Official Dealer Stock Thread - Who Has Uncommitted Inventory on Their Lot?

[roundpeg]

These days, USD $1.00 buys CAD$1.33. If I lived in Buffalo, I'd certainly look into buying a Bolt from across the lake in Toronto.

That at least looks like a good deal but I wonder if in the end it would work out that way. It's unclear to me whether an imported EV would be eligible for the federal tax credit, and I am pretty certain you won't see the Canadian EV incentives on an export.

 

[oilerlord]

These days, USD $1.00 buys CAD$1.33. If I lived in Buffalo, I'd certainly look into buying a Bolt from across the lake in Toronto.

That at least looks like a good deal but I wonder if in the end it would work out that way. It's unclear to me whether an imported EV would be eligible for the federal tax credit, and I am pretty certain you won't see the Canadian EV incentives on an export.

However, the US $7500 tax credit is based on tax liability correct? For example, if you only owe $3000 in taxes, you cannot claim the other $4500. A Canadian $43,000 Bolt would be about USD$32,500. For some, perhaps it would make sense shopping for one across the border, especially if the CAD continues it's slide against the USD. Ontario is a province with (Canadian) EV rebates, so dealers in that province may receive allocation before some states do.

 

[roundpeg]

However, the US $7500 tax credit is based on tax liability correct? For example, if you only owe $3000 in taxes, you cannot claim the other $4500. A Canadian $43,000 Bolt would be about USD$32,500. For some, perhaps it would make sense shopping for one across the border, especially if the CAD continues it's slide against the USD. Ontario is a province with (Canadian) EV rebates, so dealers in that province may receive allocation before some states do.

Yes, it's a credit against federal tax liability. Not being able to claim the full value is why many seem to view leasing as a better option than buying. Living in California (and being able to claim both the tax credit and the state rebate) it's kind of an academic question, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone stateside who tries to take advantage of the strong US dollars by buying in Canada.

 

[zappcatt]

Unless I was buying a Tesla (and had superchargers on the route), I wouldn't even consider driving instead of shipping an EV. Too much trip planning, and wasted time.

Hmm.. The West Coast Electric Highway, from San Jose California to Seattle. Total distance 850 miles. Longest run without charging available is about 114 miles. Largest issue is many of the CCS chargers are 24kW units. That turns a 40 minute add 50% charge session to an hour and 20 minutes to add 50%. But if it was all 50kW units:

850 miles at 4 miles per kWh would take 212.4 kWh. 4.25 hours charging at 50kW. 8.8 hours charging at 24 kW. With L2 charging overnight, would only need 450 miles of DC charging, or 2.25 hours.

At 50kW charging rate: Would take 15 hours from San Jose to Seattle rather than 13 hours. Two days either way. With L2 overnight and starting with 100% and ending at 10%.

At 24kW charging rate would be somewhat less attractive.

Cost would be a plane flight, one or two nights in hotels, meals, charging... Not out of the question.

EV Planning would be mostly to find hotel near midpoint with L2 charging nearby. Lots of hotels in Grant's pass near an L2, but don't have one. Hilton Garden Inn in Springfield OR looks ok, but might be pricy. Motel 6 in Oakland, OR. At least 4 other options. This is not planning a Leaf trip.

(edit: fixed some math)

Thanks for doing the math on OR-SJC trip. Family in Portland...they might get a surprise visit!

 

[GetOffYourGas]

A paid vacation beats an unpaid vacation. When the dollars were at so-called "parity" it was advantage to Canadians to the tune of about 30%. I spent a little time in Canada during that time period and was it ever expensive.

These days, USD $1.00 buys CAD$1.33. If I lived in Buffalo, I'd certainly look into buying a Bolt from across the lake in Toronto.

Interesting. I have a friend in Buffalo who is strongly considering a Bolt. He is bummed that upstate NY won't get cars until spring time (according to his local dealer). Maybe he can get one early, and at a discount (?) by crossing the river.

 

[oilerlord]

Interesting. I have a friend in Buffalo who is strongly considering a Bolt. He is bummed that upstate NY won't get cars until spring time (according to his local dealer). Maybe he can get one early, and at a discount (?) by crossing the river.

