Purchase / Lease details

[Pigwich]

Share your purchase details in this thread.

OTHER PEOPLE PLEASE POST DETAILS SO WE CAN KNOW HOW HARD TO PUSH DEALERS AND WHEN TO WALK AWAY.

Always the skeptic, I'm of course concerned I got hosed at Keyes Chevy in Van Nuys. Date was December 30, 2016, not a single Bolt on the lot. I also don't care if they read this, and I encourage everybody to be a bigger pain in the ass than I was. And I was a major pain in the ass, two salesmen later, an infant, and breastmilk spilled on their tables and loitering inside their little glass "sales" bullpen until they asked me and the baby to leave.

So here goes - I leased a loaded loaded loaded premiere, sparkly orange with all the bells and whistles, which they're saying is $43,908, 36 months, $475 a month. They were originally asking well north of $600 a month, which was ******** and I wasn't having it. 10,000 miles a year, mind you, my last car I barely put 7500 a year on, so this is probably fine...

Didn't trade anything in, which simplifies calculations.

I put $2,500 down on a credit card, Credit score 819

Gross capital cost: $44,503.98
Capitalized cost reduction: $3,681.70 (should have been closer to the federal $7500?)
Adjusted capitalized cost: $40,822.28
Residual Value: $26,343.00
Depreciation: $14,479.28
Rent charge: $1,208.80
Total of base scheduled payments: $15,688.08
Number of payments: 36 months
Lease Payments: $435.78
Base Scheduled Payment: $39.22
$0.25 a mile if I go over 10,000. I wonder if I could re-negotiate for more miles? Is that a thing people do?

Also, apparently there was some $2500 GM Customer Incentive I got? This isn't the $2500 state rebate. The nice lady at the desk told me I was the first person she saw to get this incentive. Which could also be complete ********, like everything else at a car dealership. But maybe not. Either way, make them give it to you.

Also, hidden in there somewhere is $3,039.12 in tax, title, fee, registration, HOV stickers, chingaderas and licence plates.

and MAGICALLY all those numbers add up to a nice round $475 a month, which of course, round numbers always smell slightly of dead rat, but whatever. I DO want this car a lot, and on the grand scheme of things, I'm not paying a lot to have the latest and greatest toy.

As for the experience? I bought this car, sight unseen. I played around with one and got in to all kinds of compartments and poked and prodded one at the LA auto show this fall, and it was acceptable. As far as the dealer goes, it was typical awful ****. They sent out their sweetest 22 year old kid to try to get me to give them a billion dollars for this car. Then they scribble numbers all over a paper and make you "sign" something that says you will buy the car if the terms are favorable, which obviously is a joke. Then they argue and bitch and hem and haw and you ask them "So, how exactly are you applying the federal tax credit?" to which you'll never get a straight answer. "Oh this is a very hot car, the programs, the programs and GM and that's the price, blah blah" with no actual information. Then you run the numbers in front of them, and ask them where that $7500 federal credit is going, and they say "Well, they keep it. GM keeps it" and then "The dealer keeps it" and you ask them why it's not reflected in the price you're seeing scribbled on the paper, and then they disappear and come back with a lower price. Then they just want to see your credit card that you'd use for the deposit, because they just want to hold on to it. OK, whatver dude. At this point, hours later, I was told that they were simply not going to sell this car to me because plenty of other people would pay what they were asking and weren't going to be such a pain. Well, sorry in advance for this post, now nobody will pay more than $475 for a Bolt in Los Angeles. So now begins the waiting game for my car to show up. Yup, still somewhere on a train or truck in Mira Loma.

OTHER PEOPLE PLEASE POST DETAILS SO WE CAN KNOW HOW HARD TO PUSH DEALERS AND WHEN TO WALK AWAY. I'm really hoping that I didn't just "take one for the team"

Also, on that note, does anybody want to take over the lease on my red Spark EV? Next payment is in June (Doh!) and I've got 13,000 miles left (Doh!) and the lease ends January 2018. You pay the $595 transfer fee, then payments, starting in june are $220. Private message me.

Andy

 

[Schnort]

Capitalized cost reduction: $3,681.70 (should have been closer to the federal $7500?)

The rest of it is used to prop up the residual (the car will not be worth 60% of its MSRP at the end of 3 years. It will lose 25% just driving off the lot due to the $7500 federal credit being consumed.)

Also, on that note, does anybody want to take over the lease on my red Spark EV? Next payment is in June (Doh!) and I've got 13,000 miles left (Doh!) and the lease ends January 2018. You pay the $595 transfer fee, then payments, starting in june are $220. Private message me.

