Chevy just released lease program details!

[NeilBlanchard]

The thing about leasing a Bolt EV is that you are almost always going to buy it at the end of the lease.

The reason I say this is, why would you take even a 15K/yr lease on a ~238 mile EV, unless you want to drive it more than ~41 miles / day? The only way you would need 238 miles per TRIP - but stay below 15K miles per year - is if you drive it on 63 trips of ~238 miles each. And left it sitting still 302 days of the year.

 

[roundpeg]

If you are talking strictly of a commuter case, then you'd be right, but not everyone is a commuter. My average daily use will probably be 15-20 miles a day, because I don't drive out of town every day (or drive anywhere at all, some days). But when I do make out of town trips, it is often to destinations 50 miles or more from home. My economic case for owning an EV are admittedly pretty marginal, but I like the tech and the idea of not burning the petrol, and if the car meets my needs I will keep it at least five years, quite possibly, ten. This makes leasing one a pretty uninteresting proposition, even though if not especially because I don't commute.

 

[michael]

The thing about leasing a Bolt EV is that you are almost always going to buy it at the end of the lease.

The reason I say this is, why would you take even a 15K/yr lease on a ~238 mile EV, unless you want to drive it more than ~41 miles / day? The only way you would need 238 miles per TRIP - but stay below 15K miles per year - is if you drive it on 63 trips of ~238 miles each. And left it sitting still 302 days of the year.

I wouldn't assume that. Almost zero chance I would buy it at end of lease. I will replace it with whatever is best three years from now.

I will select mileage to properly reflect amount that I will use the car over the three years.

The reason for a 238 mile car is not because you expect to drive it that distance every time you take it out, but rather so you CAN drive that distance when necessary, something an 80 mile car cannot do.

And it also illustrates why the Volt is such a good concept. It is an EV on your 40-mile days, but whenever you have a longer trip, the engine is always there.

But I do agree, if you knew for sure you'd never need more than 40-ish miles, a Leaf, Focus Electric, or any of the 80-mile class cars would be far less expensive than a Bolt.

 

[devbolt]

I'm in a quandry about leasing versus buying (loan) as well. I like the idea of leasing because if something better comes along in 3 years, I'm not stuck with a lesser performing car for another 2 or 3 years. Or if there is some sort of battery problem 2.5 years in. Lower payments than a typical 5-year 100% financed loan, and for less time, too.

However, my daily commute is 96 miles roundtrip. That pencils out to over 23K miles a year (taking into account vacations where I don't drive the car, etc). I don't think they can write a lease that will cover that amount of mileage, which is why I've never leased a car. And 25 cents a mile over the limit will cost me roughly an extra $166 per month over the 3 year period. That takes the lease from ~$520 a month (including taxes) to ~$686 per month. At that point it's spitting distance for a loan, especially when I take the federal tax credit & the CVRP, and apply to the loan principal to bring down the monthly payments.

We typically keep our cars for a minimum of 6 years, some as long as 12. So the idea of trading in/up in 3 years doesn't really factor into our decision making. Except that it's an EV, and the pace of development is rather rapid right now, so being locked into a lesser range/capable car isn't as attractive. I'm not likely to dump the Bolt for a Model 3 when they become more readily available because I don't like sedans. I prefer hatchbacks, and small/medium SUV/CUVs these days. Last time I owned a sedan was over 20 years ago. So there's that, too.

I have financing from my Credit Union already lined up at a good interest rate, so I'll be able to get the car no matter what. Just a matter of what makes the most sense financially...

 

[michael]

I'm in a quandry about leasing versus buying (loan) as well. I like the idea of leasing because if something better comes along in 3 years, I'm not stuck with a lesser performing car for another 2 or 3 years. Or if there is some sort of battery problem 2.5 years in. Lower payments than a typical 5-year 100% financed loan, and for less time, too.