If your friend instead chooses to buy a used X5 or ML, let him know that I've got a few MPH speedometer clusters I'm willing to sell for cheap.

Back in 2010-2013 when the our dollar was on parity with the USD, Canadian dealers lobbied the government to implement extra regulations to stem the flood of cars coming in from the US. On X5's and ML's, both required a "Canadian Conversion", meaning the dealers would charge $3,000 - $4,000 for little more than changing the cluster (to a metric KPH unit). It was a money grab but even with that, Canadians saved money buying cars from the US.

GM was/is an easy import, with none of the stink eye I'd get from BMW and Mercedes. Very few restrictions other than the standard safety inspections (DRL's, car seat anchors, non-modified suspensions, etc). Other manufacturers found creative ways to persuade Canadians to buy in Canada. On my VW, Canadian dealers wouldn't honor the warranty on my US Sportwagen. In all, my 1-year old, VW with 5,000 miles on it cost me CDN$26,250. The best deal I could get locally was nearly $35,000. I figured for nearly $9,000 in savings, not having a local warranty was worth the risk - especially since we visit Seattle every year. The car is now out of warranty, never had a problem with it.

I'm taking the same risk with my Mercedes EV. No Canadian warranty. A local M-B dealer even told me that the car "Wasn't admissible into Canada". Was happy to prove them wrong. May not be quite as happy if I have to tow the car all the way to Seattle and back for a recall or minor warranty issue.

 

[WetEV]

Thanks for doing the math on OR-SJC trip. Family in Portland...they might get a surprise visit!

I've added a topic on some hints for road tripping a BEV. I've put a rough plan on SJC to PDX as an example, and hope to update this topic as time allows.

http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4889#p8998

 

[oilerlord]

The problem with trip planning "math" is that depending where you live, it doesn't always add up. While the numbers make perfect sense in the warmth of San Jose, they could be misleading if you live in Chicago, Minneapolis, or Buffalo.

It was 3F yesterday, and I made two separate 43.5 mile return trips with the EV both starting from my heated garage. Trip one was with heater on - 2.13 miles/kWh. Trip two cycled the heat 1min on / 10mins off - 2.77 miles per kWh. Both were identical 95% highway trips, cruise set at 95 km/h (59 mph). Posted speed limit - 100 km/h (62 mph).

Assuming "normal" people choose the luxury of being warm & comfortable over frostbite, and would have probably driven 70 mph instead of 59, the Bolt in these conditions would likely yield somewhere between 2.0-2.5 miles/kWh. With a 60kWh battery - that adds up to 120-150 miles of range. For those without a heated garage, or forced to park outside in these conditions, achieving 2 miles per kWh could be a challenge.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons that initial allocations are being filled in California and Oregon. GM may want to avoid hundreds of "what's wrong with my car's range" Internet posts from people that experience real winter driving conditions. I'd certainly be upset if I was promised 238 miles of range and I got stranded in the cold in the middle of a 150 mile trip.

 

[WetEV]

The problem with trip planning "math" is that depending where you live, it doesn't always add up.

Follow up is in:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4889#p8998

 

[tink]

Just noticed the Colma Chevy dealer is showing on Bolt in stock ~ 8:25am PST

http://www.stewartcars.com/VehicleDetails/new-2017-Chevrolet-Bolt_EV-5dr_HB_Premier-Colma-CA/2895527693

 

[tink]

it actually shows "in transit", but it's a change in how dealerships are presenting the Bolt on-line.

 

[Schnort]

The link shows "in transit" for me.

 

[zappcatt]

Just noticed the Colma Chevy dealer is showing on Bolt in stock ~ 8:25am PST

http://www.stewartcars.com/VehicleDetails/new-2017-Chevrolet-Bolt_EV-5dr_HB_Premier-Colma-CA/2895527693

It is listed as "in transit", so not on the lot, and possibly spoken for, but it will definitely lead to inquiries.

 

[pdxbolt]

So even if you ordered it this year they can reduce your tax credit based on when you receive it? Messed up

Goes by when you pay for it, not order it.

Not quite correct. You have to drive the car in the year you want the tax credit for.
Purchase date does not matter.
I have the proof from the IRS but can't seem to paste the screenshot in here.