Andy

Alas, I'm in Texas. Too far to make it work, plus I think I'd get reamed by sales tax (Texas requires full sales tax payed up front on leases. I'd only get credit for the tax you've paid so far, which is probably a lot less than than the ~$1600 in sales tax on the new car.

 

[DucRider]

Share your purchase details in this thread.

OTHER PEOPLE PLEASE POST DETAILS SO WE CAN KNOW HOW HARD TO PUSH DEALERS AND WHEN TO WALK AWAY.

Always the skeptic, I'm of course concerned I got hosed at Keyes Chevy in Van Nuys. Date was December 30, 2016, not a single Bolt on the lot. I also don't care if they read this, and I encourage everybody to be a bigger pain in the ass than I was. And I was a major pain in the ass, two salesmen later, an infant, and breastmilk spilled on their tables and loitering inside their little glass "sales" bullpen until they asked me and the baby to leave.

So here goes - I leased a loaded loaded loaded premiere, sparkly orange with all the bells and whistles, which they're saying is $43,908, 36 months, $475 a month. They were originally asking well north of $600 a month, which was ******** and I wasn't having it. 10,000 miles a year, mind you, my last car I barely put 7500 a year on, so this is probably fine...

Didn't trade anything in, which simplifies calculations.

I put $2,500 down on a credit card, Credit score 819

Gross capital cost: $44,503.98
Capitalized cost reduction: $3,681.70 (should have been closer to the federal $7500?)
Adjusted capitalized cost: $40,822.28
Residual Value: $26,343.00
Depreciation: $14,479.28
Rent charge: $1,208.80
Total of base scheduled payments: $15,688.08
Number of payments: 36 months
Lease Payments: $435.78
Base Scheduled Payment: $39.22
$0.25 a mile if I go over 10,000. I wonder if I could re-negotiate for more miles? Is that a thing people do?

Also, apparently there was some $2500 GM Customer Incentive I got? This isn't the $2500 state rebate. The nice lady at the desk told me I was the first person she saw to get this incentive. Which could also be complete ********, like everything else at a car dealership. But maybe not. Either way, make them give it to you.

Also, hidden in there somewhere is $3,039.12 in tax, title, fee, registration, HOV stickers, chingaderas and licence plates.

and MAGICALLY all those numbers add up to a nice round $475 a month, which of course, round numbers always smell slightly of dead rat, but whatever. I DO want this car a lot, and on the grand scheme of things, I'm not paying a lot to have the latest and greatest toy.

As for the experience? I bought this car, sight unseen. I played around with one and got in to all kinds of compartments and poked and prodded one at the LA auto show this fall, and it was acceptable. As far as the dealer goes, it was typical awful ****. They sent out their sweetest 22 year old kid to try to get me to give them a billion dollars for this car. Then they scribble numbers all over a paper and make you "sign" something that says you will buy the car if the terms are favorable, which obviously is a joke. Then they argue and bitch and hem and haw and you ask them "So, how exactly are you applying the federal tax credit?" to which you'll never get a straight answer. "Oh this is a very hot car, the programs, the programs and GM and that's the price, blah blah" with no actual information. Then you run the numbers in front of them, and ask them where that $7500 federal credit is going, and they say "Well, they keep it. GM keeps it" and then "The dealer keeps it" and you ask them why it's not reflected in the price you're seeing scribbled on the paper, and then they disappear and come back with a lower price. Then they just want to see your credit card that you'd use for the deposit, because they just want to hold on to it. OK, whatver dude. At this point, hours later, I was told that they were simply not going to sell this car to me because plenty of other people would pay what they were asking and weren't going to be such a pain. Well, sorry in advance for this post, now nobody will pay more than $475 for a Bolt in Los Angeles. So now begins the waiting game for my car to show up. Yup, still somewhere on a train or truck in Mira Loma.

OTHER PEOPLE PLEASE POST DETAILS SO WE CAN KNOW HOW HARD TO PUSH DEALERS AND WHEN TO WALK AWAY. I'm really hoping that I didn't just "take one for the team"

Also, on that note, does anybody want to take over the lease on my red Spark EV? Next payment is in June (Doh!) and I've got 13,000 miles left (Doh!) and the lease ends January 2018. You pay the $595 transfer fee, then payments, starting in june are $220. Private message me.

