Supercharger Abuse - Tesla takes a Stand

[oilerlord]

It's no secret that a number of Tesla owners are taking full advantage (or abusing depending on your point of view) of their "free unlimited supercharging" as stipulated in their sales contracts. Last year, Tesla sent a letter to owners and asked them to limit their use to allow for better access to a larger number of Model S owners.

I received an email from the company that as of December 31, 2016 - the company will no longer offer free unlimited charging on cars sold in 2017 and beyond. To that end Tesla has free Supercharger usage to a limit of 400kWh of per year (again, only on cars ordered after December 31). Clearly, in light of 400,000+ Model 3's soon hitting the market, Tesla needs to solve a Supercharger shortage before it becomes a problem, and is taking steps to do so.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-supercharging-program?redirect=no&utm_medium=email&utm_source=communication&utm_campaign=na-us-newsletter-161110&utm_term=a&utm_content=leads&mkt_id=26374806&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWkRaa00yVmhZekZsTWpCaSIsInQiOiJcLzJ4NXZEbXlUVWxrWTZOWFBjYnBONWxNb2pFcnJGTkFtWGVMRlRuNGVESWhBd25FWkZ6YjFYRW51c21FemVhbHI3TWpreG5YVXRNY0FrTlk4bzBhazdPNjZQQ3ZkMTFIdWZHOFdJbmZ2SlE9In0%3D

 

[michael]

Assuming electricity costs $0.25/kWh, that amounts to a measly $100 worth of electricity a year.

 

[SparkE]

Assuming electricity costs $0.25/kWh, that amounts to a measly $100 worth of electricity a year.

Which is why 'free charging' pisses me off so much. I don't mind so much fast chargers where electricity is always given away for free, as everybody knows what they are in for (lines, waits, maybe not being able to charge). It's the CARDS offered with EVs that allow free charging at otherwise paying fast-charge points. What happens in those cases is that an important resource becomes constrained by cheap *******s using it to 'top up' (and blocking the resource) instead of it being available to those who NEED electricity to get where they are going. What makes it so bad are the c*ck s*ckers who either connect and then WALK AWAY, or insist on filling up the battery to 98% before leaving, at glacial speeds for the last 5-10% while people wait, simply because it's free. This turns what should be a 10-15 min charge into a 50 min charge. Thus, the 50 kW charger is reduced to a 5-8 kW charger and the wait lines get longer.

IF 'no charge to charge' cards are a reality that we must accept, I at least wish that the cards would only be free until (say) 85% of battery capacity is obtained, and then some outrageously expensive cost then kicks in ($1/kwH?). (SoC of battery is available to a DCFC, so this is doable.)

Sorry for my rant - this REALLY pisses me off. As you can guess, this is not an unusual occurrence for me.

 

[michael]

I am totally with you on this.

Public charging should be like drinks at a convenience store...readily available but costly. Do your regular shopping at the supermarket

My place of work provides free charging, but until recently there weren't enough charging stations to go around. This didn't stop selfish people from fully charging by lunch time, driving two miles to lunch, and plugging back in for the entire afternoon because "it's free"

The scarce resource at a public charging station isn't the electricity: It's the spot at the charger. Billing should be by the minute the spot us occupied, whether charging or not

 

[oilerlord]

Tesla brought this on themselves. Their customers paid $2000 for the privilege of unlimited "free" charging. My buddy in Carlsbad pays up to 39 cents + fees per kWh at home. On his Model X - an 80% charge at a supercharger can save him 30 after-tax dollars or more. A lot of us think that rich folks that pay $100K for a car don't care about $30, but the truth is - they do. Some may call him a "cheap *******", or part of the problem, but he's doing nothing wrong.

"Public charging should be like drinks at a convenience store...readily available but costly."

There is a culture of entitlement among a majority of EV owners that equate free public charging as they do free WiFi. They believe that access to free charging is part of making the world a better place, and that businesses and government need to offer it as part of a partnership and responsibility in saving the planet. This has been part of Elon Musk's altruistic vision from the beginning, which has spawned a large following of believers. I think that's also a reason why Tesla owners put themselves first in the EV pecking order.

Courtesy and EV charging etiquette go out the window when the people believe it is simply their right to charge as long as they see fit. Until laws get passed, and there are parking enforcement officers that collect fines, it has to be first come / first served. It isn't worth coming to blows.

 

[SparkE]

I have no problem with people charging (free or not) at a fast charger up to 80% (or 85%) of battery capacity. As long as the charging rate is anywhere close to the max rate (say, down to 50%), more power to them (pun intended). What chafes my ass is the f*cking ***** that stay plugged in to a 50 kW fast charger until they have 98% SoC, although their charge rate has dropped to WELL under 15 kW, and people are waiting. I've seen cars 'charging' at a DCFC at 2 kW !!

