Not ready for prime time!

[Anonymous]

Worse yet, is when the overflow of Tesla 3's start flooding our network of CCS/Combo chargers!!!

We need to install anti-Tesla proprietary technology to keep them OFF our chargers!!! :lol:

 

[redpoint5]

Yeah, because "gas" stations that only accept certain models of cars is progressive!

 

[oilerlord]

And if someone else is using it, it is a "fast charge station!"

Someone was using it in Victorville, so I used the other one!

It isn't that simple. It worked out for you this time, but the next time; it may not.

CCS "Fast" charge stations aren't necessarily fast. The charge rate varies from station to station. What if you get there, and there are 2 or more EV's already in line waiting for this charger? In the real world, and as others have mentioned - this DOES happen, even at Tesla Supercharging stations (that actually are fast). What if the station is out of service? What if there's an emergency back home, but you're sitting there with a dead battery? Murphy's law applies. When things can go wrong, they sometimes do.

But really, you understand all this...you've put a lot of miles on your EV so it makes sense that you would. You just choose to suspend reality in making the strange argument that nothing could possibly go sideways on a trip like that.

We want people to have a great experience with their EVs, regardless of what they drive, don't we? Telling people that it's OK to risk getting stranded, or otherwise risk being in a bad situation - is just bad advice. So too is ridiculous talk about "anti-Tesla proprietary technology" at CCS stations. What if others drive a Focus EV, an E-Golf, or a Hyundai Ioniq EV and need a charge (and are willing to pay for it) - do you ban them too?

Instead of helping people, and the EV community, you're more concerned about pushing a position based on nonsense.

 

[Anonymous]

It is amazing how much disinformation about me you want to push into a reply just so you can "rebut" it!

The context of my "fast" charger comment was about the buildout of new chargers where multiples are being proposed to be built! You quote it as if I am advocating that anyone drive into a DCFC without any prepration or research. Of course that is where PlugShare comes in...

But you know this and choose to ignore it as well!!!

You DO NOT want people to have a great experience with EVs. All of your arguments are anti-EV compared to a gas/diesel vehicle, for which you have a fleet! Your only EV is an 2014 compliance model that was outdated the day it was released. You do not drive a long range EV and you certainly never intend to!

And, I guess you have not been on the internet long enough to know that a laughing face emoticon signifies that the preceding comment was A JOKE!!!

Tesla's proprietary technology bars everyone else from using their fast charging network, so I was making a joke about we need to protect ourselves when the Model 3's start to flood our DCFC's! Wake up and smell the internet terminology!!

 

[redpoint5]

CCS "Fast" charge stations aren't necessarily fast. The charge rate varies from station to station. What if you get there, and there are 2 or more EV's already in line waiting for this charger? In the real world, and as others have mentioned - this DOES happen, even at Tesla Supercharging stations (that actually are fast).

I'm in agreement with you, but I'll play devil's advocate for a moment.

There are already plenty of ICE drivers who are willing to wait absurd amounts of time to fill their petrol vehicles. Ever been to a Costco fuel station at rush hour?

I'll point out that some people might be willing to infrequently be inconvenienced a large amount by unfortunate charging circumstances in exchange for not having to be frequently inconvenienced a small amount at petrol stations.

In my case, my household owns more than 1 vehicle, so it makes sense that at least 1 be an EV, and at least 1 have an ICE. I'll always have access to the most convenient vehicle for the trip.

Consumers should have realistic expectations when making purchasing decisions, which means they need to be interested in obtaining knowledge, while the marketing and salesmen (and forums) should be providing the most informative information.

 

[Anonymous]

You are having a devil's advocate debate with a shill whose agenda here is not clear...

 

[redpoint5]

You are having a devil's advocate debate with a shill whose agenda here is not clear...

Oilerlord has provided enough commentary to surmise his agenda:

We want people to have a great experience with their EVs, regardless of what they drive, don't we?

There is no other evidence to suggest I shouldn't take him at his word.

Devil's advocate is what I do with most subjects that have differing opinions. There is no better way to draw conclusions than to consider alternative points of view thoroughly.

I'll point out that ad hominems have no logical merit, so with that said, what is your agenda?

 

[Anonymous]

I'll point out that ad hominems have no logical merit, so with that said, what is your agenda?

Before I reply can you point out for me where I utilized ad hominems?

Superceded by a later post!

 

[oilerlord]

I'm in agreement with you, but I'll play devil's advocate for a moment.

There are already plenty of ICE drivers who are willing to wait absurd amounts of time to fill their petrol vehicles. Ever been to a Costco fuel station at rush hour?

I'll point out that some people might be willing to infrequently be inconvenienced a large amount by unfortunate charging circumstances in exchange for not having to be frequently inconvenienced a small amount at petrol stations.

