Chevy just released lease program details!

[bren]

and they SUCK!!! GM is NOT passing on the $7.5K federal tax credit as lease cash that all other manufacturers do. They are instead offering a paltry $2.5K of lease cash. Even with the inflated residual of 61% for 10k miles/yr (60% for 12k and 58% for 15K), that still works out to $309 a month for the LT with 2,500 down (3,686 drive-off in CA).
Yes we can still get the CA 2,500 rebate, but $1,186 down (effective) with $309 a month for the LT and close to $400/month for the Premier with fast charging is a deal breaker for many of us.

 

[Michael1]

Where are you getting these lease details?

The CA EV credit is $2500 only for low income. It drops to $1500 after that, and then $0 for increasing incomes.

Michael

 

[DucRider]

and they SUCK!!! GM is NOT passing on the $7.5K federal tax credit as lease cash that all other manufacturers do. They are instead offering a paltry $2.5K of lease cash. Even with the inflated residual of 61% for 10k miles/yr (60% for 12k and 58% for 15K), that still works out to $309 a month for the LT with 2,500 down (3,686 drive-off in CA).
Yes we can still get the CA 2,500 rebate, but $1,186 down (effective) with $309 a month for the LT and close to $400/month for the Premier with fast charging is a deal breaker for many of us.

Reality is you are "using" about $385/month in depreciation alone.
A realistic residual is likely somewhere around 43%
$37,495 * .43 = $16,123 residual
$29,995 (after $7500 tax credit) - $16,123 = $13,872 depreciation (or value that you have used)
$13,872/36 months = $385 a month.

That's without any rent (interest) charges.

A 3rd party LT lease payment (passing on the full $7500 tax credit) would likely be about $459/m (43% residual, $0 drive off, .00125 Money Factor) GM is subsidizing the lease with:
a) below market interest rate (worth about $1,260)
b) about $6,400 in inflated residual value
c) $2,500 of Cap Cost Reduction
Total subsidy = $2660 (1260+6400+2500-7500)

So they are giving those leasing the Bolt ~$2,660 not available to cash buyers. There might (or likely will) be better deals later, but that's not bad on a new vehicle with high demand.

 

[roundpeg]

The CA EV credit is $2500 only for low income. It drops to $1500 after that, and then $0 for increasing incomes.

Is $150k as a single filer and $300k for joint filers a low income in your book?

The rebate goes higher than $2,500 for low income families now.

 

[bren]

Where are you getting these lease details?

The CA EV credit is $2500 only for low income. It drops to $1500 after that, and then $0 for increasing incomes.

Michael

http://leasehackr.com/blog/2016/11/21/bolt-ev-lease-program-announced-309-month

$2.5K CA rebate is for families making under 300k per year. Which I assume is a big chunk of this readership.

FYI, every other manufacturer offering an EV in this price range is passing on the 7.5K federal tax credit to leases - BMW did not at first when the 2017 i3 was announced, but started doing so right before vehicles showed up in dealerships.

For Chevy to make this car a viable option country-wide, they are going to have to do better. Most EVs are leased, both because of being an emerging technology, and also because of high depreciation. Yes, they might be masking the inflated 60% residual by cutting the dealer cash, but most other mfgs are offering the 7.5K AND high residuals.

 

[oilerlord]

$1,186 down (effective) with $309 a month for the LT and close to $400/month for the Premier with fast charging is a deal breaker for many of us.

Then it's a deal breaker...find another 200 mile EV for under $400/month. Welcome to the reality that GM is under no obligation to offer a $199 lease on a $40,000 car, To DucRider's point, there is strong initial demand for the Bolt; there is no reason for GM to give them away.

 

[bren]

Reality is you are "using" about $385/month in depreciation alone.
A realistic residual is likely somewhere around 43%
$37,495 * .43 = $16,123 residual
$29,995 (after $7500 tax credit) - $16,123 = $13,872 depreciation (or value that you have used)
$13,872/36 months = $385 a month.

That's without any rent (interest) charges.

A 3rd party LT lease payment (passing on the full $7500 tax credit) would likely be about $459/m (43% residual, $0 drive off, .00125 Money Factor) GM is subsidizing the lease with:
a) below market interest rate (worth about $1,260)
b) about $6,400 in inflated residual value
c) $2,500 of Cap Cost Reduction
Total subsidy = $2660 (1260+6400+2500-7500)

So they are giving those leasing the Bolt ~$2,660 not available to cash buyers. There might (or likely will) be better deals later, but that's not bad on a new vehicle with high demand.

