The Chevy Bolt Will Cost $37,495

[oilerlord]

I drove a Focus electric 53,000 miles in three years. This is a car with maybe a third the range we expect from the Bolt. I can tell you the number of times I regretted not having supercharging, or even the ability to use some other DCFC system: zero.

I think the importance of public fast charging is overstated. Most charging happens at home, some at work, a tiny bit in the wild.

We both drive EV's with very limited range so we know better than to stray too far away from our commutes. For that reason alone, DCFC really makes no difference for us. As much fun as wasting 30 minutes every 80 miles on L3, I'd rather take my TDI that can easily go 600 miles on a tank. For Tesla owners however, Supercharging is a big deal. Makes LA to Vegas easy.

 

[michael]

Those of us who live in Southern California are always hearing the definitive objection to an EV: what if I want to go to Vegas??

I ask in response: how many times have you driven to Vegas in the past year? Almost always the answer is: Well, none...

It would be great if someone installs DCFC in Barstow, and I think they should. But if I go to Vegas, I'm taking the Volt. Or Southwest Airlines.

 

[oilerlord]

Those of us who live in Southern California are always hearing the definitive objection to an EV: what if I want to go to Vegas??

I ask in response: how many times have you driven to Vegas in the past year? Almost always the answer is: Well, none...

It would be great if someone installs DCFC in Barstow, and I think they should. But if I go to Vegas, I'm taking the Volt. Or Southwest Airlines.

Actually, we do a road trip from Phoenix to Vegas (and back) every year, which would be big challenge with a Bolt. We also take our dog with us, so it's not exactly feasible to use Southwest for that. There are countless City X to City Y destinations in the US with distances of 250+ miles between them...LA to Vegas is just one recognizable example that makes the point.

As for DCFC, the definitive answer to the objection for the wait time is - hey, just go grab a coffee...like having to wait 30 minutes every 80 miles for your car to charge is the fun, and hip thing to do. It isn't.

 

[michael]

That's sort of my point...once a year a Bolt won't do the job. OK, fine.

Once a year I need to pick up something big and need a van or truck. Once a year I need to go off road. I don't choose my daily car based on that occasional need. A friend was considering getting a 4WD car because once a year he goes skiing....I told him it didn't make sense. Nothing will do the job all the time...one should choose a car that works 95 to 99% of the time, that's all anything can do. The rest of the time, borrow or rent something that does the job.

 

[oilerlord]

That's sort of my point...once a year a Bolt won't do the job. OK, fine.

Once a year I need to pick up something big and need a van or truck. Once a year I need to go off road. I don't choose my daily car based on that occasional need. A friend was considering getting a 4WD car because once a year he goes skiing....I told him it didn't make sense. Nothing will do the job all the time...one should choose a car that works 95 to 99% of the time, that's all anything can do. The rest of the time, borrow or rent something that does the job.

Who said anything about Phoenix to Vegas being the only 250+ mile trip we do in a year? To your point, our EV is the perfect vehicle for us 95% of the time - but sometimes it isn't. It's those times that makes a car that costs more, that can't make trips that we've taken for granted for decades - a tough sell for people that can only afford one car.

 

[SparkE]

That's sort of my point...once a year a Bolt won't do the job. OK, fine.

Once a year I need to pick up something big and need a van or truck. Once a year I need to go off road. I don't choose my daily car based on that occasional need. A friend was considering getting a 4WD car because once a year he goes skiing....I told him it didn't make sense. Nothing will do the job all the time...one should choose a car that works 95 to 99% of the time, that's all anything can do. The rest of the time, borrow or rent something that does the job.

Who said anything about Phoenix to Vegas being the only 250+ mile trip we do in a year? To your point, our EV is the perfect vehicle for us 95% of the time - but sometimes it isn't. It's those times that makes a car that costs more, that can't make trips that we've taken for granted for decades - a tough sell for people that can only afford one car.

I bought an EV because I was 'replacing' my 20-year-old vehicle. I didn't *need* to (no weird noises, no major repair coming,e etc) but a car that old IS (at some point) going to start costing me a bunch to repair. But a 20 year old car isn't worth much - so I kept it instead of selling it for $800. I got an EV for 98% of the time, and drive the other car when we drive over 100 miles on a single trip. So far I've driven the old car 6 one-way trips for a total of about 1000 miles (it's been about 8 months). I didn't have to 'afford' it.