I have. No doubt, Costco can be a busy place to fill up your car.

Some people will choose to spend an absurd amount of time to save a few cents at Costco instead of choosing to pay a few cents more to fuel up immediately across the street. The difference with DCFC (in it's current form) is that some people will spend an absurd amount of time - and pay a lot more than charging at home because they have no other choice.

 

[Anonymous]

Some people will choose to spend an absurd amount of time to save a few cents instead of choosing to pay a few cents more to fuel up immediately across the street. The difference with DCFC (in it's current form) is that some people will spend an absurd amount of time - and pay a lot more than charging at home because they have no other choice.

What does that tell you about the importance of people's personal statements about zero emissions and not putting more carbon into the atmosphere?

 

[Anonymous]

You are having a devil's advocate debate with a shill whose agenda here is not clear...

I'll point out that ad hominems have no logical merit, so with that said, what is your agenda?

Since you're still online and have not responded to my question (as to what I said that was an ad hominem), I will answer it for you.

Since my statement was so short, you must be referring to my reference to his being a "shill."

Shill is not an ad hominem; it is a noun, broadly defined as: "to act as a spokesperson or promoter!" (Merriam Webster)

An ad hominem is defined as: "marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made." (Merriam Webster)

My agenda here is clear from the day I put down a deposit on the Bolt EV last July to when I drove it off the lot on January 3rd:

I want to share my experiences and learn as much as I can about the experiences of others!

I have no patience for those naysayers who come into a forum like this, do not own a long range EV, yet have plenty of negative things to say about the Bolt and EVs in general and I will speak my mind in response to them!

I don't care what your agenda is, because. so far, your posts have been intelligent and instructive, even if you didn't catch on to the fact that my comment about adding proprietary technology to DCFC's to keep out Tesla's was a joke! --> :lol: This means it is a Joke!!

 

[oilerlord]

Some people will choose to spend an absurd amount of time to save a few cents instead of choosing to pay a few cents more to fuel up immediately across the street. The difference with DCFC (in it's current form) is that some people will spend an absurd amount of time - and pay a lot more than charging at home because they have no other choice.

What does that tell you about the importance of people's personal statements about zero emissions and not putting more carbon into the atmosphere?

I was responding to Redpoint's "devil's advocate" counterpoint in terms of how people choose to spend (in his words) "an absurd amount of time". I agreed with it. Some people do choose to spend an absurd amount of time at Costco just as some people do choose to spend an absurd amount of time at a DCFC station.

Personally, my time is valuable to me...if the line at Costco appears to be more than 10 minutes, I'd just fill up somewhere else. With DCFC, I wouldn't (yet) have that option because of the relative lack of DCFC stations compared to the availability of gas stations. In all candor, I rarely fill up at Costco anyway since at least 90% of my day to day driving is done with my EV. I choose to fill up my wife's and other cars at a local supermarket where I've never had to wait for a pump, and the discount is bigger than what Costco offers.

I don't understand the strawman comment regarding the environment...were accusing me of something or asking me a question?

 

[oilerlord]

You DO NOT want people to have a great experience with EVs. All of your arguments are anti-EV compared to a gas/diesel vehicle, for which you have a fleet! Your only EV is an 2014 compliance model that was outdated the day it was released. You do not drive a long range EV and you certainly never intend to!

Wow, you're good. In the time it took to read one thread on the Internet, you seem to have completely figured me out. The lack of smiley emoticons indicate you aren't joking around.

 

[SeanNelson]

Real Bolt EV owners?

Links please?

This 29-page thread should get you started:
http://www.chevybolt.org/forum/162-chevy-bolt-ev-likes-dislikes/6506-front-seats-ouch.html

And another Bolt owner who said that after driving it for a while any problem was barely noticeable! And another kept saying he loved his seats!

Didn't I say that most Bolt owners were happy with their seats?

To recap, you said:

...however in my anecdotal experience, no actual Bolt EV owner that I have met has any complaints about the seats, once they learn to sit in them properly. It seems to be another suspicious anonymous internet complaint!

And I provided you with a thread in which several Bolt owners complained, often quite bitterly, about the seats. So I hope you at least realize now that it really is an actual issue for some people.

 

[Anonymous]

And I provided you with a thread in which several Bolt owners complained, often quite bitterly, about the seats. So I hope you at least realize now that it really is an actual issue for some people.

Yes, it is a real issue for some Bolt EV owners/leasees, but yet overblown by many non Bolt EV owners on these threads!

Once again I agree with your advice:

Don't take somebody else's word on Bolt seat comfort. Go take an extended test drive and judge for yourself.

If there's anything that the seat controversy has taught us, it's that this is essential advice.

The blame with this issue lay with the purchasers/leasees who just did not test drive the vehicle and see how comfortable the seats were before they purchased/leased it!