Your points are well taken, and would be very valid for a gasoline car. EVs are currently heavily subsidized by manufacturers, and this will not change for a while if gas prices stay where they are. If the federal tax subsidy goes away, this will make it even tougher to push EVs. For Chevy to stay competitive in the EV market, they will have to subsidize leases more. I for one, am not going to take delivery on my pre-ordered vehicle next month at these lease terms. I will hold out as long as I can to wait for a better lease program, or lease another EV with half the range for less than half the monthly cost. I will rent a car for those few days a year when I need to drive more than 100 miles in a day, as I have been doing the last 3 years while leasing a Fiat 500e (alas, they no longer offer the 12-days-a-year free car rental with leases). I am going to have to rent a car occasionally even if I get a Bolt. 238 miles range with a practically-non-existent CCS charger network is a pretty short leash.

 

[DucRider]

The CA EV credit is $2500 only for low income. It drops to $1500 after that, and then $0 for increasing incomes.

Is $150k as a single filer and $300k for joint filers a low income in your book?

The rebate goes higher than $2,500 for low income families now.

I think he was looking at the PHEV #'s, not the BEV.

 

[roundpeg]

I think he was looking at the PHEV #'s, not the BEV.

Possibly.

FWIW, the Bolt is still not on the official eligibility list for the CARB rebate.

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/eligible-vehicles

No cause to worry that it won't be by the time the car delivers to California, I suppose, but it's hard to imagine a reason for the hold up.

 

[oilerlord]

EVs are currently heavily subsidized by manufacturers

Compliance EV's are heavily subsidized by manufacturers.

For Chevy to stay competitive in the EV market, they will have to subsidize leases more. I for one, am not going to take delivery on my pre-ordered vehicle next month at these lease terms.

Offering a 238 mile EV at $37,495 is being competitive in the EV market. If you don't take delivery, rest assured, someone else will.

I will hold out as long as I can to wait for a better lease program, or lease another EV with half the range for less than half the monthly cost. I will rent a car for those few days a year when I need to drive more than 100 miles in a day, as I have been doing the last 3 years

Sounds like a plan. In three years, the Tesla Model 3 may start shipping. At that point, you may find the cheap Bolt lease you're looking for.

 

[roundpeg]

Then it's a deal breaker...find another 200 mile EV for under $400/month. Welcome to the reality that GM is under no obligation to offer a $199 lease on a $40,000 car, To DucRider's point, there is strong initial demand for the Bolt; there is no reason for GM to give them away.

I've been saying this exact thing for at least a month. Seems it's finally finding an amen corner now that the actual lease terms are leaking out, and lo and behold, GM is not subsidizing this car right out of the gate. What a shock, they are in the business of making money. If you want to own one of the first of any new in-demand model, you are going to pay full freight, sometimes more. If you are prepared to wait for months or maybe years, you might get a discount, or a discount disguised as favorable lease terms. I see my local Chevy dealer is advertising Suburbans for $10k off sticker. I guess that's a great deal, if you want to own a Suburban.

 

[gpsman]

 

[bren]

Here are the actual BOLT lease program numbers leaked:
$2,500 CCR incentive from GM Financial (CA and OR only)
Residual Values (36 Months)
Trim 10,000/12,000/15,000 Miles/Year
Bolt EV LT 61%/ 60% /58%
Bolt EV Premier 60% 58% 57%
Rates
Credit Tier Money Factor/Interest Rate Equivalent
Tier A+ and A1 .00050/1.20% APR
Tier A2 .00133/3.19% APR
Tier A3 .00217/5.21% APR

Based on these numbers I calculate a monthly payment incl. tax of $375 for the LT (at MSRP 37,495), and $444 for the Premier with fast charging option (@MSRP 41,750). These are with a $2,500 drive-off (net $0 with CA CARB rebate).
These numbers are based on 10K miles/yr @ the A+ credit tier, license/reg fee of $420, 9% tax, Acquisition fee $595, and $2.5K lease cash from GM.

 

[bren]

EVs are currently heavily subsidized by manufacturers

Compliance EV's are heavily subsidized by manufacturers.

Why are the giving the $2.5K CCR incentive only in CA and OR?

 

[DucRider]

Why are the giving the $2.5K CCR incentive only in CA and OR?

That's currently the only place the car is available.

 

[roundpeg]

A couple of things are not quite right with these figures. If the post on leasehackr is correct, the current residuals for a 36 month lease are 57-58%, and no lease cash is being offered.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55fdc875e4b0ef39e07200ed/t/583467e8b8a79bd50fc6d923/1479829480783/program.jpg

According to the post, the numbers were current as of Monday. Making these adjustments, payments start at $508 if you claim the federal tax credit yourself. Obviously a lot less if you sign it over the leasing company.

