Hyundai will annonce Ioniq EV for U.S. market

[LeftieBiker]

It has to be to compete with the Bolt with almost twice the range. That's the effect that the Bolt is having on the EV marketplace - not only is it bringing greater range at a similar price, it's also driving down the price of lesser-ranged cars. You can already see it in LEAF prices.

No, not yet. The cheap Leafs are the leftover 2016 cars, and even they vary a lot by region. A lease for a 2017 Leaf currently sits at around $405 a month, and purchase price is unchanged.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

It has to be to compete with the Bolt with almost twice the range. That's the effect that the Bolt is having on the EV marketplace - not only is it bringing greater range at a similar price, it's also driving down the price of lesser-ranged cars. You can already see it in LEAF prices.

No, not yet. The cheap Leafs are the leftover 2016 cars, and even they vary a lot by region. A lease for a 2017 Leaf currently sits at around $405 a month, and purchase price is unchanged.

:shock:

And people are paying that? I mean, I guess if you can't wait up to 6 months for a Bolt to arrive in your area (or have been living under a rock and don't know about the Bolt)...

 

[SparkE]

It has to be to compete with the Bolt with almost twice the range. That's the effect that the Bolt is having on the EV marketplace - not only is it bringing greater range at a similar price, it's also driving down the price of lesser-ranged cars. You can already see it in LEAF prices.

No, not yet. The cheap Leafs are the leftover 2016 cars, and even they vary a lot by region. A lease for a 2017 Leaf currently sits at around $405 a month, and purchase price is unchanged.

I am shocked to read "around $400/mo". At that price, their sales are going to plummet (leases are sales for Nissan, sold to finance companies/banks).

 

[sgt1372]

The new "standard" for EVs is a min 200 mile range. At the moment, the Bolt is the ONLY EV that can meet this standard. It's available in CA, OR, WA, MD, MA and VA now and will be available to order in all states by July.

Tesla will be the only other EV with that range available when it's released, which will not be until late this year or early 2018 at the earliest.

Frankly, I don't know why Hyundai would even release the Iconiq knowing this to be the case. It's already obsolete. Also don't understand how BMW or Nissan can sell the i3 or Leaf charging as much as or more than the cost of a Bolt but w/less than 1/2 of the range of the Bolt. Makes no sense to me.

I'm not saying that the Bolt is the best EV available but it is currently the only one w/200+ range and, if range is the issue, there is currently no other choice but to buy/lease a Bolt.

 

[phil0909]

The new "standard" for EVs is a min 200 mile range. At the moment, the Bolt is the ONLY EV that can meet this standard.

Tesla has been selling 200+mile EVs for the past seven years, and continues to do so.

 

[sgt1372]

Tesla has been selling 200+mile EVs for the past seven years, and continues to do so.

Of course that's true but not in a price range comparable w/the Bolt, Leaf, etc. In the $40k range which was the comparison that I was makibg.

That won't happen for Tesla til the M3 comes out and even the speculation is that a fully loaded M3 will cost much more.

I just need to remember to more carefully draft my posts to avoid the need for further commebtary.

 

[mtndrew1]

The new "standard" for EVs is a min 200 mile range. At the moment, the Bolt is the ONLY EV that can meet this standard. It's available in CA, OR, WA, MD, MA and VA now and will be available to order in all states by July.

Tesla will be the only other EV with that range available when it's released, which will not be until late this year or early 2018 at the earliest.

Frankly, I don't know why Hyundai would even release the Iconiq knowing this to be the case. It's already obsolete. Also don't understand how BMW or Nissan can sell the i3 or Leaf charging as much as or more than the cost of a Bolt but w/less than 1/2 of the range of the Bolt. Makes no sense to me.

I'm not saying that the Bolt is the best EV available but it is currently the only one w/200+ range and, if range is the issue, there is currently no other choice but to buy/lease a Bolt.

My current BEV has a 93 mile EPA range and is my only car. I've done 37,000 miles in it without range issues.

The Ioniq would give me 33% more range and 10% more power for a lower MSRP and likely a lower monthly payment. It also has standard or available: a heat pump, homelink, power seats, memory seats, power folding mirrors, an Apple Watch app, adaptive radar cruise control with stop&go, standard quick charge, sunroof, ventilated seats (of a conventional design), auto brake hold, rear A/C vents, approach puddle lamps, etc.

For someone like me the jump to a Bolt to get fewer features and uncomfortable seats for a nearly 30% increase in price may not make sense. Of course 200+ miles is the bogey at this point and the Bolt is the only game in town today if that's the primary purchase concern, but there's a market for a car like the Ioniq at that price. Those of us who have been living with a sub-100 mile BEV (Leafs, eGolfs, Souls, Focus EVs, 500es etc.) for years are likely to be fine with the jump to 124 miles of EPA range, particularly with a heat pump and fast charging included as standard.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It has to be to compete with the Bolt with almost twice the range. That's the effect that the Bolt is having on the EV marketplace - not only is it bringing greater range at a similar price, it's also driving down the price of lesser-ranged cars. You can already see it in LEAF prices.