Andy

Re: The tax credit
It appears you got it all, some in the form of a higher residual (as Schnort pointed out). Saved you in sales tax (a CCR reduction is taxable), cost you a little in "rent" (you pay interest on the residual)
And, as is not unusual, the dealers had no clue about the tax credit or how it is applied. The purchaser (in this case the leasing company (GM Financial?) is entitled to and files for the credit with their tax return - neither "GM" nor "the dealer" keeps it.

Don't forget to file for your CA rebate!
https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng
Most will get $2500 (low income get $4k, high income = no rebate for you!)

You did not give all the detail such as money factor, but it appears your deal falls in line with the rumored GM Financial numbers
https://leasehackr.com/blog/2016/11/21/bolt-ev-lease-program-announced-309-month

If you want to post:

• The "agreed upon purchase price" (likely MSRP)
• Money Factor (likely .0005)
• Acquisition Fee (likely $595)
• Amounts of any other fees and charges (DMV, etc.)

It will give a better picture of what you really paid (but you did not get ripped off)

Re: Miles
No renegotiating for more after you sign the contract (that priveledge seems to apply only to professional athletes).
If you had gone for the 12K/yr lease, your payment would have been ~$501/mo. Those miles would have cost about $0.13 each (if you had used 100% of them).

It appears that the $2500 on your CC was your total "drive off"? You didn't pay separately for the registration, etc?

 

[michael]

I'm sorry, I had a little trouble following all that, so could you please clarify...

MSRP of your car (including destination, etc) = ???

How much money did you pay at signing? ($2500? more? Less?)

How many miles/year? (10,000??)

What is your monthly payment, including sales tax? (475? 475 plus tax? something different?)

How many months (36?)

Thanks!

 

[leodoggie]

Excellent post Pigwich, informative and witty, brilliant, thanks.

 

[Pigwich]

I'm sorry, I had a little trouble following all that, so could you please clarify...

MSRP of your car (including destination, etc) = ???

How much money did you pay at signing? ($2500? more? Less?)

How many miles/year? (10,000??)

What is your monthly payment, including sales tax? (475? 475 plus tax? something different?)

How many months (36?)

Thanks!

OK, yeah, sorry..

So the "Agreed upon value of the vehicle" is $43,908
I paid $2,500 at signing.
10,000 miles a year
$475 is the amount of the check that I write every month, for 35 months (it seems that somehow my first payment was already made?)

I'm tempted to just scan the whole damn lease agreement for all to see.

I can say, in looking over my Spark EV agreement, my capital cost reduction was $7422.56, with a SILLY residual value of $16,407
If anybody wants to look at the google doc I prepared about taking over the lease, it's at:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dGy0PwyT3lMI7-B2wJjcw4YSCzlkKzsTyrPYzNgYUYE/edit

 

[bro19991]

$1k off MSRP, $799 to ship back to MD! 2.99% interest on 72 month financing. Will likely refinance this in the near future.

 

[robot]

$1k off MSRP, $799 to ship back to MD! 2.99% interest on 72 month financing. Will likely refinance this in the near future.

This is very interesting to me.... rather than waiting for them to show up in Washington. I have relatives in CA and I'm always down there, plus with the electric highway, driving it back North would be fun.

Did you have a hard time finding a dealership that would sell to an out-of-stater?

 

[leodoggie]

I'm tempted to just scan the whole damn lease agreement for all to see.

That would be really useful for those of us who have never leased a car before.

 

[DucRider]

This is very interesting to me.... rather than waiting for them to show up in Washington. I have relatives in CA and I'm always down there, plus with the electric highway, driving it back North would be fun.

Did you have a hard time finding a dealership that would sell to an out-of-stater?

If you pick it up in CA, you will have to pay CA Sales Tax. If you have it shipped from CA, you do not (this is dictated by the State, not the dealership)

And driving I5 on CCS would be possible, but painful. Many of the Combo chargers shown on Plugshare are 24 kW or at least 2 hours to get to an 80% charge (~140 miles? range this time of year). Drive for 2 hours, stop for two hours?

 

[Pigwich]

Here's all the pertinent information for my lease.



Sorry for the bad resolution - I had to fit it under the file size limit, whatever that is.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Share your purchase details in this thread.

OTHER PEOPLE PLEASE POST DETAILS SO WE CAN KNOW HOW HARD TO PUSH DEALERS AND WHEN TO WALK AWAY.

Always the skeptic, I'm of course concerned I got hosed at Keyes Chevy in Van Nuys. Date was December 30, 2016, not a single Bolt on the lot. I also don't care if they read this, and I encourage everybody to be a bigger pain in the ass than I was. And I was a major pain in the ass, two salesmen later, an infant, and breastmilk spilled on their tables and loitering inside their little glass "sales" bullpen until they asked me and the baby to leave.