However, my daily commute is 96 miles roundtrip. That pencils out to over 23K miles a year (taking into account vacations where I don't drive the car, etc). I don't think they can write a lease that will cover that amount of mileage, which is why I've never leased a car. And 25 cents a mile over the limit will cost me roughly an extra $166 per month over the 3 year period. That takes the lease from ~$520 a month (including taxes) to ~$686 per month. At that point it's spitting distance for a loan, especially when I take the federal tax credit & the CVRP, and apply to the loan principal to bring down the monthly payments.

We typically keep our cars for a minimum of 6 years, some as long as 12. So the idea of trading in/up in 3 years doesn't really factor into our decision making. Except that it's an EV, and the pace of development is rather rapid right now, so being locked into a lesser range/capable car isn't as attractive. I'm not likely to dump the Bolt for a Model 3 when they become more readily available because I don't like sedans. I prefer hatchbacks, and small/medium SUV/CUVs these days. Last time I owned a sedan was over 20 years ago. So there's that, too.

I have financing from my Credit Union already lined up at a good interest rate, so I'll be able to get the car no matter what. Just a matter of what makes the most sense financially...

A big argument in favor of leasing an EV is obsolescence and battery fade. You don't need to be too much worried about battery failure, since that's under warranty. But fade generally is not.

I put 54,000 miles on my leased Focus Electric but Ford Credit is very flexible in their lease mileage options...I got a 19,500 mile/year lease. I haven't heard of similar flexibility from GM.

I will handle this issue on my Bolt by getting 15,000 mile leases on my Bolt and my wife's Volt. She could do fine on a 10,000 mile lease. Between us, we will have 30,000. We will just swap cars as necessary to keep both within their limits.

 

[devbolt]

I'm in a quandry about leasing versus buying (loan) as well. I like the idea of leasing because if something better comes along in 3 years, I'm not stuck with a lesser performing car for another 2 or 3 years. Or if there is some sort of battery problem 2.5 years in. Lower payments than a typical 5-year 100% financed loan, and for less time, too.

However, my daily commute is 96 miles roundtrip. That pencils out to over 23K miles a year (taking into account vacations where I don't drive the car, etc). I don't think they can write a lease that will cover that amount of mileage, which is why I've never leased a car. And 25 cents a mile over the limit will cost me roughly an extra $166 per month over the 3 year period. That takes the lease from ~$520 a month (including taxes) to ~$686 per month. At that point it's spitting distance for a loan, especially when I take the federal tax credit & the CVRP, and apply to the loan principal to bring down the monthly payments.

<span>We typically keep our cars for a minimum of 6 years, some as long as 12. So the idea of trading in/up in 3 years doesn't really factor into our decision making. Except that it's an EV, and the pace of development is rather rapid right now, so being locked into a lesser range/capable car isn't as attractive. I'm not likely to dump the Bolt for a <a href="http://www.myelectriccarforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=67" class="interlinkr">Model 3<span class="tip">Visit the Model 3 Forum</span></a> when they become more readily available because I don't like sedans. I prefer hatchbacks, and small/medium SUV/CUVs these days. Last time I owned a sedan was over 20 years ago. So there's that, too.</span>

I have financing from my Credit Union already lined up at a good interest rate, so I'll be able to get the car no matter what. Just a matter of what makes the most sense financially...

A big argument in favor of leasing an EV is obsolescence and battery fade. You don't need to be too much worried about battery failure, since that's under warranty. But fade generally is not.

<span>I put 54,000 miles on my leased <a href="http://www.myfocuselectric.com" class="interlinkr">Focus Electric<span class="tip">Visit the Focus Electric Forum</span></a> but Ford Credit is very flexible in their lease mileage options...I got a 19,500 mile/year lease. I haven't heard of similar flexibility from GM.</span>

I will handle this issue on my Bolt by getting 15,000 mile leases on my Bolt and my wife's Volt. She could do fine on a 10,000 mile lease. Between us, we will have 30,000. We will just swap cars as necessary to keep both within their limits.

