The Chevy Bolt Will Cost $37,495

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stephen

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Good morning! Welcome to The Morning Shift, your roundup of the auto news you crave, all in one place every weekday morning. Here are the important stories you need to know.

1st Gear: That’s $2,495 More Than A Tesla Model 3

Tesla and GM have already engaged in a bit of sniping over who will have the Cheapest and Goodest Electric Car For The Unwashed Masses, but price is the only quantitative way to win that genitalia-swinging contest. Since Tesla’s committed to offering the Model 3 at $35,000, that means the Bolt is actually a bit more expensive.

Of course, the Bolt is way further along and you’ll be able to get it quicker, but it doesn’t seem like the people plunking down deposits to get a Model 3 really cared about that to begin with.

Because both of these cars are electric vehicles, however, they require a bit of EV math. GM says the Bolt will actually cost $29,995 after a $7,500 federal tax credit, though that feels a bit like some executive just said “make it less than $30,000 after taxes,” and so it was.

2nd Gear: Tesla/SolarCity Lawsuits Build While Cash Drains

Speaking of Tesla, there are a whole bunch of shareholder lawsuits now pending over the deal to acquire SolarCity, notes Bloomberg. And while lawsuits are not unusual for any merger, this time it presents a few complications. Tesla and SolarCity’s boards are extremely closely intertwined, and this one is a bit more high profile than most:

“It will be very difficult for the courts to blow this off,” said James Cox, a professor at the Duke University School of Law. “It’s a high-profile case, it’s a self-dealing case. This gets a much deeper look than most others would.”
Tesla will oppose the lawsuits, the company said in an e-mailed statement. “Simply because someone uses litigation to try to delay an acquisition does not mean it will be successful,” the statement said. “At this point, it is not yet known if anyone will even end up pursuing such a request.”
At the same time, Bloomberg notes that SolarCity has been voraciously eating cash. It just got some more financing, but it’s still not a good look.

3rd Gear: GM And Canadian Union Sign A Deal

GM and the union representing its Canadian factory workers struck a deal just before midnight last night, averting a strike that seemed inevitable. The deal includes wage hikes and promises for future product lines, Automotive News reports:

The framework for a tentative contract between General Motors and Canadian union Unifor could result in hundreds of millions of dollars in investments at GM factories in Ontario, including new product commitments, raises for employees and full-time status for temporary workers.

The deal, reached late Monday at the Sheraton Centre hotel in downtown Toronto, includes investments and product commitments at GM’s Oshawa, Ontario, assembly plant and new production volume at the St. Catharines, Ontario, engine and transmission plant. The investments fulfill a key goal of Unifor, particularly at Oshawa, where no vehicles were slated to be made beyond 2019.
That’s fine, you’ll still get your cars.

4th Gear: Three Google Car Crashes In The Past Month

Three autonomous Google Cars undergoing testing in Arizona have been involved in crashes in the past month, but it’s not exactly cause for robo-apocalypse alarm just yet, the Detroit Free Press reports. In all three cases, the autonomous vehicle was not at fault:

In two of the accidents, Google’s drivers were manually operating the vehicles, and in the third, the Google vehicle was rear-ended while operating in autonomous mode, according to the Mountain View, Calif.-based company owned by Alphabet Inc.
One of the incidents involved a driver arrested on suspicion of drunken driving, which may actually mean this is the first incident of a drunk driver - autonomous vehicle incident.

History’s being made here.

5th Gear: Faraday Future’s Parent Company Just Raised $1 Billion

LeEco, the Chinese parent company of Faraday Future, has its own electric car in the works called the LeSEE. It takes a lot of money to develop a new car from scratch, so that’s exactly what the company did, according to Bloomberg:

China’s Le Holdings Co. has raised $1.08 billion to develop its electric sports car that has drawn comparisons to the Batmobile, the latest in a series of alternative energy vehicle investments even as the industry is set for a Chinese government shake-up.
When automotive startups die, it’s often not because they had a bad idea, but because they ran out of cash. This might be the thing that keeps LeEco running.

Reverse: Mickey Thompson Wants To Be The Fastest Guy On Land

On this day in 1960, California hot rodder Mickey Thompson takes another shot at the world land-speed record. A few weeks earlier, Thompson had become the first American to travel faster than 400 mph on land when he’d piloted his Challenger I (a car that he designed and built himself) across Utah’s Bonneville Salt Flats at 406.6 mph. This drive had made Thompson the fastest man on wheels, but not officially: In order to win a place in the land-speed record books, racers must make a return pass within the hour, and Thompson’s car broke down in the middle of his second run, necessitating a follow-up attempt.


