Second Replacement Battery In Three Months

[rfrench51773]

That's pretty much it: I went to the dealer today to have a software update recall seen to, and they tested my battery (my new battery, as the first high-voltage battery failed in January and was replaced) and found that it has a defective cell and must be replaced. Again.

So. Bad luck, or is this problem a LOT more widespread than they're letting on?

 

[Zoomit]

Well, if it's affecting 1% of the batteries, I think it'd be 1000 to 1 odds of being "lucky" twice.

 

[IMAdolt]

That's pretty much it: I went to the dealer today to have a software update recall seen to, and they tested my battery (my new battery, as the first high-voltage battery failed in January and was replaced) and found that it has a defective cell and must be replaced. Again.

So. Bad luck, or is this problem a LOT more widespread than they're letting on?

First of that sucks, sorry to hear.

Now it's supposed to be a fairly rare occurrence, it happening relatively quickly to the same car would point toward another issue, like the BMS not balancing correctly and causing cells to fail (wild guess) but since you're dealer doesn't "know" they're just going to keep replacing them until the GM/LG engineers that are studying you're problem figure it out, might simply be software.

 

[Sperling3]

That would be 1 in 10,000. (.01*.01)

 

[rfrench51773]

That's pretty much it: I went to the dealer today to have a software update recall seen to, and they tested my battery (my new battery, as the first high-voltage battery failed in January and was replaced) and found that it has a defective cell and must be replaced. Again.

So. Bad luck, or is this problem a LOT more widespread than they're letting on?

First of that sucks, sorry to hear.

Now it's supposed to be a fairly rare occurrence, it happening relatively quickly to the same car would point toward another issue, like the BMS not balancing correctly and causing cells to fail (wild guess) but since you're dealer doesn't "know" they're just going to keep replacing them until the GM/LG engineers that are studying you're problem figure it out, might simply be software.

Definitely occurred to me that it's something else about my car that's killing the battery, but, as you say, they don't know what it is. Or IF it is. The real issue for me, then, is that if this is true, I'll always be at risk of having the car stall and being stranded, and as far as I know, there's no one trying to investigate any specific alternatives.

 

[winterescape]

First off, sorry to hear that, that is most unfortunate and very frustrating.

I am going to venture a slightly different guess. I am going to guess that as the pack is an extremely expensive part, GM has set up a pack rebuild line. Entire affected packs are removed from the car and exchanged for repaired ones. All cells tested and suspect cells replaced, pack sent back out to be swapped. Sounds like it took a bit to be able to detect cells in the early stage of failure.

 

[JeffN]

That's pretty much it: I went to the dealer today to have a software update recall seen to, and they tested my battery (my new battery, as the first high-voltage battery failed in January and was replaced) and found that it has a defective cell and must be replaced. Again.

So. Bad luck, or is this problem a LOT more widespread than they're letting on?

It’s possible that your earlier “new” battery was actually an early-built pack that had been removed from another car, fixed with a module or cell swap, and then installed into your car as a replacement. If it were an early-built pack it would have been more prone to have another bad cell develop. Just a guess...

 

[IMAdolt]

Definitely occurred to me that it's something else about my car that's killing the battery, but, as you say, they don't know what it is. Or IF it is. The real issue for me, then, is that if this is true, I'll always be at risk of having the car stall and being stranded, and as far as I know, there's no one trying to investigate any specific alternatives.

They're not in the business of replacing expensive components for free, they may not care about you as a person or customer in particular but they certainly give a s**t or two about they're bottom line. That means doing as little free service as possible and avoiding recalls, neither of these things make them money.

 

[SeanNelson]

That would be 1 in 10,000. (.01*.01)

Yep, and if there have been 20 to 30,000 Bolts sold so far then we could expect to see 2 or 3 people who have had to have their battery replaced twice...

 

[LeftieBiker]

First off, sorry to hear that, that is most unfortunate and very frustrating.

I am going to venture a slightly different guess. I am going to guess that as the pack is an extremely expensive part, GM has set up a pack rebuild line. Entire affected packs are removed from the car and exchanged for repaired ones. All cells tested and suspect cells replaced, pack sent back out to be swapped. Sounds like it took a bit to be able to detect cells in the early stage of failure.