So here goes - I leased a loaded loaded loaded premiere, sparkly orange with all the bells and whistles, which they're saying is $43,908, 36 months, $475 a month. They were originally asking well north of $600 a month, which was ******** and I wasn't having it. 10,000 miles a year, mind you, my last car I barely put 7500 a year on, so this is probably fine...

Didn't trade anything in, which simplifies calculations.

I put $2,500 down on a credit card, Credit score 819

Gross capital cost: $44,503.98
Capitalized cost reduction: $3,681.70 (should have been closer to the federal $7500?)
Adjusted capitalized cost: $40,822.28
Residual Value: $26,343.00
Depreciation: $14,479.28
Rent charge: $1,208.80
Total of base scheduled payments: $15,688.08
Number of payments: 36 months
Lease Payments: $435.78
Base Scheduled Payment: $39.22
$0.25 a mile if I go over 10,000. I wonder if I could re-negotiate for more miles? Is that a thing people do?

Also, apparently there was some $2500 GM Customer Incentive I got? This isn't the $2500 state rebate. The nice lady at the desk told me I was the first person she saw to get this incentive. Which could also be complete ********, like everything else at a car dealership. But maybe not. Either way, make them give it to you.

Also, hidden in there somewhere is $3,039.12 in tax, title, fee, registration, HOV stickers, chingaderas and licence plates.

and MAGICALLY all those numbers add up to a nice round $475 a month, which of course, round numbers always smell slightly of dead rat, but whatever. I DO want this car a lot, and on the grand scheme of things, I'm not paying a lot to have the latest and greatest toy.

As for the experience? I bought this car, sight unseen. I played around with one and got in to all kinds of compartments and poked and prodded one at the LA auto show this fall, and it was acceptable. As far as the dealer goes, it was typical awful ****. They sent out their sweetest 22 year old kid to try to get me to give them a billion dollars for this car. Then they scribble numbers all over a paper and make you "sign" something that says you will buy the car if the terms are favorable, which obviously is a joke. Then they argue and bitch and hem and haw and you ask them "So, how exactly are you applying the federal tax credit?" to which you'll never get a straight answer. "Oh this is a very hot car, the programs, the programs and GM and that's the price, blah blah" with no actual information. Then you run the numbers in front of them, and ask them where that $7500 federal credit is going, and they say "Well, they keep it. GM keeps it" and then "The dealer keeps it" and you ask them why it's not reflected in the price you're seeing scribbled on the paper, and then they disappear and come back with a lower price. Then they just want to see your credit card that you'd use for the deposit, because they just want to hold on to it. OK, whatver dude. At this point, hours later, I was told that they were simply not going to sell this car to me because plenty of other people would pay what they were asking and weren't going to be such a pain. Well, sorry in advance for this post, now nobody will pay more than $475 for a Bolt in Los Angeles. So now begins the waiting game for my car to show up. Yup, still somewhere on a train or truck in Mira Loma.

OTHER PEOPLE PLEASE POST DETAILS SO WE CAN KNOW HOW HARD TO PUSH DEALERS AND WHEN TO WALK AWAY. I'm really hoping that I didn't just "take one for the team"

Also, on that note, does anybody want to take over the lease on my red Spark EV? Next payment is in June (Doh!) and I've got 13,000 miles left (Doh!) and the lease ends January 2018. You pay the $595 transfer fee, then payments, starting in june are $220. Private message me.

Andy

Interesting numbers. I've heard of the $2500 GM rebate but as always GM, the dealerships, and leasing firms like to stick it to us and do a nice job of making it as obscure as possible. You should see that rebate somewhere in your lease contract otherwise they didn't give anything to you in the way of that deal.

Some claim the $7500 rebate goes towards increasing your residual value thus reducing the cost of the lease. Over $3000 in hidden costs....outrageous how they rape the consumer.

 

[SeanNelson]

I have relatives in CA and I'm always down there, plus with the electric highway, driving it back North would be fun.

Be forewarned: most of the "fast" chargers along I-5 in Oregon and northern California are only 24KW.

 

[michael]

Interesting numbers. I've heard of the $2500 GM rebate but as always GM, the dealerships, and leasing firms like to stick it to us and do a nice job of making it as obscure as possible. You should see that rebate somewhere in your lease contract otherwise they didn't give anything to you in the way of that deal.