While people lined up to buy a Tesla Model 3, it doesn’t seem like anyone was lining up to buy a Bolt (except Woz). Now that we know it’s more expensive, and it doesn’t have a fast-charging network like the Tesla does, what would your reason be for buying a Bolt?
http://jalopnik.com/the-chevy-bolt-will-cost-37-495-1786843868
 
We really don' t know how much the Model 3 will be priced at. My guess is that the one you'll "want" will be north of $45K.
 
oilerlord said:
We really don' t know how much the Model 3 will be priced at. My guess is that the one you'll "want" will be north of $45K.

This. We know that supercharging will be extra. And I doubt it will be $750, like the Bolt's QC. I wonder what a Model III will cost when comparably equipped to a base Bolt LT. My guess is more than $37,495.
 
There are two option packages listed for the premier on Chevy site. But no prices yet. Or more importantly for me, no info on interior color choices.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
I wonder what a Model III will cost when comparably equipped to a base Bolt LT. My guess is more than $37,495.
I can't think of any feature on the Model 3 that would need to be optioned up from the base model to exceed the base Bolt EV LT, given what we know about it today and the obvious differences in the design. It will cost $36,200 (incl $1200 dest) vs $37,495 for the base Bolt EV.

I was disappointed that some of the safety features in the Bolt EV are not standard but have to be optioned in packages or in the Premier trim. The base Model 3 will have standard "Autopilot Safety Features", which includes "Front and side collision avoidance, Blind spot warning, Lane departure warning, and Parking sensors". Adding in those safety features is extra on the Bolt EV.
 
Zoomit said:
GetOffYourGas said:
I wonder what a Model III will cost when comparably equipped to a base Bolt LT. My guess is more than $37,495.
I can't think of any feature on the Model 3 that would need to be optioned up from the base model to exceed the base Bolt EV LT, given what we know about it today and the obvious differences in the design. It will cost $36,200 (incl $1200 dest) vs $37,495 for the base Bolt EV.

I was disappointed that some of the safety features in the Bolt EV are not standard but have to be optioned in packages or in the Premier trim. The base Model 3 will have standard "Autopilot Safety Features", which includes "Front and side collision avoidance, Blind spot warning, Lane departure warning, and Parking sensors". Adding in those safety features is extra on the Bolt EV.

I must have missed the announcement where these features were all enabled on the base Model III. In the original reveal, Musk was very careful with his words. What he said was that all of the autopilot hardware would be built into every Model III. What he didn't say is that all the software features to use said hardware would be included.

I guess the more important question is this: what will the Model III / Bolt cost when equipped the way that you want yours? What about how I want mine? It may tip one way for you and another for me. For example, QC is a must-have for me. We know that it will cost $750 for the Bolt. We don't know what it will cost to enable it for the Model III (again, Musk strongly implied it would have the hardware, but the software to use it costs extra - a good strategy, since that means cars can be upgraded later, increasing resale value).

And what is the price to get rid of that gaudy 15" monitor from the Model III's dash? How much to replace it with an interior that looks like a car? But I digress ;)
 
GetOffYourGas said:
I must have missed the announcement where these features were all enabled on the base Model III. In the original reveal, Musk was very careful with his words. What he said was that all of the autopilot hardware would be built into every Model III. What he didn't say is that all the software features to use said hardware would be included.
He was careful with his words. Here it is cued up at 9:43. https://youtu.be/7HOhOeKwe30?t=9m43s
 
Zoomit said:
GetOffYourGas said:
I must have missed the announcement where these features were all enabled on the base Model III. In the original reveal, Musk was very careful with his words. What he said was that all of the autopilot hardware would be built into every Model III. What he didn't say is that all the software features to use said hardware would be included.
He was careful with his words. Here it is cued up at 9:43. https://youtu.be/7HOhOeKwe30?t=9m43s
Until you are able to enter into a purchase contract for a car with defined specifications, it's all speculation. What Musk has promised in the past has often changed to accommodate reality. Some aspects of the Model 3 are likely to follow suit.
 
Zoomit said:
GetOffYourGas said:
I must have missed the announcement where these features were all enabled on the base Model III. In the original reveal, Musk was very careful with his words. What he said was that all of the autopilot hardware would be built into every Model III. What he didn't say is that all the software features to use said hardware would be included.
He was careful with his words. Here it is cued up at 9:43. https://youtu.be/7HOhOeKwe30?t=9m43s

Thanks for the link. Sure enough, I missed the second half of his statement. Of course, all we have are his promises.