I see this *mostly* at NRG sites, for two reasons :
- they are the largest 'no charge to charge' DCFC provider
- Many of NRG's plans impose a 'connection fee' just for using a DCFC. If you are paying $5 to connect, you want to get the most you can.

It's still damn annoying.

But yes, Tesla 'brought this upon themselves', by not thinking this through. The majority of initial superchargers where between cities, and thus really promoted inter-city travel. Instead of adding 'supercharger spots' INSIDE cities, they should have made 'vehicle charging' (up to 80A/220V if the vehicle had dual on-bard chargers) available for emergency electricity, or added 'emergency fast charging' in urban areas for a fee (NOT calling it supercharging, and limiting it to, say, 50 kW so it couldn't be claimed that they were rebranded superchargers, which of course they would have been). Then they wouldn't have put themselves in this spot. They *never* should have added anything lbeled as a 'supercharger' within an urban landscape, and should have concentrated their message as "you can drive long distance in a Tesla - no range anxiety!" I think that the announced (new) supercharging model makes a HELL of a lot more sense and accomplishes the 'long distance' goal they should have concentrated on to begin with. And their 'build outs' (either new stations or expanding existing ones) should really be concentrated along major long-distance routes moving forward. As Teslas become more numerous, the inter-city charging stalls will probably need to be increased. (Say, from 4-6 to 8, or from 6-8 to 10-12, depending on what the max usage patterns show is needed.)

 

[michael]

Free charging probably had a place at one time, when there were very few EVs, and some perk would serve to interest others. I think the time for this has passed.

In California, at one time hybrids got carpool stickers. The Prius was considered a fringe vehicle. At some point, people realized that actually owning a hybrid was reward enough, and the perk was no longer appropriate. We haven't yet reached that point with EVs, but hopefully in time others will see things as we here do. So I do still support giving EVs carpool privileges, however free charging is reaching the point where it hurts other EVers.

I personally trust availability of home charging and my workplace charging. I would be a bit apprehensive about taking a trip that depended on availability of a specific public charger.

SparkE....I concur on your statements about intercity vs urban superchargers

 

[WetEV]

I would be a bit apprehensive about taking a trip that depended on availability of a specific public charger.

When taking trips in the Leaf, I have a plan A charging plan, and a plan B charging plan. Sometimes C and D as well. I prefer paid charging, as it is more likely to be available and working.

 

[SparkE]

I would be a bit apprehensive about taking a trip that depended on availability of a specific public charger.

When taking trips in the Leaf, I have a plan A charging plan, and a plan B charging plan. Sometimes C and D as well. I prefer paid charging, as it is more likely to be available and working.

... until you start running into pricks with a 'no charge to charge' card - then you wait until the jerk has finished charging to 98%.

 

[oilerlord]

Just announced...my city considering to install up to 100 public EVSE's - despite federal funding falling through. This is makes me happy.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonton/2016/11/17/edmonton-city-install-100-charging-stations-electric-cars.html

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/city-officials-pitch-new-electric-car-charging-stations-pilot-project

There are only 170 EV's registered in Edmonton (population: 900,000) and as such, I've never had a problem pulling with finding an open spot to charge my car - though they are still few and far between. I'm hoping they install some DCFC but I'm guessing council will opt for L2 charging because it's easier on the city budget. Regardless, it's a baby step in the right direction.

 

[SparkE]

Congratulations on the new L2s (hopefully) soon installed in your home town.

Recently I made a statement similar to "but then I live in an area where the charging infrastructure is already what it will be like for others 5 years from now" or something along those lines. I think that it was in a DCFC thread, to explain why my viewpoints on FCs and where they are most needed are likely different than others. I pointed out (among other things) that L2 chargers at work, in appt complexes, and in longer-term commerce spots (where people stay for hours, like Malls and Movie theaters) really alleviate the perceived 'need' for really fast chargers in urban centers.