Some claim the $7500 rebate goes towards increasing your residual value thus reducing the cost of the lease. Over $3000 in hidden costs....outrageous how they rape the consumer.

I looked at the lease agreement. I don't see any "hidden" costs with the possible exception of the lease origination and termination fees.

The 3039 seem to be a disclosure of the taxes and government fees you will be stuck with, one way or the other, during the lease:

Registration: 285 X3 = 855
Sales tax on monthly 1411
Sales tax on cap reduction: 331
Title 102
HOV stickers 29

total $2626

There's another $413 in there somewhere, I'm not sure where, but it's a disclosure of governmental fees, not an additional charge as best I can tell. Maybe the government is raping you for $3K, but I don't see this as going to the dealer or manufacturer.


Basically, you paid sticker price for the car because it's new and in demand. That was a reasonable choice you made, they aren't screwing you as best I can tell. If you were willing to wait a few months, you probably (not certainly) could have gotten it for less.

Under this lease, the assumed residual after three years is $26, 343, which is 60% of the sticker price of the car. Historically, EVs have been worth far, far less than that. So they are obviously applying some or most of the $7500 as a reserve against the difference between this opimistic value and a realistic value.

In three years, the Tesla model 3 will probably be out. What will be the value of a three year old Bolt then? A lot, lot less than $26K I suspect

 

[oilerlord]

As far as the dealer goes, it was typical awful ****. They sent out their sweetest 22 year old kid to try to get me to give them a billion dollars for this car. Then they scribble numbers all over a paper and make you "sign" something that says you will buy the car if the terms are favorable, which obviously is a joke. Then they argue and bitch and hem and haw and you ask them "So, how exactly are you applying the federal tax credit?" to which you'll never get a straight answer. "Oh this is a very hot car, the programs, the programs and GM and that's the price, blah blah" with no actual information.

When the worthless and non-binding intent-to-purchase scribble comes out, it's time to head for the exit. They figure it's a sales qualifier / closing tool but all it does is make the client feel uncomfortable. No one has to put up with that crap. There are dozens of other dealers that can sell you a car, You're a valued client with the potential for a lifetime of business and referrals. The right dealership will recognize that.

 

[lafay]

Picked up a Bolt LT yesterday at Fremont Chevrolet in Fremont, CA. Apparently this dealer got an extra-large initial allocation -- something about Chevy wanting to give Tesla the finger, since this dealership is almost next door to the Tesla factory in Fremont. In any case, they did not pre-sell all of their initial allocation and had 5 or 6 unsold Bolts sitting on the lot when I called Tuesday morning. Verified by checking dealer website, showed 6 in stock with photos and stock numbers.

I tried some negotiation with the Internet sales mgr via email / text, but they were having none of it. MSRP only. I think they knew they had the golden tickets -- every other dealer I called in the Bay Area was talking about pre-orders for their 2nd allocation in mid-Feb, and most of them hadn't even received their 1st allocation yet.

By the time we arrived Tue evening to do the deal, the only one left was an orange LT with DC fast charge, comfort / convenience package and driver awareness package. $39,690 MSRP. Leased for 36 mo / 36K mi under standard terms ($2500 cap cost reduction, .00050 MF, .60 residual). $4000 down (includes fees, DMV, etc.) and $370 / month.

Perhaps we could have gotten $500 or $1000 off MSRP by pre-ordering from another dealer and waiting til 2nd allocations arrived, but we were unexpectedly in need of a car (one of ours totaled over the weekend).

FWIW, this is the same dealership where Steve Wozniak picked up his Bolt earlier in the day, and they claimed he also paid MSRP. Though I guess Woz doesn't really need to worry about negotiating over a few hundred $$$

 

[dan2112]

By the time we arrived Tue evening to do the deal, the only one left was an orange LT with DC fast charge, comfort / convenience package and driver awareness package. $39,690 MSRP. Leased for 36 mo / 36K mi under standard terms ($2500 cap cost reduction, .00050 MF, .60 residual). $4000 down (includes fees, DMV, etc.) and $370 / month.

Does the $370 include tax?

 

[lafay]

Does the $370 include tax?

Yes.

 

[dan2112]

Does the $370 include tax?

Yes.

Thanks - my Bolt is scheduled to come in next week at the same dealer - it is a loaded LT - hoping to get out the door with about same lease price as you. - We'll see - thanks for the info.

 

[Pigwich]

Does the $370 include tax?

Yes.

Would you be willing to post the lease like I did for mine? Knowledge is power.