This reasonable, but it should be noted that it took Nissan almost 7 years to do this with Leaf packs. Part of the reason is that few people would be happy getting a refurbished pack as a replacement on an almost brand new car.

 

[SparkE]

First off, sorry to hear that, that is most unfortunate and very frustrating.

I am going to venture a slightly different guess. I am going to guess that as the pack is an extremely expensive part, GM has set up a pack rebuild line. Entire affected packs are removed from the car and exchanged for repaired ones. All cells tested and suspect cells replaced, pack sent back out to be swapped. Sounds like it took a bit to be able to detect cells in the early stage of failure.

This reasonable, but it should be noted that it took Nissan almost 7 years to do this with Leaf packs. Part of the reason is that few people would be happy getting a refurbished pack as a replacement on an almost brand new car.

Well, first, you shouldn't think that a corp can't learn from another company's mistakes.

Second, (specifically the LEAF) - I believe that for the LEAF, Nissan replaced batteries that had "range fade" past a certain point (? 9 bars?) and only promised to (i.e., warrant said) to bring it up above that point. So, replace the old battery, grab all the best cells from it and combine with best cells from other "recycled" battery packs, and drop it in a 2- or 4- year old vehicle. Then, take the pack removed/replaced under warranty and do the same thing for the next car down the line.

Third, I don't think GM would do #2 at this point (pun intended). They quite likely put aside battery packs for warranty issues, and I bet that those are early packs.

 

[WetEV]

Second, (specifically the LEAF) - I believe that for the LEAF, Nissan replaced batteries that had "range fade" past a certain point (? 9 bars?) and only promised to (i.e., warrant said) to bring it up above that point. So, replace the old battery, grab all the best cells from it and combine with best cells from other "recycled" battery packs, and drop it in a 2- or 4- year old vehicle. Then, take the pack removed/replaced under warranty and do the same thing for the next car down the line.

Yes, the Leaf warranty specifies only to get the battery back above the 9 bar threshold.

As far as I've heard, Nissan has been installing new batteries for warranty replacements. The reason seems to be that the best and the worst cells in a battery are not all that different, so there is little point in sorting.

 

[marshallinwa]

Second, (specifically the LEAF) - I believe that for the LEAF, Nissan replaced batteries that had "range fade" past a certain point (? 9 bars?) and only promised to (i.e., warrant said) to bring it up above that point. So, replace the old battery, grab all the best cells from it and combine with best cells from other "recycled" battery packs, and drop it in a 2- or 4- year old vehicle. Then, take the pack removed/replaced under warranty and do the same thing for the next car down the line.

Yes, the Leaf warranty specifies only to get the battery back above the 9 bar threshold.

As far as I've heard, Nissan has been installing new batteries for warranty replacements. The reason seems to be that the best and the worst cells in a battery are not all that different, so there is little point in sorting.

This article seems to suggest they are starting a recycling process. So maybe going forward things will change for warranty replacements.

https://insideevs.com/nissan-introduces-refabricated-batteries-for-older-leaf-in-japan-from-new-4r-plant/

 

[IMAdolt]

This article seems to suggest they are starting a recycling process. So maybe going forward things will change for warranty replacements.

https://insideevs.com/nissan-introduces-refabricated-batteries-for-older-leaf-in-japan-from-new-4r-plant/

A lot of people doubted by the way things have gone over the last 10 years but I really believe there will be replacement/upgrade paths by the time our 10 year old bolts batteries are getting tired, I hope to see denser energy and hopefully faster recharge rates (I know it'd need hardware upgrades) I want to see a lifetime car or a car I can pass onto my kids, buying a new car every 3-7 years is really just defeating the purpose.

 

[SeanNelson]

...I really believe there will be replacement/upgrade paths by the time our 10 year old bolts batteries are getting tired, I hope to see denser energy and hopefully faster recharge rates (I know it'd need hardware upgrades).

It remains to be seen whether the Bolt will have a long enough run and high enough production to warrant someone investing in the design and tooling for a replacement battery. And with all the proprietary electronic modules so integral to the way it operates I sure wouldn't hold out hope for anything other than a drop-in identical replacement.

 

[LeftieBiker]

With GM coming out with several more EVs in the near future, and at least some of them likely based on the Bolt drivetrain, your best hope would be if they come out with larger, better packs for them that can be adapted to fit the Bolt as well.