GM not planning to fund CCS fast chargers

[SeanNelson]

No company is going to make their sole product objectively worse intentionally. And yes, adapters are clearly worse than no adapter.

If Tesla wanted to, they could put on additional cords with J1772 connectors, just like the DC fast charging stations that have both J1772 and CHAdeMO. No adapters needed. No different than a gas pump with regular and premium hoses. No big deal.

 

[DucRider]

If Tesla wanted to, they could put on additional cords with J1772 connectors, just like the DC fast charging stations that have both J1772 and CHAdeMO. No adapters needed. No different than a gas pump with regular and premium hoses. No big deal.

J1772 is not used for DC fast charging. You are probably thinking of the CCS combo charger. And it's much more than just a different connector, there are handshaking protocols and other factors to consider.

What would possibly motivate Tesla to add charging equipment that can only be used by their competitors cars? They are already experiencing back-ups and wait times at their busy Superchargers, and it's only going to get worse as more Teslas are on the road. It's one thing to promote the adoption of EV's and push for industry advancement. It's another thing to spend money to negate your biggest competitive advantage with no compensation.

It's up to other manufacturers to make their cars compatible with Tesla's standards if they want their customers to be able to use Tesla's equipment. if they choose not to, it's not up to Tesla to make it work. If someone like Subaru decided to use yet another standard, would you think that Tesla should then modify their equipment so Subaru owners could charge?

 

[SeanNelson]

If Tesla wanted to, they could put on additional cords with J1772 connectors, just like the DC fast charging stations that have both J1772 and CHAdeMO. No adapters needed. No different than a gas pump with regular and premium hoses. No big deal.

What would possibly motivate Tesla to add charging equipment that can only be used by their competitors cars?

Their supposedly altruistic goal of encouraging EV use, coupled with the other manufacturers improving up their vehicles so they could charge as fast as a Tesla. That's what Tesla themselves said it would take to open their charging network.

My point was that you don't need an adapter, the charging station just just needs another cable with the appropriate (yes, CCS) connector. The handshaking protocols are just firmware, no big deal in the grand scheme of things.

In fact, since it's looking more and more like CCS will become the predominant standard, it might be a good idea for Tesla to start equipping their charging stations with it in case they ever want to transition their cars to it in future models. It seems to me that at some point, perhaps several years from now, the industry will finally get their act together and come together under a single standard. I can't see electric vehicles really going mainstream unless they do.

Maybe that won't happen until 150KW CCS charging becomes a reality. But the sooner the better, IMHO. There's just not that much incentive to expand the fast charger network with chargers that are likely to be obsolete a few years from now.

 

[Tcdn]

Ontario is installing 500 charging stations across the province but BC is only adding 12 fast charge stations

 

[Tcdn]

I noticed several ads on the internet for buying charging stations directly from China does this have any advantages or disadvantages

 

[JPWhite]

I noticed several ads on the internet for buying charging stations directly from China does this have any advantages or disadvantages

I suggest sticking with Clipper Creek.

They are based in the US, have a good reputation in the EV community for a solid product and very good customer service. No need to understand pidgin english to read the instructions or get tech support

 

[SeanNelson]

Ontario is installing 500 charging stations across the province but BC is only adding 12 fast charge stations

It's too early to tell, but with charging standards still evolving at a rapid rate that actually might work out better for us BC drivers in the long run. Right now BC is rolling out 50KW fast chargers. If 100 or 150KW becomes common in a few years that BC will have fewer chargers to upgrade or replace and that might mean the faster charging capability becomes available faster here.

Wishful thinking perhaps, but I'm glad that at least BC's fast chargers are being deployed in what seem to be good well-spaced locations across the highways of southern BC where I think they'll be of the most benefit.

 

[litesong]

...Tesla is not in the business of propping up GM, Ford and other EV laggards.

Its nice to hear Tesla started selling a sub-$30,000 EV last year. Oh, someone in the back of the room says Tesla ain't sellin' no cheap EVs yet. As to "specialized" charging stations......gas stations are having a good laugh. EVs drivers are thrown to the wolves, having to check their computers to see if they can use a particular charge station coming up, as "new tech companies" wage market share warfare. Meanwhile, ICE drivers pump gas from whatever Chevron, Shell, BP, Arco, etc. station is along the road.

 

[DucRider]

...Tesla is not in the business of propping up GM, Ford and other EV laggards.

