So do you think they'll really kill the federal $7500?

[Pigwich]

Who knows? Who COULD know?

That money is important for now. I figure it's giving the manufacturers a little extra cash while they learn how to more efficiently produce the cars and scale things up. Get rid of the $7500 credit and cut GMs taxes to 20%? Suppose they'll pass those tax savings on to the customer so it all balances out?

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if a LOT of EVs get sold in these next two months. The dealers sure would be smart to get them off the lot.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

They’ll phase out sooner or later anyway. But nothing has happened yet. If it’s like their attempt at health care reform, nothing will change.

 

[WetEV]

They’ll phase out sooner or later anyway. But nothing has happened yet. If it’s like their attempt at health care reform, nothing will change.

So far, looks similar. Years to prepare, a plan made in days by a few leaders in private. A plan that the voters mostly hate, once they find out what is in the plan.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/29/opinion/trump-raise-taxes.html


EV credit phase out for GM is soon, as GM has ~145k of the 200k limit to start the phase out. Probably phase out would start in 2018, and would take somewhat more than a year and a quarter. So this might be two years or so early, and abrupt rather than phased out. I'd expect the EV inventory will be pretty lean on December 31, if the tax credit repeal passes.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-02/evs-from-tesla-and-gm-may-start-losing-their-tax-credits

 

[LeftieBiker]

If they do kill the credit (and this is very likely because it can be used by Democrats as a sop to get something else back, and it lacks a strong lobby) I'll almost certainly have to lease a Bolt. That prospect doesn't thrill me - I like comfortable seats and a pleasant ride - but it is what it is. I still haven't test driven a Bolt yet, because the local dealers are asshats about not arranging it except in person. I'll have to drop in on one, I guess. Oh well, at least I'll have an 87% charge limiter!

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Yeah, I had a feeling this could happen. One more reason that pushed me into buying a Bolt last month. While it would suck for the EV market in the short term, it won't affect me personally.

That said, I'm still going to fight to keep it.

https://org.salsalabs.com/o/2711/p/dia/action4/common/public/?action_KEY=22515

 

[LeftieBiker]

I have zero expectation that this campaign will work, but I did participate.

 

[like2bike]

Yeah, I sent my message to congress too. However, NY votes are not the problem anyway. This will probably get further than the emails I send to Scott Pruitt to give him my thoughts on CC though.

 

[LeftieBiker]

However, NY votes are not the problem anyway.

My "Representative" is a conservative Republican named John Faso.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I finally managed to test drive a Bolt yesterday, in anticipation of having to lease a new car before 1/1/2018. I drove a Premiere with Driver Confidence II. Not a long drive, as the range estimator showed 27 miles and the interstate was too busy to make me want to attempt it. I was worried about the driver's seat, and the news was mixed, for me: I immediately felt that intruding bolt on the left side, and the seat was a bit hard, but I believe that with more padding and the bolt replaced with a short one, or at least cut short, I could stand the seat. I'm not impressed with the interior, but could live with it.

The Good:

* Very good visibility. The seat was cranked up and the position was even higher than my Leaf's. The windows generally provide better visibility, although the driver's door pillar seems even thicker than mine.

* Power. I didn't get to floor it to 60, but the car is Peppy.

* Crisp handling.

* One pedal driving, at least at low speed.

The Bad:

* Cheap, hard interior materials.

* Much more road noise.

* Less intuitive and user-friendly controls for things like the cameras and ventilation Recirculate.

* I don't WANT a "leather appointed" interior! I wish the damned LT had the Surround View.

The Just OK:

* The Surround View or whatever it's called isn't quite as nice as Nissan's but it's adequate. The video mirror is ok, but the view is very narrow.

* The ride is more harsh than my Leaf's, but not a lot more. The short wheelbase is at best a mixed bag.

* The styling is even homelier "in person" than in pictures, but not as bad as, say, the Camaro's.

Conclusion:

I wasn't scared away from the car, but it will likely come down to relative cost. I'm getting a lease quote on this car, a 2017 Leaf SV with Premium, and...hoping Nissan has a 'delayed start lease' in the works.

 

[TimBolt]

I finally managed to test drive a Bolt yesterday, in anticipation of having to lease a new car before 1/1/2018. I drove a Premiere with Driver Confidence II. Not a long drive, as the range estimator showed 27 miles and the interstate was too busy to make me want to attempt it. I was worried about the driver's seat, and the news was mixed, for me: I immediately felt that intruding bolt on the left side, and the seat was a bit hard, but I believe that with more padding and the bolt replaced with a short one, or at least cut short, I could stand the seat. I'm not impressed with the interior, but could live with it.

The Good:

* Very good visibility. The seat was cranked up and the position was even higher than my Leaf's. The windows generally provide better visibility, although the driver's door pillar seems even thicker than mine.

* Power. I didn't get to floor it to 60, but the car is Peppy.

* Crisp handling.

* One pedal driving, at least at low speed.

The Bad:

* Cheap, hard interior materials.

* Much more road noise.

* Less intuitive and user-friendly controls for things like the cameras and ventilation Recirculate.

* I don't WANT a "leather appointed" interior! I wish the damned LT has the Surround View.

The Just OK:

* The Surround View or whatever it's called isn't quite as nice as Nissan's but it's adequate. The video mirror is ok, but the view is very narrow.

* The ride is more harsh than my Leaf's, but not a lot more. The short wheelbase is at best a mixed bag.

* The styling is even homelier "in person" than in pictures, but not as bad as, say, the Camaro's.

Conclusion:

I wasn't scared away from the car, but it will likely come down to relative cost. I'm getting a lease quote on this car, a 2017 Leaf SV with Premium, and...hoping Nissan has a 'delayed start lease' in the works.