Also, most *families* (not living downtown in large metropolises) have two cars (we always did). If one is an electric, it simply forces you to communicate with your spouse about who drives which car on any particular day - you always have one car which can be used for family trips (or even weekend trips away with the guys). {I actually have 3 cars : the EV, the 'weekly' ICE for when the two of us are out to different places, and the third (old) car that gets 40+ mi/gal that we use for longer trips.}

For *my situation*, the Bolt would be the 2nd car - I'd have 2 EVs. I wouldn't want to take a long trip in it unless :
(1) there's a more dense DCFC network {I can go anywhere in CA down/up I-5, US-101, or CA-99 - or up into OR or WA - but not much further east}
(2) there's a faster DCFC network of 'charge lots' (at least 90 kW) every 150 miles {for trips over 300 miles}

 

[oilerlord]

That's my "situation" too, with the exception that I chose to sell our aging Audi wagon we use for Phoenix trips because the repair bills were getting out of control, and another $2,000 timing belt was on the horizon. High mileage Quattro transmissions are an expensive proposition too. It was time to let it go. $8,000 went toward the B250e.

Our 2012 TDI wagon now serves as our Alberta - Arizona commuter. It's the perfect car for that with it's 45+ MPG on the highways, and freeways in Phoenix. Since I bought the EV, the TDI has been parked since June but we'll be soon making the road trip down south.

For me, a new Bolt would cost $37,495. Sadly, no rebates in Alberta.

 

[DucRider]

That's my "situation" too, with the exception that I chose to sell our aging Audi wagon we use for Phoenix trips because the repair bills were getting out of control, and another $2,000 timing belt was on the horizon. High mileage Quattro transmissions are an expensive proposition too. It was time to let it go. $8,000 went toward the B250e.

Our 2012 TDI wagon now serves as our Alberta - Arizona commuter. It's the perfect car for that with it's 45+ MPG on the highways, and freeways in Phoenix. Since I bought the EV, the TDI has been parked since June but we'll be soon making the road trip down south.

For me, a new Bolt would cost $37,495. Sadly, no rebates in Alberta.

I consider it bad form to tout the benefits of a vehicle that was intentionally designed to be dirtier than allowed by law on a forum dedicated to an EV. If it complied with emissions regulations, it would be both less efficient and have less power. It's fine to say you use your "other car" or "ICE vehicle" for the purposes you described, but no need to s promote such a dirty vehicle on this forum. This is not your first post about how great the TDI is, and you even include it in your signature.

 

[pdxbolt]

I don't subscribe to the "communicating who takes which car" theory. We have two electric cars. We live in the suburbs. Each drives their own car. On rare occasions that need more miles than we have range for, we rent a car. The bolt will eliminate the need for that. I have owned my electric fiat 500 for 3 years. I have never been in a situation where I ran out of juice. Also, I have had no maintenance costs.
None. And charging every single day adds less than $20 to my monthly electric bill.
Good luck with the not so clean tdi.

 

[oilerlord]

I consider it bad form to tout the benefits of a vehicle that was intentionally designed to be dirtier than allowed by law on a forum dedicated to an EV. If it complied with emissions regulations, it would be both less efficient and have less power. It's fine to say you use your "other car" or "ICE vehicle" for the purposes you described, but no need to s promote such a dirty vehicle on this forum. This is not your first post about how great the TDI is, and you even include it in your signature.

I'll assume you have no issue that I share the great experience I've had with my EV on the TDI forum. In doing so, I don't go on an environmental crusade, or call another member's car "dirty", because that is bad form, closes minds, and feeds the ICE vs EV divide. I'll continue to post balanced and honest opinions on both vehicles, and on several forums based on my own personal experience. Yes, on occasion, I drive a TDI, but I won't succumb to political correctness calling it a generic "ICE vehicle". Later this month, my wife and I will give away candy on Halloween, not "Black & Orange" day. If either offends you, too bad.

I also have a link in my signature that points to my 9kW of solar. From time to time, I cash in some of my own NOx and CO2 offsets to enjoy the benefits of my TDI without guilt or remorse.

 

[DucRider]

I consider it bad form to tout the benefits of a vehicle that was intentionally designed to be dirtier than allowed by law on a forum dedicated to an EV. If it complied with emissions regulations, it would be both less efficient and have less power. It's fine to say you use your "other car" or "ICE vehicle" for the purposes you described, but no need to s promote such a dirty vehicle on this forum. This is not your first post about how great the TDI is, and you even include it in your signature.