Its nice to hear Tesla started selling a sub-$30,000 EV last year. Oh, someone in the back of the room says Tesla ain't sellin' no cheap EVs yet. As to "specialized" charging stations......gas stations are having a good laugh. EVs drivers are thrown to the wolves, having to check their computers to see if they can use a particular charge station coming up, as "new tech companies" wage market share warfare. Meanwhile, ICE drivers pump gas from whatever Chevron, Shell, BP, Arco, etc. station is along the road.

Huh what?
I charge overnight at home. Takes a few seconds a day.

Plus, what's so hard about using an app to find a charging station if it is needed?

And then there's:
Never have to wait in line at the gas station.
Not at the mercy of Big Oil playing their pricing games.
Doing my part to stop having to send our kids to the desert to protect our oil supplies.
No oil changes and other time consuming services required by ICE cars.

You can keep your ICE, thank you very much (BTW, you probably won't convince people on this forum to do the same using tired old arguments that are easily dismissed).

 

[SeanNelson]

Plus, what's so hard about using an app to find a charging station if it is needed?

Charging networks are one of the weak points of EVs. For local driving, particularly in a long range EV like the Volt, you don't have to bother with them. But if you're going to hit the road then there are lots of issues you face that ICE drivers take for granted:

- Scarcity of fast charging stations. This is changing, but there are still routes that are difficult to because there's not enough fast charger coverage.

- Finding the stations. No one app seems to be the end-all and be-all for locating stations - they all seem to be incomplete.

- Using the stations. They can be out of service, blocked by ICE vehicles, or busy.

- Paying. This is my biggest gripe - the other stuff I can mostly deal with but this is just so much harder than it should be. You should be able to swipe your credit card and get instant access, just like a gas pump. But there are so many different charging networks and they all use their own payment methods and cards, and many of them require you to sign up in advance. So that means you need to spend a ton of time preparing for a trip by researching the charging stations, networks, and payment policies so that you're able to use them when you get there.

There's gotta be a better way... :x :x :x

 

[DucRider]

- Finding the stations. No one app seems to be the end-all and be-all for locating stations - they all seem to be incomplete.

I've yet to find a publicly available EVSE not listed on Plugshare

- Paying. This is my biggest gripe - the other stuff I can mostly deal with but this is just so much harder than it should be. You should be able to swipe your credit card and get instant access, just like a gas pump. But there are so many different charging networks and they all use their own payment methods and cards, and many of them require you to sign up in advance. So that means you need to spend a ton of time preparing for a trip by researching the charging stations, networks, and payment policies so that you're able to use them when you get there.

There's gotta be a better way... :x :x :x

Spend the $$$ for a Tesla????
Just avoid the popular Superchargers at peak times or prepare to wait.

 

[SeanNelson]

- Finding the stations. No one app seems to be the end-all and be-all for locating stations - they all seem to be incomplete.

I've yet to find a publicly available EVSE not listed on Plugshare

I've read a few accounts of EV owners on long trips complaining about the accuracy of Plugshare (and even more about other charger locating apps). I think that Plugshare is terrific and it's probably better than any other resource out there, but it's still largely reliant on the input of its users. Where the charging infrastructure is scarce users tend to be too, and so the quality of the data isn't up to the same level as it is in areas where EVs are a lot more popular.

 

[WetEV]

I've yet to find a publicly available EVSE not listed on Plugshare

I have, and added them. I've also 'found' several that didn't exist. Luckily I wasn't counting on them. And have corrected the location of several.

 

[ssspinball]

As to "specialized" charging stations......gas stations are having a good laugh. EVs drivers are thrown to the wolves, having to check their computers to see if they can use a particular charge station coming up, as "new tech companies" wage market share warfare. Meanwhile, ICE drivers pump gas from whatever Chevron, Shell, BP, Arco, etc. station is along the road.

What's funny is how precisely opposite the reality is for daily commuters (in other words, 95% of all car usage). My wife still has a gas car and she is by far the most jealous that I never have to visit a gas station. My car is 100% full every time I leave the house!

She is almost totally indifferent on EV vs gas but she now wants an EV solely to avoid going to gas stations!

 

[Geo]

Just ran across this in an article about the Bolt

Among other things, dealerships will need to install a DC fast-charging station and purchase some new equipment needed to service the car. It isn't required yet, but as more of GM's lineup goes electric, the writing will be on the wall soon.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/13/12899752/chevy-bolt-driving-impressions-review

So, does this mean GM will be following Nissan's lead by having fast chargers at the dealers? If so, then perhaps they are quietly building a CCS network.