 

[stevewa]

Would be very interested in this info. I'm reading it's a state-by-state rule regarding title transfer. If you are right my strategy might not work!

So even if you ordered it this year they can reduce your tax credit based on when you receive it? Messed up

Goes by when you pay for it, not order it.

Not quite correct. You have to drive the car in the year you want the tax credit for.
Purchase date does not matter.
I have the proof from the IRS but can't seem to paste the screenshot in here.

 

[pdxbolt]

Would be very interested in this info. I'm reading it's a state-by-state rule regarding title transfer. If you are right my strategy might not work!

Goes by when you pay for it, not order it.

Not quite correct. You have to drive the car in the year you want the tax credit for.
Purchase date does not matter.
I have the proof from the IRS but can't seem to paste the screenshot in here.

Here is the URL for the info:
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/plug-in-electric-drive-vehicle-credit-section-30d

NOTE THIS SENTENCE:"and begun driving it in the year in which you claim the credit"

So, if the Bolts are not delivered by the end of the year, and Congress repeals the tax credit for next year, all bets are off. BTW...numerous publication have said that the new administration will likely do exactly that

 

[stevewa]

Yep, I see it the same way.

The charitable articles I've read suggest the tax credits will simply be allowed to expire. But I'm not willing to risk $7500 on that given what we've seen to date. I'm now vascillating between lease and cancel...

Here is the URL for the info:
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/plug-in-electric-drive-vehicle-credit-section-30d

NOTE THIS SENTENCE:"and begun driving it in the year in which you claim the credit"

So, if the Bolts are not delivered by the end of the year, and Congress repeals the tax credit for next year, all bets are off. BTW...numerous publication have said that the new administration will likely do exactly that

 

[reeler]

I am still hunting for a loaded Bolt to purchase before years end. I have one that has no options that I can get, but would like heated seats at least. Anyone have a lead on any?

 

[pdxbolt]

Yep, I see it the same way.

The charitable articles I've read suggest the tax credits will simply be allowed to expire. But I'm not willing to risk $7500 on that given what we've seen to date. I'm now vascillating between lease and cancel...

Here is the URL for the info:
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/plug-in-electric-drive-vehicle-credit-section-30d

NOTE THIS SENTENCE:"and begun driving it in the year in which you claim the credit"

So, if the Bolts are not delivered by the end of the year, and Congress repeals the tax credit for next year, all bets are off. BTW...numerous publication have said that the new administration will likely do exactly that

I don't think leasing would make sense without the tax credit.
If the credit goes away, so will the electric car industry. And I think that fits the goals of the incoming administration very well. Just look at the people being appointed. The car manufacturers won't fight since
they hated making "compliance cars" from the get go. Remember that California mandated that car
makers have to offer electric vehicles in their lineup in order to be able to sell in California at all.
I have had numerous discussions with people who ridicule electric cars. To me, it has ever been the goal
that the current or next car solves all problems, but if we don't go through with them, the industry just will not advance. If people 100 years ago had been unwilling to buy cars that barely drove 25 mph and could not travel on most of the existing 'roads' we would never had modern cars. And I always point out that there are many more ways to manufacture electricity than gasoline. But people who are ideological and rigid fail to be convinced by the argument.
I am leaning to buying regardless of the credit for two reasons. One, is that I think even if they repeal the credit, it would make ,ore sense to do it for 2017 and forward, given that many people would file their taxes before the repeal would pass in congress. And congress is needed to make that happen. Secondly, electric cars last a long time with almost no problems or maintenance. And since the Bolt will basically be sold in
Europe as the Amperage, parts and batteries will still be made. The Europeans won't chuck electric cars. Germany is looking to eliminate ICE vehicles completely by 2030.
When I flew to LA to buy my Fiat in 2013 I always joked that they'd have to pry it from my cold, dead hands.
And I love that car more than ever.

 

[stevewa]

I don't think leasing would make sense without the tax credit.
If the credit goes away, so will the electric car industry.

Perhaps in the US, but not globally.

However, if I lease a Bolt while the current deals are still available I'm good for the three years it will take for someone to get impeached.