Yeah, obsolescence and battery fade are my biggest concerns and why a lease makes a certain amount of sense. But only if the monthly payments make sense. Otherwise I'll just buy the car outright and drive it into the ground...

 

[roundpeg]

The advances in EVs over the last few years are not in the batteries, either in terms of weight or efficiency, but in cost. Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I believe the battery manufacturing costs have fallen by about half over the last two years or so, and are continuing to decline, and no new battery technologies are on the immediate horizon.

Bringing this up for two reasons: (1) It will be difficult for any manufacturer over the next few years to beat the Bolt's range by much, without significantly increasing the car's size and weight; and (2), the cost of replacing your battery packs in the fairly distant future is likely to be much less than it would cost today.

So again feel free to correct me if I missed something, but it certainly appears as if the Bolt represents something of a technology plateau for now. To me this suggests that the car might not be something you will be so anxious to replace in three years with the latest and greatest, since the latest and greatest then might look a lot like the Bolt now, at least in terms of battery performance. Battery pack replacement anxiety might also be overstated.

 

[DucRider]

The advances in EVs over the last few years are not in the batteries, either in terms of weight or efficiency, but in cost. Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I believe the battery manufacturing costs have fallen by about half over the last two years or so, and are continuing to decline, and no new battery technologies are on the immediate horizon.

Bringing this up for two reasons: (1) It will be difficult for any manufacturer over the next few years to beat the Bolt's range by much, without significantly increasing the car's size and weight; and (2), the cost of replacing your battery packs in the fairly distant future is likely to be much less than it would cost today.

So again feel free to correct me if I missed something, but it certainly appears as if the Bolt represents something of a technology plateau for now. To me this suggests that the car might not be something you will be so anxious to replace in three years with the latest and greatest, since the latest and greatest then might look a lot like the Bolt now, at least in terms of battery performance. Battery pack replacement anxiety might also be overstated.

Battery energy density (weight) has improved dramatically (Wh/kg), and is one of the factors in the reduced cost of the cells that make up the battery pack.

The Bolt likely has, for the moment, one of the most advanced batteries in mass market BEV's. The Tesla 2170 for the Model 3 in still an unknown quantity, and a different approach with it's cylindrical format. But I think it is a stretch to say that the Bolt battery represents a plateau. It would be a fairly safe bet that much better batteries will be available in 3 years (lighter/cheaper/better degradation resistance/more thermal tolerance/higher C rates/energy density/etc). The definition of "better" will contain a mix of all the previous, and different cars/applications will have a different "better".

 

[bren]

Inflated residuals LOWER your lease interest (and sales tax in CA) not raise it. You payment is based on depreciation over the lease term.

You are also paying interest on the entire residual amount over the entire lease term. Since the financing company is, in effect, loaning you the residual amount until the end of the lease.

Cheers, Wayne

Thanks for the correction. I was indeed wrong.

 

[roundpeg]

The Bolt likely has, for the moment, one of the most advanced batteries in mass market BEV's. The Tesla 2170 for the Model 3 in still an unknown quantity, and a different approach with it's cylindrical format. But I think it is a stretch to say that the Bolt battery represents a plateau. It would be a fairly safe bet that much better batteries will be available in 3 years (lighter/cheaper/better degradation resistance/more thermal tolerance/higher C rates/energy density/etc). The definition of "better" will contain a mix of all the previous, and different cars/applications will have a different "better".

Thanks for the info. Good overview articles on battery technologies are hard to find. What you do find are lots of claims of the next big thing being right around the corner. A good many of those claims are already several years old. They all look so promising, and they just keep on promising.