Your news on new L2s reminded me of what happened to me just yesterday. I use (and comment on) PlugShare to locate chargers of all networks (especially non-networked ones) so that I know where I can find them if the need arises. Earlier in the week I had noticed a group of chargers pop up on the ChargePoint app, but that hadn't appeared on PlugShare yet. Yesterday I knew I would be in the area so I checked again, and sure enough still not on PlugShare. Also, surprisingly, the # of plugs had gone up from 8 to 30! So I planned on stopping by to check them out. It turns out that a development Co had bought a huge 'double-wide' city block a few years back, knocked down all the buildings over 20 years old (leaving a few of the more recent ones) and was in the process of putting up new office buildings. A few have just been finished. They also put up a HUGE parking structure inside the lot that would provide parking for all of the surrounding buildings. Half of the structure was finished, and the other half in the middle of being finished but not open yet. The half that was finished was probably somewhere around 1200-1500 parking spots (5 stories). I drove in and started looking, and eventually found the EVSEs. There were over 150 - over half of the top floor of the lot was for EVs! True, this is smack in the middle of Silicon Valley, but I have NEVER seen that large of a public install of EVs in one place. (Well, except for google - but those are reserved for employees.) The developer (who buys lands, then builds and leases), by installing those charging locations has both made the office space more attractive to prospective renters, and made the garage more attractive to prospective parkers. And the charging spots were brilliantly executed! The EV spots were the furthest from elevators and car entrance/exit, thus enticing certain drivers (those with EVs) to fill the 'least' desirable spots (for all but EVs) early, and by driving to the most remote spots, leaving the 'closer' spots available for ICE vehicles. It also eliminates the 'those damn EV drivers get the reserved spots close to the doors' mentality of ICE drivers (it is less exepensive to retrofit electricity installs for EVSEs closest to existing electrical lines, and thus entrances - with new build, it's virtually the same cost).

Anyhow, that is the sort of EV paradise I live in (although I have never seen such a huge install before - generally 4-8 EVSEs get installed at the same time) and why I am so upbeat about the future of EVs. Where *I* live, it is not a problem finding electricity when needed and the infrastructure keeps growing. I am hoping that many major urban locations around the US will soon follow, and that it won't take 5 years for them to do so. Portland did a great 'city center charging' roll out years ago, similar to a bus station idea, but for EVs. They found a spot downtown that was already a destination spot with lots of retail, office, and service providers and installed both L2 and multiple DCFC charging spots. I hear that it was a great success, both for EV users and the surrounding businesses. I am lobbying my local city council to require new development (including major expansion) to provide EV charging locations before they can get permit approval. I am trying for 2% of parking spots (with a min of 2) for all lots that have at least 50 spaces, for retail, office and apartment dvmt.

 

[oilerlord]

Wow, that's amazing! We have a chicken-and-egg situation here in Alberta. 170 electric cars in a city of 900,000. Even with that, I've seen an SUV or two parked in the dedicated EV spots at Ikea - where I'll stop in and have lunch, and catch up on some work while my car charges. Not sure why people do that...but probably because the spots are close to the door. I'd be fine walking across the street. Smart on the developer by not installing the plugs right by the door.

Shortage of public charging isn't the only reason there are so few EV's here. No rebates or tax credits for the purchase of EV's in our province, and other than a Leaf or two, I doubt any of our local dealerships will even bother to bring in a Bolt. Allocation will go to BC, Ontario, and Quebec where EV rebate programs apply.

 

[stephen]

Er, guys, it's the Chevy Bolt forum, unless Chevy has got something to do with this free supercharger issue, I think you're discussing it on the wrong section of the forum.

 

[oilerlord]

The point that's being discussed is that there is a shortage of public chargers - regardless of the brand of EV we drive. Instead of ignoring the issue, Tesla has realized that there won't be enough "free" chargers to go around, especially in light of 400,000 Model 3's that may be hitting the road in a couple of years. For that reason, Tesla is sending letters to owners, encouraging them to charge from home.

With the percentage of EV's being sold this year under 1%, and issues like SparkE (and others) have with public charging...I can only imagine the nightmare it could be if the the percentage of EV's gets to 5% and growth of public charging stays stagnant.

No doubt, this will spark a lot of "I don't care, I charge from home" responses. The truth is, in the big picture; it does matter. For EV's to be widely accepted, we need local governments to get in the game with a LOT more public charging stations, and EV parking spots. If you build them, they will come.

 

[SparkE]

Discussion was moved to off-topic area.

 

[voltage]

Doesn't Tesla have "sponsors" for some of its charging sites. Read and article a couple weeks back that said Tesla has companies pay for the electricity at the charging site and in return gets a sign advertising what company is paying for it. There may be way more to this and I could be wrong but I think that was this jist of the article

 

[michael]

Congratulations on the new L2s (hopefully) soon installed in your home town.

Recently I made a statement similar to "but then I live in an area where the charging infrastructure is already what it will be like for others 5 years from now" or something along those lines. I think that it was in a DCFC thread, to explain why my viewpoints on FCs and where they are most needed are likely different than others. I pointed out (among other things) that L2 chargers at work, in appt complexes, and in longer-term commerce spots (where people stay for hours, like Malls and Movie theaters) really alleviate the perceived 'need' for really fast chargers in urban centers.