It amazes me that on the one hand people here will criticize Bolt EV owners/leasees newbies for not understanding why they made a mistake for not getting the optional DCFC input jack ("do the research"; "let the buyer beware" but are happy to criticize GM instead of the buyers/leasees for the small minority of complaints over subjective seat discomfort!

 

[Anonymous]

Some people do choose to spend an absurd amount of time at Costco just as some people do choose to spend an absurd amount of time at a DCFC station. My complaint with you is that you "load" up your language with self-defining words that are not necessarily true! "When did you stop beating your wife? is the best example of this type of language!

Here you are comparing the optional waiting in line at a Costco with the ease of going across the street for a quicker gas fillup at a higher price with a DCFC experience. But it is a false equivalency! A one hour charge at a DCFC which brings my Bolt EV back up to 80% cannot be compared to a cheaper Level 2 charger across the street that would take 6 hours!

In all candor, I rarely fill up at Costco anyway since at least 90% of my day to day driving is done with my EV. According to the Car & Driver review of you 2014 Compliance vehicle, you get 85 miles per charge. Obviously your commuting needs are satisfied within that limited capacity, and your other needs are taken care of by your fleet of gas/diesel vehicles. Not everyone has this capability of a fleet of other vehicles!

I choose to fill up my wife's and other cars at a local supermarket where I've never had to wait for a pump, and the discount is bigger than what Costco offers. Here in Los Angeles, there is NO such option that I have ever found! You are very lucky. Perhaps that is because you live in a Province of Canada that is oil rich!

I don't understand the strawman comment regarding the environment...were accusing me of something or asking me a question? Once again, pejorative words like "strawman." You made this comment:

Some people will choose to spend an absurd amount of time to save a few cents instead of choosing to pay a few cents more to fuel up immediately across the street. The difference with DCFC (in it's current form) is that some people will spend an absurd amount of time - and pay a lot more than charging at home because they have no other choice.

My point, simply, is that many people will pay more to purchase an EV and pay more to install Electrical infrastructure in their garage, and perhaps to pay more to use DCFC (albeit with some tax credits available) because they like the idea of a zero emission vehicle; a concept you never seem to factor into any of your arguments against EV use! I wasn't accusing you of anything, nor asking you anything; just making that point!

You DO NOT want people to have a great experience with EVs. All of your arguments are anti-EV compared to a gas/diesel vehicle, for which you have a fleet! Your only EV is an 2014 compliance model that was outdated the day it was released. You do not drive a long range EV and you certainly never intend to!

Wow, you're good. In the time it took to read one thread on the Internet, you seem to have completely figured me out. The lack of smiley emoticons indicate you aren't joking around.

You have consistently criticized every long range use of EVs that requires the use of a DCFC on this forum that I have come across, and indicated the obvious choice is a gas/diesel vehicle! You make ad hominem attacks against me, but I respond attempting to stick to the facts and the issues. You can dish it out, but you seem unable to then defend your own positions when challenged!

I have repeatedly asked you what your "agenda" is here on a Bolt EV forum since you do not own/lease one and clearly do not ever intend to do so, but you consistently ignore that request!

 

[redpoint5]

You are having a devil's advocate debate with a shill whose agenda here is not clear...

I'll point out that ad hominems have no logical merit, so with that said, what is your agenda?

Since you're still online and have not responded to my question (as to what I said that was an ad hominem), I will answer it for you.

Since my statement was so short, you must be referring to my reference to his being a "shill."

Shill is not an ad hominem; it is a noun, broadly defined as: "to act as a spokesperson or promoter!" (Merriam Webster)

An ad hominem is defined as: "marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made." (Merriam Webster)

My agenda here is clear...I want to share my experiences and learn as much as I can about the experiences of others!

...you didn't catch on to the fact that my comment about adding proprietary technology to DCFC's to keep out Tesla's was a joke! --> :lol: This means it is a Joke!!

A shill, especially in the context in which you use it, means someone who has ulterior motives to promote an idea, or disparage a competing idea.

An ad hominem challenges the character of a person rather than the issues being discussed.

Therefore, calling someone a shill (claim of ulterior motives) is an ad hominem (against the person rather than against the ideas presented by the person). The reason ad hominems are used is to convince others to dismiss the claims made by someone, without even examining the claim. It's a distraction from considering the differing factual claims.

That said, I did assume your DCFC comment was a joke, and added to it with my own, just in case others might think it's actually a good idea. Perhaps I should have used an emoticon as well.

 

[oilerlord]

My complaint with you is that you "load" up your language with self-defining words that are not necessarily true! "When did you stop beating your wife? is the best example of this type of language!