 

[DucRider]

A couple of things are not quite right with these figures. If the post on leasehackr is correct, the current residuals for a 36 month lease are 57-58%, and no lease cash is being offered.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55fdc875e4b0ef39e07200ed/t/583467e8b8a79bd50fc6d923/1479829480783/program.jpg

According to the post, the numbers were current as of Monday. Making these adjustments, payments start at $508 if you claim the federal tax credit yourself. Obviously a lot less if you sign it over the leasing company.

If you lease, you are not eligible to claim the federal tax credit, that belongs to the purchaser of the car (which is the leasing/finance company - in this case GM Financial). The tax credit is not transferable so no way to "sign it over" in either direction.

Those numbers are not current, there has since been a $2500 CCR (capital cost reduction) added.

They are passing along $2500 in the form of a cap cost reduction, an inflated residual to lower your payments (they could do it as a larger CCR) and a below market interest rate. The figures in one of my previous posts come out to a little over $10K, so someone leasing the car will get about $2500 in incentives not available on an outright purchase. ($10K - the $7500 tax credit).

 

[roundpeg]

Yes, I figured out that the tax credit belongs to the leasing company. So the above example to which I was responding wan't correct either. The leasehackr article also gets that wrong as they start with MSRP, apply an arbitrary discount (which at this point nobody is getting) then fail to account for the tax credit. At some point we can discuss the math of giving the tax credit to the leasing company, but that's another story.

The post on leasehackr shows no cash being offered as of Monday of this week (and the lower residual). The calculator reports both incorrectly as it does not agree with the numbers upon which they supposedly basing their calculations. This conclusion comes from following the link in the article. Where does yours come from?

 

[DucRider]

Yes, I figured out that the tax credit belongs to the leasing company. So the above example to which I was responding wan't correct either. The leasehackr article also gets that wrong as they start with MSRP, apply an arbitrary discount (which at this point nobody is getting) then fail to account for the tax credit. At some point we can discuss the math of giving the tax credit to the leasing company, but that's another story.

The post on leasehackr shows no cash being offered as of Monday of this week (and the lower residual). The calculator reports both incorrectly as it does not agree with the numbers upon which they supposedly basing their calculations. This conclusion comes from following the link in the article. Where does yours come from?

Bottom line is on all manufacturer advertised lease deals ($99/m or whatever), the fine print says (among other things):

Example based on survey. Each dealer sets own price. Your payments may vary. .... Option to purchase at lease end for an amount to be determined at lease signing.

The deal someone else on the forum gets, what a website says is available, etc make very little difference. What your dealer is offering on the vehicle you want to buy at the time you buy it is all that really matters.

$2500 CCR from here (among other places):
http://leasehackr.com/blog/2016/11/21/bolt-ev-lease-program-announced-309-month

The Lease Program

The cost of leasing a particular car is determined by its lease program, which is set by the manufacturer, and the selling price, which is set by the dealer. Here is GM Financial's lease program for 2017 Bolt EV through the end of this year:
Residual Values (36 Months)
Trim 10,000 Miles/Year 12,000 Miles/Year 15,000 Miles/Year
Bolt EV LT 61% 60% 58%
Bolt EV Premier 60% 58% 57%
Rates
Credit Tier Money Factor Interest Rate Equivalent
Tier A+ and A1 .00050 1.20% APR
Tier A2 .00133 3.19% APR
Tier A3 .00217 5.21% APR
As for rebates and incentives, there's a $2,500 Incremental CCR incentive through GM Financial (CA or OR only). Given how Bolt EV qualifies for the full $7,500 federal tax credit, we frankly expected the CCR to be higher. But it looks like GM is passing only a fraction of that amount to lessees -- and using the rest to inflate the residuals (which also lowers the payment).

I don't care whether they show the entire $7500 as a CCR or bump the residual. The end result is the same - lower monthly payments.

All this information is helpful when sitting down with the dealer to negotiate my deal, but if your not truly willing to walk away from the deal, you can never get the best price. I know what I'm willing to pay. We'll either come to a figure that is acceptable to both of us, or I'll wait till they are more plentiful. If I extend my Fit EV lease, it is month to month - I can turn it in at any time with no penalty.

With the additional "discount" offered on a lease that is not available on a purchase, I'll be looking to lease. If I want to keep the car at the end of the lease, I'll offer fair market value. If they don't take it, there will be other used examples available (plus new 200+ mile options by that time). I find it highly unlikely that a 3 year old Bolt LT with 36K miles will be worth $22,497 (60% of MSRP). I'll take the artificially low interest rate and lease payments, and let GM Financial eat the depreciation while I delay my purchase.

 

[michael]

Where are you getting these lease details?

The CA EV credit is $2500 only for low income. It drops to $1500 after that, and then $0 for increasing incomes.

Michael

That's not correct. 2500 is normal on an EV...1500 was for Volt. Goes up or down from there for low or high incomes

Above 150K single, 300K joint, ineligible

Below some level, $2000 bonus.