You test drove a Bolt with only 27 miles of range? Time to find a dealer that cares enough about making a sale to provide a properly charged car for testing. Dealers do have chargers, many have Level 3 high speed chargers that can provide 100 miles of range in well under an hour, especially if the battery is nearly depleted.

 

[TimBolt]

GM will lobby hard to keep the $7500 credit, and many other manufacturers have plants in southern states that lean Republican, so there’s hope the credit won’t be killed. You can bet a lot of state governors are also lobbying on behalf of those manufacturers.

The $7500 credit isn’t a big budget item, so there’s hope it won’t be killed.

It’s too bad these cars don’t run on coal, since that’s the only energy source that will be escaping the budget knife under the proposed legislation. Maybe VW can work on that, now that clean diesel is dead.

It does appear unlikely that the credit will be extended for those manufacturers that will be hitting the 200k car limit, which is bad news for GM, and potentially really bad news for Tesla. The Model 3 is aimed at a mass market buyer that’s much more price sensitive than the Model S luxury buyer. At the rate Tesla’s building the Model 3 (make that hand-building) the credits won’t be available for very many potential owners, as the Model S will have used up nearly all of the available credits some time in 2018.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You test drove a Bolt with only 27 miles of range? Time to find a dealer that cares enough about making a sale to provide a properly charged car for testing. Dealers do have chargers, many have Level 3 high speed chargers that can provide 100 miles of range in well under an hour, especially if the battery is nearly depleted.

This area is not EV friendly. This dealership is the only one with Bolts usually in stock. The level of charge was adequate for the drive I was able to take (I got back with 25 miles on the GOM) so it wasn't an issue. The salesman we dealt with was an older guy, lower on the hierarchy, so he has been helpful and non-aggressive. If I do lease a Bolt I'll make sure he gets the commission.

 

[globecanvas]

This area is not EV friendly

Based on your comments up-thread, we are in the same congressional district but maybe not the same county. Ulster County is getting much more EV friendly; the county, SUNY, and even our local village have installed a bunch of free level 2 stations.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I live in Rensselaer county and the dealership (DeNooyer Chevrolet) is in Albany. And yes, it sounds like your area is better. If it weren't for Price Chopper and Kohl's we'd have no public charging at all.

 

[TimBolt]

News reports today that the Senate version of the tax bill retains the $7500 credit.

We’ll need to wait to see if both the House and Senate versions pass, then it will be up to the conference committee to iron out any differences, before a final bill is voted on in both houses.

Still, that fact that at least a few Republican senators are working on keeping the credit is good news.

 

[Nagorak]

I think there's probably a better than even chance the credit is maintained since the Senate bill keeps it. That being said, I wouldn't say it's certain. However, it's also not even certain the tax bill passes at all considering how hapless the Republican Congress is, and how terrible the overall bill is.

 

[rocstar]

I live in Rensselaer county and the dealership (DeNooyer Chevrolet) is in Albany. And yes, it sounds like your area is better. If it weren't for Price Chopper and Kohl's we'd have no public charging at all.

There are a lot of ads for Bolt leases in Rochester this week! Unfortunately, you probably wouldn't quite be able to drive it home without charging...

I hope they don't kill the tax credit, but I'm not optimistic. It's definitely pushing me to think hard about purchasing this year (maybe this month) - even though they are pushing leases, it seems likely that the lease deals before the end of the year will be better too.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Apparently they have started US Leaf production for the 2018 model so now I'm hoping I can get the paperwork filed to lease one before the year ends. I'd love to have a Bolt as a "play car" but as a daily driver I'd rather be comfortable than fast.

 

[WetEV]

Apparently they have started US Leaf production for the 2018 model so now I'm hoping I can get the paperwork filed to lease one before the year ends. I'd love to have a Bolt as a "play car" but as a daily driver I'd rather be comfortable than fast.

The car has to be in use in the year that the credit is claimed, and you or the leasing company has to have a state title.

https://www.irs.gov/irb/2009-48_IRB

I don't think either is possible until the car is on the dealer's lot.

On the good news side, it seems that the Senate version of the tax bill keeps the EV credit.

 

[Nagorak]

I was thinking of rushing to get a Bolt before year end, just in case, and even managed to find a good deal ($245/month), but ultimately I decided against it. I could afford the lease, but I've only owned my used Leaf for a year, and I didn't want the hassle of having to resell it. I also didn't want to deal with the whole song and dance of getting a new car right now, which would including upgrading the Bolt's sound system (knowing myself that would be a must).

The credit is going away for GM one way or another in the coming year or so because they'll hit the phase out level. Ultimately, EV prices are going to have to come down enough to make up for the credit. We can't achieve mass market penetration with compact cars carrying MSRPs close to $40K and selling prices in the mid 30s.

Meanwhile, the manufacturers have no real choice but to move these EVs due to the CARB requirements. So, either the costs come down, or they'll just have to eat the difference. One way or another, by waiting a year or so, we should be able to get a Bolt at a cost similar to what's available now. On top of that, in December 2019, used Bolts start coming off lease.

My personal plan is to wait until the EV credit phase out for GM next year (assuming it's preserved) and possibly lease a Bolt at that point. If that doesn't work out, then it's only one more year until I'm looking at cars coming off lease (I don't expect the Bolt will be as cheap as the Leaf, but still probably around $10-$15K).

For someone planning to lease/buy within the next six months, it probably won't hurt to move up your purchase, but for those thinking more like a year out I'd say to probably just wait. With EVs time should be on our side in terms of prices.