No, not yet. The cheap Leafs are the leftover 2016 cars, and even they vary a lot by region. A lease for a 2017 Leaf currently sits at around $405 a month, and purchase price is unchanged.

I am shocked to read "around $400/mo". At that price, their sales are going to plummet (leases are sales for Nissan, sold to finance companies/banks).

Sales are not good, and most dealers in my area aren't even stocking the 2017 Leaf. I expect them to go on sale by Memorial Day weekend, though, and one of those for $300 a month will hopefully be one of my options if I don't lease a 2016 before then. It wouldn't be just $100-200+ a month less than a Bolt. It would also mean leasing a car with a $12k residual that I could buy later if I loved it.

 

[Phximiev]

No, not yet. The cheap Leafs are the leftover 2016 cars, and even they vary a lot by region. A lease for a 2017 Leaf currently sits at around $405 a month, and purchase price is unchanged.

I am shocked to read "around $400/mo". At that price, their sales are going to plummet (leases are sales for Nissan, sold to finance companies/banks).

Sales are not good, and most dealers in my area aren't even stocking the 2017 Leaf. I expect them to go on sale by Memorial Day weekend, though, and one of those for $300 a month will hopefully be one of my options if I don't lease a 2016 before then. It wouldn't be just $100-200+ a month less than a Bolt. It would also mean leasing a car with a $12k residual that I could buy later if I loved it.

Try $19 per month for a 2017 Leaf S with 30 kWh pack:

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3263&p=31911#p31902

 

[Nagorak]

I am shocked to read "around $400/mo". At that price, their sales are going to plummet (leases are sales for Nissan, sold to finance companies/banks).

Sales are not good, and most dealers in my area aren't even stocking the 2017 Leaf. I expect them to go on sale by Memorial Day weekend, though, and one of those for $300 a month will hopefully be one of my options if I don't lease a 2016 before then. It wouldn't be just $100-200+ a month less than a Bolt. It would also mean leasing a car with a $12k residual that I could buy later if I loved it.

Try $19 per month for a 2017 Leaf S with 30 kWh pack:

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3263&p=31911#p31902

That is a crazy price. Honestly, at that price I'm almost tempted myself. It's well less than $6000 total for a three year lease. But I already have a 2013 Leaf that works perfectly fine, and don't really need another one. That's not even including the $2500 CA rebate. That is incredibly, incredibly cheap.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The Leaf S would not work well in my climate, with its resistance-only heat. My Winter range with a 30kwh S would be about the same, in 30-50F weather, as the range with my heatpump-equipped 2013 SV when it was about a year old. Also, that $19 a month is because of $4k down and some hefty extra discounts and subsidies.

 

[oilerlord]

My current BEV has a 93 mile EPA range and is my only car. I've done 37,000 miles in it without range issues.

The Ioniq would give me 33% more range and 10% more power for a lower MSRP and likely a lower monthly payment. It also has standard or available: a heat pump, homelink, power seats, memory seats, power folding mirrors, an Apple Watch app, adaptive radar cruise control with stop&go, standard quick charge, sunroof, ventilated seats (of a conventional design), auto brake hold, rear A/C vents, approach puddle lamps, etc.

For someone like me the jump to a Bolt to get fewer features and uncomfortable seats for a nearly 30% increase in price may not make sense. Of course 200+ miles is the bogey at this point and the Bolt is the only game in town today if that's the primary purchase concern, but there's a market for a car like the Ioniq at that price. Those of us who have been living with a sub-100 mile BEV (Leafs, eGolfs, Souls, Focus EVs, 500es etc.) for years are likely to be fine with the jump to 124 miles of EPA range, particularly with a heat pump and fast charging included as standard.

Me too.

I'm not disputing that 200+ miles of range is a nice to have, but some of us tend to forget that the rest of the car matters too. It's interesting that those that call the 124 mile Ioniq "already obsolete" have a hybrid (or other unlimited range) car in their garage for the 1% of the time they actually need to do that 200 mile trip. Personally, If I was willing to accept the compromise of having to always fold down the rear seats to carry my stuff around - I'd buy a used Spark EV or a Fiat 500e in a heartbeat. To me, 200 miles of range is the only thing the Bolt has going for it. It has a big battery, but the rest of the car is still a small econobox with a hard plastic interior, tiny trunk and seats that are too narrow. No way, would I spend $40K on one.

I like that the Ioniq doesn't scream "EV". It looks to have a more upscale interior, more cargo room in an overall larger and attractive package that the masses would prefer. The Ioniq also has a heat pump that the Bolt doesn't. For me, I'd rather pay for the range I'm going to use rather than for the range I won't. Hyundai got it right.

 

[Nagorak]

The Leaf S would not work well in my climate, with its resistance-only heat. My Winter range with a 30kwh S would be about the same, in 30-50F weather, as the range with my heatpump-equipped 2013 SV when it was about a year old. Also, that $19 a month is because of $4k down and some hefty extra discounts and subsidies.