I still believe that my Model III (i.e. how I would option it) would end up more expensive than my Bolt. I'm happy to be wrong. And even if the Bolt is more, there are some good reasons I still might choose it over the Model III. So no, I'm not one of those who believes the Model III will make the Bolt irrelevant.
 
DucRider said:
Until you are able to enter into a purchase contract for a car with defined specifications, it's all speculation. What Musk has promised in the past has often changed to accommodate reality. Some aspects of the Model 3 are likely to follow suit.
Of course it's speculation. Let's just use the latest available information in that discussion.

Also, let us also be careful about speculation ending at the "purchase contract for a car with defined specifications", especially when discussing Tesla. There's more than a few Model S owners that had inaccurate assumptions for their car's horsepower or acceleration performance specs at the time of sale. While they seem to be getting better, I personally won't believe the Model 3 acceleration specs until it's independently tested.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
I still believe that my Model III (i.e. how I would option it) would end up more expensive than my Bolt.
Well, that could be because the Model III has some additional options available that you might choose which aren't available on the Bolt. In fact no matter how you option them the Bolt is likely to have some features that the Model III doesn't, and vice versa. So it's a tricky (and very individual) value assignment to judge which one has the better overall value.

And although I acknowledge that these cars will inevitably be compared because of their similar range and price class, as far as I'm concerned it's really an apples and oranges comparison. Yes, the Model III may be more expensive if you equip it with AWD, but if that was something that's important to you then you wouldn't be considering a Bolt anyway.
 
The crux of the matter is that you will not be able to find an exact combination of features available on both the Bolt and Model III. And the two are so close in price, it will probably be in the noise for most buyers.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
This. We know that supercharging will be extra. And I doubt it will be $750, like the Bolt's QC. I wonder what a Model III will cost when comparably equipped to a base Bolt LT. My guess is more than $37,495.
Model 3
Supercharger hardware: Free
Supercharger use: ? (either one time pay or per use)

Bolt EV
CCS hardware: $750
CCS use: Up to network owner, but commonly rather pricey. Example Evgo is $6/session + 20 cents/min.

Bolt loses both ways in this comparison as you have to pay for the hardware and usage where Model 3 is likely for usage.
 
ssspinball said:
GetOffYourGas said:
This. We know that supercharging will be extra. And I doubt it will be $750, like the Bolt's QC. I wonder what a Model III will cost when comparably equipped to a base Bolt LT. My guess is more than $37,495.
Model 3
Supercharger hardware: Free
Supercharger use: ? (either one time pay or per use)

Bolt EV
CCS hardware: $750
CCS use: Up to network owner, but commonly rather pricey. Example Evgo is $6/session + 20 cents/min.

Bolt loses both ways in this comparison as you have to pay for the hardware and usage where Model 3 is likely for usage.

Right. But "supercharger hardware" is left up to interpretation. We don't yet know exactly what that means. Very often, a piece of hardware is included in a delivered product, but left unactivated. In order to actually use it at all, one has to pay to unlock it. I would not be surprised at all to learn that Tesla includes the hardware on all Model IIIs, and then charges $1000 to unlock it at all. Then, once it is unlocked, you pay a per-use fee to connect to the network.

Again, we simply don't know yet. But clearly Musk wants everyone to assume that access to the supercharging network will be included in every Model III. But that's not what he said. He only said the hardware will be present.
 
ssspinball said:
GetOffYourGas said:
This. We know that supercharging will be extra. And I doubt it will be $750, like the Bolt's QC. I wonder what a Model III will cost when comparably equipped to a base Bolt LT. My guess is more than $37,495.
Model 3
Supercharger hardware: Free
Supercharger use: ? (either one time pay or per use)

Bolt EV
CCS hardware: $750
CCS use: Up to network owner, but commonly rather pricey. Example Evgo is $6/session + 20 cents/min.

Bolt loses both ways in this comparison as you have to pay for the hardware and usage where Model 3 is likely for usage.
Comparing the Bolt to the Model 3 and Supercharging to CCS DCFC are both "apples to oranges".

The Bolt is for all intents and purposes available now. We know the production line is tooled up and has produced both prototypes and preproduction units. The Model 3 is still closer to a concept - some specs have been announced, many have not - and is at least a year behind the Bolt (more if you don't: currently have a reservation and own a Tesla now and live on the West Cost of the US and want to buy a fully optioned one for $50K+ and take delivery of what would be a preproduction car or test mule for any other automaker). The only tooling/equipment that exists to produce the Model 3 is the paint booth - and Tesla still has a big round of fundraising coming to get the money needed to purchase and set up an assembly line from scratch. Plus there is the different "form factor" - sedan vs hatchback/small wagon.