GM has 3000+ dealers in the US. If just half of them install chargers and make them available to the public, then that will give them more plugs than Tesla. GM's dealers are in every nook and cranny of the country as well, so distribution may even be better.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I don't think QCs at dealerships help the dealers or the customers. For travel, we need real QC stations with multiple connections and a place to spend 30 minutes. For dealers, having a L2 in the service bay is more than enough.

 

[WetEV]

I don't think QCs at dealerships help the dealers or the customers. For travel, we need real QC stations with multiple connections and a place to spend 30 minutes. For dealers, having a L2 in the service bay is more than enough.

Not at a dealership selling a lot of EVs.

Demo cars, service customers needing a charge after service to get home, ...

But yes, QCs at dealerships are less than optimum for travel.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I don't think QCs at dealerships help the dealers or the customers. For travel, we need real QC stations with multiple connections and a place to spend 30 minutes. For dealers, having a L2 in the service bay is more than enough.

Not at a dealership selling a lot of EVs.

Demo cars, service customers needing a charge after service to get home, ...

But yes, QCs at dealerships are less than optimum for travel.

I'm still not convinced. QCs are many times more expensive than L2s. Typical dealer needs can be met with enough L2s.

Demo cars - do they really put in 238 miles of test drives in a day? Highly doubtful. Recharge them overnight, and when they aren't out giving test drives. Heck, having an EV out front charging could be a welcoming sign if the customer is interested in buying en EV. So maybe in addition to an L2 in the service bay, it makes sense to have a line of them outside as well.

Customers needing a charge after service - while this is a nice gesture, it is totally unnecessary. I've had many gas cars serviced both at dealers and at private autoshops. Not once did anyone top off my tank after a service so I could get home. A typical EV driver will have charged up the car before bringing it in, at least enough for the round trip. If the dealer has to take it for a spin, a quick (<1hr) topoff on L2 is all that is needed to replenish the charge.

 

[JPWhite]

I don't think QCs at dealerships help the dealers or the customers. For travel, we need real QC stations with multiple connections and a place to spend 30 minutes. For dealers, having a L2 in the service bay is more than enough.

Not at a dealership selling a lot of EVs.

Demo cars, service customers needing a charge after service to get home, ...

But yes, QCs at dealerships are less than optimum for travel.

I'm still not convinced. QCs are many times more expensive than L2s. Typical dealer needs can be met with enough L2s.

Demo cars - do they really put in 238 miles of test drives in a day? Highly doubtful. Recharge them overnight, and when they aren't out giving test drives. Heck, having an EV out front charging could be a welcoming sign if the customer is interested in buying en EV. So maybe in addition to an L2 in the service bay, it makes sense to have a line of them outside as well.

Customers needing a charge after service - while this is a nice gesture, it is totally unnecessary. I've had many gas cars serviced both at dealers and at private autoshops. Not once did anyone top off my tank after a service so I could get home. A typical EV driver will have charged up the car before bringing it in, at least enough for the round trip. If the dealer has to take it for a spin, a quick (<1hr) topoff on L2 is all that is needed to replenish the charge.

Not all Nissan dealers have a DCFC unit, but the ones that do utilize them to be sure a new LEAF customer drives off with a full charge. Nissan made that a requirement the dealers have to follow. The convenience factor to a dealer selling reasonable quantities of LEAFs is a big deal to them.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Not at a dealership selling a lot of EVs.

Demo cars, service customers needing a charge after service to get home, ...

But yes, QCs at dealerships are less than optimum for travel.

I'm still not convinced. QCs are many times more expensive than L2s. Typical dealer needs can be met with enough L2s.

Demo cars - do they really put in 238 miles of test drives in a day? Highly doubtful. Recharge them overnight, and when they aren't out giving test drives. Heck, having an EV out front charging could be a welcoming sign if the customer is interested in buying en EV. So maybe in addition to an L2 in the service bay, it makes sense to have a line of them outside as well.

Customers needing a charge after service - while this is a nice gesture, it is totally unnecessary. I've had many gas cars serviced both at dealers and at private autoshops. Not once did anyone top off my tank after a service so I could get home. A typical EV driver will have charged up the car before bringing it in, at least enough for the round trip. If the dealer has to take it for a spin, a quick (<1hr) topoff on L2 is all that is needed to replenish the charge.

Not all Nissan dealers have a DCFC unit, but the ones that do utilize them to be sure a new LEAF customer drives off with a full charge. Nissan made that a requirement the dealers have to follow. The convenience factor to a dealer selling reasonable quantities of LEAFs is a big deal to them.

Fair enough. There are a handful of cases, in high-EV areas, in which a QC helps the dealership. It's still not necessary but I can believe it helps.