Yeah but the monthly payment is so low that it's negligible. You're practically paying the 4k plus tax but -2.5k.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The Leaf S would not work well in my climate, with its resistance-only heat. My Winter range with a 30kwh S would be about the same, in 30-50F weather, as the range with my heatpump-equipped 2013 SV when it was about a year old. Also, that $19 a month is because of $4k down and some hefty extra discounts and subsidies.

Yeah but the monthly payment is so low that it's negligible. You're practically paying the 4k plus tax but -2.5k.

Nonetheless, I see no need to 'downgrade my ride' just to get a lower lease payment than $159.

 

[Nagorak]

The Leaf S would not work well in my climate, with its resistance-only heat. My Winter range with a 30kwh S would be about the same, in 30-50F weather, as the range with my heatpump-equipped 2013 SV when it was about a year old. Also, that $19 a month is because of $4k down and some hefty extra discounts and subsidies.

Yeah but the monthly payment is so low that it's negligible. You're practically paying the 4k plus tax but -2.5k.

Nonetheless, I see no need to 'downgrade my ride' just to get a lower lease payment than $159.

True, all told it comes out to be $130/month before tax, or maybe $141 after tax, so it's not that great. The CA rebate is for any EV so that's beside the point. I'll hold out for the Ioniq myself, even if I have to pay a few more $$$.

 

[oilerlord]

It has to be to compete with the Bolt with almost twice the range.

No it doesn't, and again, all-electric range isn't the be-all end-all. The rest of the car matters. On the contrary, it's the Bolt that would be in tough competing with the more affordable Ioniq. SparkE is looking at the PHEV, and to his point he recognizes the fact he only needs 30 miles of all-electric range most of the time - which is typical.

The "game-changer" is that moment when people realize they don't need 240 miles of all-electric range when 99% of the time - they have no use for it.

 

[WetEV]

No it doesn't, and again, all-electric range isn't the be-all end-all. The rest of the car matters.

+1

One reason why I like the Leaf is the seats are very comfortable, at least for me. I'm saddened that the Bolt might be completely unacceptable in terms of seating comfort.

Some parts of the Bolt are less than opt imal, but probably not show stoppers for me or most people. No heat pump. CCS rather than Chademo. Lack of Nav. Charging door on the side rather than the front.

Some parts of the Bolt are better than the competition, but that's because the competition isn't doing great. Leaf's exterior looks.

Other than range, is there anything that makes the Bolt stand out?

 

[SparkE]

Other than range, is there anything that makes the Bolt stand out?

The fanboys creaming all over it? :mrgreen:

To be clear - I am thinking of replacing my "emergency ICE" with the Ioniq PHEV, instead of getting another electric and keeping the ICE. It will usually run in electric, and when we HAVE to go on a long trip (over 90 mi), then we would use that one.

I *will* wait, however, to :
- drive the Ioniq
- see what the details on the ICE are (pollution, mainly, but also mpg)

I liked the plug-in prius because it (IMHO) had the best gas engine portion for PHEVs on the market : low mpg, very low pollution (compare to the ReX in the i3, for example).

 

[sgt1372]

Didn't know there were so many Iconiq lovers here. Interesting.

We all have different needs. If you don't need the 200+ mile range of a Bolt and like the "amenities" of the Iconiq or other EV/PHEVs better, that's also fine.

The Bolt is the only EV in its price range currently available that works for me. Why?

1) It's an EV and I never have to stop at a gas station in it, except to buy drinks/snacks. I didn't lease it to save the planet. I leased it to avoid the inconvenience of needing to constantly go to the gas station to refill the tank in the gas guzzling FJ Cruiser it replaced.

2) It has a 200+ mile range that I won't need it all of the time but when I do will get me to and from home w/o the need to stop for a charge. If I had to stop to recharge after just 70-80 miles, it would be even more inconvenient than needing to refill my FJ after a 120-160 mile drive.

3) It's the right price for me at $40k before credits/rebates that will "only" cost me $307/mo. The only other EV currently available near $40k is a used Model S, which (apart from other issues) would still cost me more than the Bolt. Also didn't want to wait for a Model 3 which I also expect to cost more. PHEVs were't an option, see reason #1 above. I've had 2 Priuses before.

4) All I needed was a small hatchback to use as my daily driver. I've got 2 other cars & a truck to fulfill my other vehicular needs. The firm seat and limited trunk capacity is not an issue for me.

So, I chose the Bolt because its works best for me in terms of price, range and "convenience." If the Iconiq, Leaf or whatever works better for you, again, that's fine too.

 

[phil0909]

Other than range, is there anything that makes the Bolt stand out?

Yes - performance. The Bolt is a whole lot peppier than the electric Ioniq.

Aside from being as slow as molasses (and nearly as slow as a Prius!) the Ioniq looks like a nice car. But the range would also be inadequate for me. It would cover my regular commute, but any extra driving on a work day would be iffy.