I'll assume you have no issue that I share the great experience I've had with my EV is on the TDI forum. In doing so, I don't go on an environmental crusade, or call another member's car "dirty", because that is bad form, closes minds, and feeds the ICE vs EV divide. I'll continue to post balanced and honest opinions on both vehicles, and on several forums based on my own personal experience. Yes, on occasion, I drive a TDI, but I won't succumb to political correctness calling it a generic "ICE vehicle". Later this month, my wife and I will give away candy on Halloween, not "Black & Orange" day. If either offends you, too bad.

I also have a link in my signature that points to my 9kW of solar. From time to time, I cash in some of my own NOx and CO2 offsets to enjoy the benefits of my TDI without guilt or remorse.

Sorry if I offended you. In the future I'll call it "not so clean" like you do in your sig.
You highlight how "perfect" your TDI is, and are ignoring some very obvious faults. I am not on an environmental crusade, bit the fact that your other car is a VW Deisel is irrelevant to the fact that it can drive from Alberta to Phoenix - ALL ICE vehicles can accomplish that. Some are more fuel efficient and many pollute less. Touting it's 45 mpg fuel economy that can be achieved only by deliberately creating more pollution than is legal is silly to do on a board dedicated to EV's. If you want to promote the use of "not so clean diesel", this is not the correct forum to do so.

 

[oilerlord]

Sorry if I offended you. In the future I'll call it "not so clean" like you do in your sig.
You highlight how "perfect" your TDI is, and are ignoring some very obvious faults. I am not on an environmental crusade, bit the fact that your other car is a VW Deisel is irrelevant to the fact that it can drive from Alberta to Phoenix - ALL ICE vehicles can accomplish that. Some are more fuel efficient and many pollute less. Touting it's 45 mpg fuel economy that can be achieved only by deliberately creating more pollution than is legal is silly to do on a board dedicated to EV's. If you want to promote the use of "not so clean diesel", this is not the correct forum to do so.

My TDI is far from perfect. Never said it was. In fact, I've become quite accustomed to the zen-like experience of driving my B250e, and that's enough to keep me from driving the TDI unless I have to. It is however perfectly suited for long highway trips. I'm not promoting, selling, or otherwise suggesting that people embrace diesel vehicles...it's simply the car I use on long trips, so it is relevant in terms of my personal experience.

I have no problem discussing the "faults" about any of my cars, but have found that other EV owners would rather not discuss them at all. When the topic comes to range, driving in winter, or how long it takes to charge an electric car, EV enthusiasts straw man the conversation with the virtues of zero maintenance and low cost of ownership. I'm not sure why that is.

 

[DucRider]

My TDI is far from perfect. Never said it was...

Our 2012 TDI wagon now serves as our Alberta - Arizona commuter. It's the perfect car for that with it's 45+ MPG on the highways, and freeways in Phoenix.

????

I have no problem discussing the "faults" about any of my cars, but have found that other EV owners would rather not discuss them at all. When the topic comes to range, driving in winter, or how long it takes to charge an electric car, EV enthusiasts straw man the conversation with the virtues of zero maintenance and low cost of ownership. I'm not sure why that is.

You will not find one post from me that promoted unrealistic expectations from the Bolt or any EV. I have pointed out the even if the CCS network was built out - 50 kW charging does not make long distance freeway travel practical.I am intimately familiar with the shortcomings of winter travel in EV's. The Bolt with it's 238 miles of range is a big step forward, and many trips otherwise not possible with the current generation of EV's become easy. No, you're not going to get 238 miles on the freeway on a night that's 35 degrees (Fahrenheit) and raining. No, you're not going to get the EPA test result of 219 freeway if your traveling at 75-80 mph.

Canada will likely approve a similar buyback program as the US - resale value as of Sept 18th, 2015 + $5-10K penalty. That would allow you to purchase another vehicle that did not blatantly violate emission standards (and still have a little extra money in your pocket). But from the tone of your posts, that likely holds little interest for you as you like the TDI and don't much care about what it is spewing into the atmosphere. I don't expect to change your mind or attitude, but praising the benefits of an EV on a diesel forum is very, very different than praising "not so clean diesel" in an EV forum. Granted, you would likely get flamed in the diesel forum, but don't know why you'd expect anything different here.

 

[SparkE]

You highlight how "perfect" your TDI is, and are ignoring some very obvious faults.

Our 2012 TDI wagon now serves as our Alberta - Arizona commuter. It's the perfect car for that with it's 45+ MPG on the highways, and freeways in Phoenix.

I'm sorry, but saying that a car is 'perfect' for a very specific situation is NOT the same thing as saying that a car is 'perfect'.