Your news on new L2s reminded me of what happened to me just yesterday. I use (and comment on) PlugShare to locate chargers of all networks (especially non-networked ones) so that I know where I can find them if the need arises. Earlier in the week I had noticed a group of chargers pop up on the ChargePoint app, but that hadn't appeared on PlugShare yet. Yesterday I knew I would be in the area so I checked again, and sure enough still not on PlugShare. Also, surprisingly, the # of plugs had gone up from 8 to 30! So I planned on stopping by to check them out. It turns out that a development Co had bought a huge 'double-wide' city block a few years back, knocked down all the buildings over 20 years old (leaving a few of the more recent ones) and was in the process of putting up new office buildings. A few have just been finished. They also put up a HUGE parking structure inside the lot that would provide parking for all of the surrounding buildings. Half of the structure was finished, and the other half in the middle of being finished but not open yet. The half that was finished was probably somewhere around 1200-1500 parking spots (5 stories). I drove in and started looking, and eventually found the EVSEs. There were over 150 - over half of the top floor of the lot was for EVs! True, this is smack in the middle of Silicon Valley, but I have NEVER seen that large of a public install of EVs in one place. (Well, except for google - but those are reserved for employees.) The developer (who buys lands, then builds and leases), by installing those charging locations has both made the office space more attractive to prospective renters, and made the garage more attractive to prospective parkers. And the charging spots were brilliantly executed! The EV spots were the furthest from elevators and car entrance/exit, thus enticing certain drivers (those with EVs) to fill the 'least' desirable spots (for all but EVs) early, and by driving to the most remote spots, leaving the 'closer' spots available for ICE vehicles. It also eliminates the 'those damn EV drivers get the reserved spots close to the doors' mentality of ICE drivers (it is less exepensive to retrofit electricity installs for EVSEs closest to existing electrical lines, and thus entrances - with new build, it's virtually the same cost).

Anyhow, that is the sort of EV paradise I live in (although I have never seen such a huge install before - generally 4-8 EVSEs get installed at the same time) and why I am so upbeat about the future of EVs. Where *I* live, it is not a problem finding electricity when needed and the infrastructure keeps growing. I am hoping that many major urban locations around the US will soon follow, and that it won't take 5 years for them to do so. Portland did a great 'city center charging' roll out years ago, similar to a bus station idea, but for EVs. They found a spot downtown that was already a destination spot with lots of retail, office, and service providers and installed both L2 and multiple DCFC charging spots. I hear that it was a great success, both for EV users and the surrounding businesses. I am lobbying my local city council to require new development (including major expansion) to provide EV charging locations before they can get permit approval. I am trying for 2% of parking spots (with a min of 2) for all lots that have at least 50 spaces, for retail, office and apartment dvmt.

The place where I work recently installed 24 3kW class charging stations plus a Chademo. That's pretty good too. The mistake, IMO, was wasting money on the Chademo which cost a fortune and is essentially never used. For the same money could have installed 100 220V outlets, tell employees to bring their own EVSE.

The 24 stations are enough for now, but I can easily see the time when they won't be enough to go around. Providing 220 outlets is the cheapest, easiest way for an employer to enable workplace charging. Those who need a charge will provide a portable EVSE. Those who are topping off only because "it's free" won't bother.

 

[Norton]

.. Tesla has realized that there won't be enough "free" chargers to go around, especially in light of 400,000 Model 3's that may be hitting the road in a couple of years. For that reason, Tesla is sending letters to owners, encouraging them to charge from home.
...

He can encourage anything he wants.
However the SC enabled cars have a contract for free life-time access to the SC Network.

If you prefer to suck up free electrons instead of paying for them at home, that's your option.
What about the apartment dweller that can't charge at home and bought the Tesla because of the SC access?

 

[michael]

Do they actually have a contract? Or was it advertising talk? Cell phone companies and everyone else change their terms of service all the time.

I got "free unlimited" data with my cell phone. After a while, ATT changed the terms so that if you used too much data you were throttled to dial-up speeds. is there anything in writing that would prevent Tesla from doing something of that sort?

Pretty soon almost everyone on the grandfathered unlimited data plan voluntarily changed to plans with limits. What's to prevent Tesla from providing grandfathered cars maybe 400 kWh per year at full speed, then throttling to L2 speeds?

Or better yet, devising some "abuser" profile. Those who violate this profile get a warning, if repeated they get throttled. That way, if you want to take a summer vacation and supercharge twice a day for a month, you are still OK.

 

[oilerlord]

Do they actually have a contract? Or was it advertising talk? Cell phone companies and everyone else change their terms of service all the time.

The announcement only affects cars ordered after December 31. Owners that have cars with free unlimited supercharging will always have free unlimited supercharging. Nothing has changed, regardless of Elon's attempt to persuade owners to avoid supercharging, and charge from home. With that said, I'd absolutely be one of those "offenders". if I lived in SoCal, and was paying up to $0.39 per kWh you bet I'd suck up free electrons instead of paying 30 after-tax dollars to SDG&E.