On the other hand, Supercharging in 135 kW vs 50 kW CCS on the Bolt. Even if the CCS network expands to cover the same geography as Tesla, the charge time alone makes it much, much less attractive for long distance travel. Cost differential is unkown - if Tesla charges $2,500 to enable Supercharging (that is/was the option price on the S), that leaves $1,750 to pay for CCS charging sessions on the Bolt.

If frequent long distance trips are critical and you don't wan't/need a hatchback, want something near the $35K base level and you are willing to wait a couple of years, the Model 3 is probably your best option.

If you want a 200+ mile EV in the near future, your options are: Bolt, Model S, Model X. LEAF 2.0 could be as early as next summer, but likely a bit later than that.
 
DucRider said:
Cost differential is unkown - if Tesla charges $2,500 to enable Supercharging (that is/was the option price on the S), that leaves $1,750 to pay for CCS charging sessions on the Bolt.

I don't think Model 3 buyers will be as price sensitive as Bolt buyers, and won't mind paying for membership in the Supercharging network. As an example, we buy a golf membership every year, even though the cost/round doesn't always make sense. We do that so we don't have to wait in line to pay for green fees, but also to support the golf course and participate in member events. I think that's comparable to Supercharging vs going with the pay-as-you-go CCS route - you may save more $$$ up front with CCS but then you're on your own, and pay later just to be inconvenienced. I'd pay the $2500 Supercharging lifetime membership fee in a heartbeat, and I'd bet the majority of Model 3 buyers do the same. Membership has it's privileges.
 
I drove a Focus electric 53,000 miles in three years. This is a car with maybe a third the range we expect from the Bolt. I can tell you the number of times I regretted not having supercharging, or even the ability to use some other DCFC system: zero.

I think the importance of public fast charging is overstated. Most charging happens at home, some at work, a tiny bit in the wild.

Since the Bolt has far more range than my Focus did, it will give me more flexibility to take longer trips, which previously I would have taken in the Volt since they would have been impossible in the Focus. But the number will be very few. I will manage with public DCFC, or I will more likely still take the Volt. It's a better choice on a road trip.
 
DucRider said:
On the other hand, Supercharging in 135 kW vs 50 kW CCS on the Bolt. Even if the CCS network expands to cover the same geography as Tesla, the charge time alone makes it much, much less attractive for long distance travel.
That may be overstating it a little.

First, the Superchargers themselves are capable of 145 kW now but that power is shared across two vehicle stalls so it only applies when a single car is plugged in.

Second, individual Tesla cars can't actually draw all that power. The fastest charge I've seen reported by an owner is 117 kW on a Model S90.

Third, it's quite possible and even likely that the Bolt can charge faster than 50 kW. So far, GM has only characterized charging rates when the Bolt is plugged into a 125A "50 kW" CCS station because that is the fastest equipment normally seen in real world installations.

CCS is actually capable of 200A today but the charger hardware actually used is derived from CHAdeMO chargers that were limited by the CHAdeMO specification to a maximum of 125A. In any case, the 60-100 mile 16-24 kWh first generation non-Tesla BEVs generally could not recharge at much more than that rate anyway although the 27-28 kWh Kia Soul can charge at 69-70 kW if plugged into an experimental 200A CHAdeMO charger. Tesla cars with 60 kWh and larger batteries can draw over 300A at 100 kW or more.

From an engineering perspective, the Bolt EV with about 3x the battery size as the first generation BEVs ought to be able to charge at 200A or even faster but GM refuses to give us any clues for now. We should finally get 200A and even 300A or greater CCS (and CHAdeMO) stations installed within a year or two as the specifications are finalized and cars like the Bolt EV start hitting the road that could, theoretically, charge at those higher rates.

Even today with 50 kW CCS it's not that big of a burden to casually drive long-distances occasionally. A trip between Los Angeles and San Francisco would be possible in a Bolt EV today with only 2 stops at 50 kW stations along the way taking up maybe 90 minutes of charging time altogether while grabbing a drink at Starbucks or lunch at a walkable restaurant. That's only slightly less convenient than a similar trip in a Tesla S60. Today you would have to drive on US-101 but the state of California has already funded an additional 41 DC charging locations that should be up and running within a year or two along I-5 and CA-99 from San Diego to the border with Oregon.

The limitation with using the Bolt as a road trip car is likely the DC charging infrastructure and not the car itself. There will likely be great improvements in CA and US national highway charging infrastructure within the next 3-4 years.
 
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