I can completely understand having a car used primarily for a 1000+ mile bi-annual commute, and a 45+ mpg diesel does seem to be ONE of the 'perfect' cars for that specific situation. A diesel (and even a VW diesel) probably pollutes less than the vast majority of the cars currently on the road in the U.S. - certainly less than my 20-year-old Toyota that gets 40 mpg highway and much, MUCH less than any commercial diesel bigrig.

Personally, I think his his TDI is the perfect candidate to take off the road 98% of the time, and only be used for long trips.

 

[oilerlord]

Canada will likely approve a similar buyback program as the US - resale value as of Sept 18th, 2015 + $5-10K penalty. That would allow you to purchase another vehicle that did not blatantly violate emission standards (and still have a little extra money in your pocket). But from the tone of your posts, that likely holds little interest for you as you like the TDI and don't much care about what it is spewing into the atmosphere. I don't expect to change your mind or attitude, but praising the benefits of an EV on a diesel forum is very, very different than praising "not so clean diesel" in an EV forum. Granted, you would likely get flamed in the diesel forum, but don't know why you'd expect anything different here.

VW's ethics aside, I'm pretty much over the blatant violation stuff as the CEO has resigned, the company is being held accountable for it, and a fix or buyback is option is available for VW customers. I don't hold VW in the same regard as I used to, but I consider the matter closed. All cars spew something harmful into the atmosphere directly or indirectly, some more, some less.

I am not on an environmental crusade

You suggest a VW TDI buyback, and then "don't expect to change my mind or attitude" about emissions.. You are on an environmental crusade, you just don't realize you're doing it.

 

[DucRider]

You suggest a VW TDI buyback, and then "don't expect to change my mind or attitude" about emissions.. You are on an environmental crusade, you just don't realize you're doing it.

1) The buybacks are settlement of class action lawsuits, not something I am suggesting.
2) My point is that there is absolutely no reason to highlight the fact that your other car is VW Deisel, and the brag about the 45 mpg fuel economy that can only be acheived and maintained by violating emissions standards.

It may or may not be the best option for you (financially or otherwise), but bragging about it's great fuel economy? Really?

 

[oilerlord]

You suggest a VW TDI buyback, and then "don't expect to change my mind or attitude" about emissions.. You are on an environmental crusade, you just don't realize you're doing it.

1) The buybacks are settlement of class action lawsuits, not something I am suggesting.
2) My point is that there is absolutely no reason to highlight the fact that your other car is VW Deisel, and the brag about the 45 mpg fuel economy that can only be acheived and maintained by violating emissions standards.

It may or may not be the best option for you (financially or otherwise), but bragging about it's great fuel economy? Really?

Dude, you're blowing this way out of proportion. I merely stated fuel economy of the car I happen to own. No bragging involved. From experience, it serves me well for highway trips. Period. If I owned a Prius with FE of 45MPG, I would have used that as an example - and I'm sure you wouldn't have flipped out about it. Let's call this for what it is. You have a hate on for diesel vehicles. That's your prerogative.

 

[DucRider]

Dude, you're blowing this way out of proportion. I merely stated fuel economy of the car I happen to own. No bragging involved. From experience, it serves me well for highway trips. Period. If I owned a Prius with FE of 45MPG, I would have used that as an example - and I'm sure you wouldn't have flipped out about it. Let's call this for what it is. You have a hate on for diesel vehicles. That's your prerogative.

Either:
A) You don't get it and never will
or
B) You're being deliberately obtuse

There's no point in continuing the discussion

 

[Aidan]

Another thread on here shows 42,000.00 as the norm

 

[oilerlord]

Dude, you're blowing this way out of proportion. I merely stated fuel economy of the car I happen to own. No bragging involved. From experience, it serves me well for highway trips. Period. If I owned a Prius with FE of 45MPG, I would have used that as an example - and I'm sure you wouldn't have flipped out about it. Let's call this for what it is. You have a hate on for diesel vehicles. That's your prerogative.

Either:
A) You don't get it and never will
or
B) You're being deliberately obtuse

There's no point in continuing the discussion

I've backed up my points, and defended your accusations six ways from Sunday. Personally, I don't judge people on forums by the cars they drive. Rather, I can size up someone pretty quickly from the words they write. You sir, are on an environmental crusade. You deny it, but your words say otherwise. Own it. You may find it liberating.

Sure, let's move on. I heard somewhere that the Chevy Bolt will cost $37,495