In terms of basic battery chemistry, it seems little is expected to change for at least ten years. That does not discount the marginal improvements that will no doubt be made but at this point a Li-on killer has not emerged from the labs. When one finally does, it will have to achieve the same economies of manufacturing scale now being achieved by Li-on. If another 10% of energy storage could be squeezed out of the same weight and cost of the battery pack in the Bolt that would be an accomplishment, but not of the same magnitude the as doubling of range at a marketable cost that we're seeing with the Bolt (and others forthcoming). So perhaps calling it a plateau is going a bit too far -- but how much I wonder? In 2018 or '19 are Bolt owners going to feel like 2014 Leaf owners today?

I thought this was interesting:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098218_is-the-elusive-ideal-electric-car-battery-hiding-in-plain-sight

 

[adamsocb]

Here is a lease calculator updated with the leasehackr.com data.

http://www.projectcba.com/2017_bolt/2017 Bolt EV Lease Only Calculator leasehackr data.xlsx

Feel free to play around with it. It seems the calculator Chevrolet.com had up for a short time earlier in the week produced slightly lower payments than the leasehackr.com information, perhaps higher residual or lower money factor. As we all know, only a real lease contract from a dealer will matter.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Where are you getting these lease details?

The CA EV credit is $2500 only for low income. It drops to $1500 after that, and then $0 for increasing incomes.

Michael

That must be new because when I got my Spark EV, getting the $2500 back had nothing to do with income. That was a state check cut to me. The federal $7500 credit is something different that didn't even apply to me as I was leasing. The dealer applied the full amount to the car's price.

 

[michael]

The post above was in error. $2500 is the normal rebate. Very high income people don't get it now, however. And very low income people can get more. Most get the $2500 still.

 

[ssspinball]

From these discussions on leasing I gather a few things. One is that some folks have never had the experience of owning a car free and clear, so for them, the goal is manageable payments. For others such as myself who've never had a car payment (recognizing that I am in probably a small minority) the object is buying the car you want to own at a price you can afford.

100% wrong. Like some other posters I've never leased a car before I switched to an EV. You are still missing the many clearly laid out examples where is SAVES MONEY to lease an EV vs purchase, given all the current variables in play.

The advances in EVs over the last few years are not in the batteries, either in terms of weight or efficiency, but in cost.

:roll: The increases in weight and efficiency have been tremendous!

So again feel free to correct me if I missed something, but it certainly appears as if the Bolt represents something of a technology plateau for now. To me this suggests that the car might not be something you will be so anxious to replace in three years with the latest and greatest, since the latest and greatest then might look a lot like the Bolt now, at least in terms of battery performance. Battery pack replacement anxiety might also be overstated.

Plateau--are you serious?! Car technology is changing the fastest it has since the Model-T. There are cars on the road TODAY that drive themselves and the Bolt doesn't even have basic active cruise.

 

[adamsocb]

I just checked the Chevrolet.com web site and the Bolt "Build and Price" and lease calculator are both working again. It appears they may have sweetened the pot again with a higher residual, larger cap reduction rebate, lower money factor, or a combination of all three.

There is also a lease on the Chevy "Offers" page that gets a base bolt to $359/month, $1099 drive-off, + taxes and fees. 36 months, 45,000 miles. This would equate to a $4000 cap reduction rebate with a 58% residual and a money factor of 0.0005.

Does anyone have an actual executed lease agreement yet?

 

[JupiterMoon]

From these discussions on leasing I gather a few things. One is that some folks have never had the experience of owning a car free and clear, so for them, the goal is manageable payments. For others such as myself who've never had a car payment (recognizing that I am in probably a small minority) the object is buying the car you want to own at a price you can afford.

100% wrong. Like some other posters I've never leased a car before I switched to an EV. You are still missing the many clearly laid out examples where is SAVES MONEY to lease an EV vs purchase, given all the current variables in play.

The advances in EVs over the last few years are not in the batteries, either in terms of weight or efficiency, but in cost.

:roll: The increases in weight and efficiency have been tremendous!

So again feel free to correct me if I missed something, but it certainly appears as if the Bolt represents something of a technology plateau for now. To me this suggests that the car might not be something you will be so anxious to replace in three years with the latest and greatest, since the latest and greatest then might look a lot like the Bolt now, at least in terms of battery performance. Battery pack replacement anxiety might also be overstated.

