Hyundai will annonce Ioniq EV for U.S. market

[michael]

My Focus Electric with liquid battery cooling was down 22% after three years and 54,000 miles. People consistently underestimate the risk of battery fade. Three years ago on the Focus Electric board people were talking about how the conservative design and cooling would result in very long battery life. Look there now...lots or people are reporting fade consistent with my experience.

In estimating "for sure" range, also allow for normal charge to be "hilltop", rather than full. Because if you charge fully all the time, I can almost guarantee 30% fade after a few years

I'm sticking by my 120 mile "send your daughter, in the cold, after a few years" estimate

 

[michael]

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Would you send your teenager out on a 180 mile trip in the winter, in a three year old Bolt, with no place to charge up enroute? I wouldn't.

Would you send them that far, in Winter, in a 10 year old crappy ICE - the kind that many, many American teenagers drive? What you are describing sounds to me like "rich peoples' problems."

What kind of irrelevant barb is that? "Rich peoples' problems"??

I would fully expect a decent 10 year old ICE to make it 180 miles in winter, A crappy $1000 car? Maybe not. Decently maintained cheap one, yes, absolutely.

You cannot compare the predictable, expected risk of running out of energy and having no place to replenish with the unanticipated and rare risk of a mechanical breakdown.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You cannot compare the predictable, expected risk of running out of energy and having no place to replenish with the unanticipated and rare risk of a mechanical breakdown.

That's right - the old ICE is riskier. Once the Bolts' effective range is known, then either it will make the trip or it won't, and you'd know before they started.

 

[michael]

As one who has logged close to 100K miles in an EV, I can tell you that's not the case.

Environmental temperature
Battery temperature at start of drive
Wind
Road conditions
Need for heating or cooling
Traffic
Uphill/downhill

Etc

ALL influence the range

Wind is huge. A 20 MPH headwind will kill your range.

Have you found otherwise? My experience is that one needs to allow for substantial variation in range. The saving grace of EVs is that when you find you're not going to make it, slowing down usually saves the day.

 

[oilerlord]

As one who has logged close to 100K miles in an EV, I can tell you that's not the case.

Environmental temperature
Battery temperature at start of drive
Wind
Road conditions
Need for heating or cooling
Traffic
Uphill/downhill

Etc

ALL influence the range

Wind is huge. A 20 MPH headwind will kill your range.

I'm only 7K miles in with my EV but in my experience, all of the above is 100% correct. There is no known "effective" range on ANY EV...only estimates that vary considerably due to the above variables.

The biggest factor for me is the combination of ambient temperature, and running the heater. Sitting in traffic or at a long train with the heater consuming 5kW is a big deal. Parking the car outside below freezing for a few hours = range loss. A good tailwind can net me 5+ miles/kWh while dropping me down to 1 mile/kWh in a strong headwind.

The EPA 238 mile range number is only a place to start, and IS NOT anything close to an ICEV. This winter, there have been days where HALF my range has been lost due to above conditions. That simply doesn't happen with ICEV's.

The EPA really does need to revise their EV testing cycles because they are essentially meaningless other than a place to start when comparing other EV's. I'm not saying the Bolt can't get 300 miles on a charge, but people need to understand that it very well may have an "effective" range of under 150 miles too.

 

[LeftieBiker]

When I wrote that "you'd know" the range I meant that you would know it, not the hypothetical poor rich kids that you were dooming to having to find a place to charge on 120 volts. The horror! ;-) I'm quite experienced with range issues myself, living in an area with wildly varying temps, winds, and even elevations. And nowhere did I reference the EPA range. I'm talking about the 180 miles of range that seems to be on the way to being established as the low end of the range spectrum. Excepting, of course, driving 80MPH in frigid weather, with a headwind, in which case you'd/they'd want to either slow down or practice your Darwin Award acceptance speech. ;-)

By way of explanation, I guess I should mention that when I was a teenager, especially from 18-20, I only intermittently had a car at all. I had to hitchhike 180 miles each way to visit my GF at college, and I swear it was uphill both ways. I remember standing at the side of Rte 20 in Central NY, as night fell on a frigid Sunday night with no traffic, and thinking "Hey, I may be going to freeze to death here." When a truck finally pulled up, driven by a guy who looked like a serial killer, I got in, figuring at least it would be a warm death. Thus my reference to 'Rich peoples' problems.'