Plateau--are you serious?! Car technology is changing the fastest it has since the Model-T. There are cars on the road TODAY that drive themselves and the Bolt doesn't even have basic active cruise.

The only thing that will cause a plateau is the new administration's policies...maybe in a cave in. Other than that, if things continue how they are, in three years we should be driving affordable 275-300 mile EVs or 200 mile EVs with blistering performance.

 

[WetEV]

The only thing that will cause a plateau is the new administration's policies...

Only in the USA. The rest of the world can and will progress on their own. China is the world's largest EV market. We can give China ownership of the future EV market by killing the US electric cars.

 

[JupiterMoon]

The only thing that will cause a plateau is the new administration's policies...

Only in the USA. The rest of the world can and will progress on their own. China is the world's largest EV market. We can give China ownership of the future EV market by killing the US electric cars.

Yes I was implying the US....which is standing still compared to the rest of the world.

 

[OrangeCountyCarl]

I just checked the Chevrolet.com web site and the Bolt "Build and Price" and lease calculator are both working again. It appears they may have sweetened the pot again with a higher residual, larger cap reduction rebate, lower money factor, or a combination of all three.

There is also a lease on the Chevy "Offers" page that gets a base bolt to $359/month, $1099 drive-off, + taxes and fees. 36 months, 45,000 miles. This would equate to a $4000 cap reduction rebate with a 58% residual and a money factor of 0.0005.

Does anyone have an actual executed lease agreement yet?

Isn't a lease quote based on zip code?

I just went through the Build & Price for an Arctic Blue basic no options Bolt for an MSRP of $37,495 and the lease offer shows $277 for a 10k/year lease.

I leased my Spark EV in October, 2013 and only have 20,428 miles. I expect I will get the 10k/year lease.

Also I leased my Spark EV because, at the time, I wondered what electric cars would be like in 3 years. Further, if there were advances, such as we have seen with the Bolt, I did not want to try to sell my Spark EV against those AND try to make up the difference between purchasing vs leasing. Glad I leased. Look forward to leasing again for 3 years. I wonder what EV choices we will have in January, 2020.

 

[SparkE]

I just checked the Chevrolet.com web site and the Bolt "Build and Price" and lease calculator are both working again. It appears they may have sweetened the pot again with a higher residual, larger cap reduction rebate, lower money factor, or a combination of all three.

There is also a lease on the Chevy "Offers" page that gets a base bolt to $359/month, $1099 drive-off, + taxes and fees. 36 months, 45,000 miles. This would equate to a $4000 cap reduction rebate with a 58% residual and a money factor of 0.0005.

Does anyone have an actual executed lease agreement yet?

Isn't a lease quote based on zip code?

I just went through the Build & Price for an Arctic Blue basic no options Bolt for an MSRP of $37,495 and the lease offer shows $277 for a 10k/year lease.

I leased my Spark EV in October, 2013 and only have 20,428 miles. I expect I will get the 10k/year lease.

Also I leased my Spark EV because, at the time, I wondered what electric cars would be like in 3 years. Further, if there were advances, such as we have seen with the Bolt, I did not want to try to sell my Spark EV against those AND try to make up the difference between purchasing vs leasing. Glad I leased. Look forward to leasing again for 3 years. I wonder what EV choices we will have in January, 2020.

I just did the same - I'm assuming that you didn't look closely at the lease details, since I had to make a down payment of close to 3600 to get that price. When I set down payment to $0, the monthly cost changed to $383 (36 mo & 10k mi/yr). That's a total of almost $14K over 3 years (and will probably be over 14k with all the misc fees).

Personally, I think I'll let somebody else eat the 40-60% depreciation for those first 3 years and buy used instead (after the feediing frenzy is over). Now if I could expense it to a business, I'd get one in a flash.