If you're referring to "an absurd amount of time", I was merely quoting another member's description - word for word. Otherwise, it's kind of creepy that you used "wife beating" in the narrative. Weird.

Here you are comparing the optional waiting in line at a Costco with the ease of going across the street for a quicker gas fillup at a higher price with a DCFC experience. But it is a false equivalency! A one hour charge at a DCFC which brings my Bolt EV back up to 80% cannot be compared to a cheaper Level 2 charger across the street that would take 6 hours![/b]

How is that "false"? If I cross the street, I can fill up to 100% in 5 minutes or less. On a "fast" charge, it takes you an hour to get to 80%.

According to the Car & Driver review of you 2014 Compliance vehicle, you get 85 miles per charge. Obviously your commuting needs are satisfied within that limited capacity, and your other needs are taken care of by your fleet of gas/diesel vehicles. Not everyone has this capability of a fleet of other vehicles!

I notice that you have a problem with compliance cars. I'd point out that a lot of members on this board also drive limited-range compliance EV's and are happy with them. Some of us even have a second gas/diesel vehicle.

Here in Los Angeles, there is NO such option that I have ever found! You are very lucky. Perhaps that is because you live in a Province of Canada that is oil rich!

Our province is oil rich, not sure how that applies. Another strawman perhaps? I find it hard to believe there are no gasoline loyalty programs in LA. They are common in Phoenix, AZ. Fry's supermarket offers a great discount on gas & diesel. That said, I don't really care where you choose to buy gasoline, or electricity for your cars.

My point, simply, is that many people will pay more to purchase an EV and pay more to install Electrical infrastructure in their garage, and perhaps to pay more to use DCFC (albeit with some tax credits available) because they like the idea of a zero emission vehicle; a concept you never seem to factor into any of your arguments against EV use! I wasn't accusing you of anything, nor asking you anything; just making that point!

The OP titled this thread "Not ready for prime time!" and went on to describe (and I quote) "We rolled into the Excalibur 5 hours later than planned stressed but alive.". in his experience the car isn't ready for prime time because of how long it took him to arrive. For some, the car isn't ready for prime time because the seats are uncomfortable. Zero emissions is another strawman, and is irrelevant. The fact the Bolt has zero emissions wouldn't have allowed the OP to arrive in Vegas any sooner, or make the seats more comfortable.

You have consistently criticized every long range use of EVs that requires the use of a DCFC on this forum that I have come across, and indicated the obvious choice is a gas/diesel vehicle!

Is it a criticism, or merely observations? In another thread, a member posted a similar trip from Palm Springs to Phoenix. It took a lot longer with his Bolt than it would in a vehicle that uses gasoline. It's a fact, not a criticism. For that reason, I'd rather drive my VW on a trip between Palm Springs to Phoenix (and actually have) rather than attempting it with any 200 mile EV. Clearly, you'd drive your Bolt on that trip, and accept that it takes longer. I have no issue with that.

I have repeatedly asked you what your "agenda" is here on a Bolt EV forum since you do not own/lease one and clearly do not ever intend to do so, but you consistently ignore that request!

Probably because it's a stupid question, one that doesn't require and/or deserve an answer. The price of admission on this forum doesn't require having a Bolt in my garage.

 

[Anonymous]

A shill, especially in the context in which you use it, means someone who has ulterior motives to promote an idea, or disparage a competing idea. You are correct!

An ad hominem challenges the character of a person rather than the issues being discussed. You are correct!

Therefore, calling someone a shill (claim of ulterior motives) is an ad hominem (against the person rather than against the ideas presented by the person). You are wrong, here! This is why I kept asking him what his "agenda" was, because as a shill, he has an ulterior motive; an agenda! He has NEVER responded to my multiple requests for what his agenda is, which adds fuel to my argument that indeed, he is a shill! If he has nothing to hide, then let him say so!

The reason ad hominems are used is to convince others to dismiss the claims made by someone, without even examining the claim. It's a distraction from considering the differing factual claims.

That said, I did assume your DCFC comment was a joke You don't have to assume, I TOLD you it was a joke and explained the use of the laughing emoticon!

, and added to it with my own, just in case others might think it's actually a good idea. Perhaps I should have used an emoticon as well.

OK, thank you very much!

 

[Anonymous]

[

I have repeatedly asked you what your "agenda" is here on a Bolt EV forum since you do not own/lease one and clearly do not ever intend to do so, but you consistently ignore that request!

Probably because it's a stupid question, one that doesn't require and/or deserve an answer. The price of admission on this forum doesn't require having a Bolt in my garage.

You are very skilled at avoiding the issues I raise in my rebuttals to you, attempting to divert attention to irrelevant or even shocking side issues, making ad hominem attacks on me, etc.

These skills are most present by someone who is trained in the field of marketing and/or public relations and whom come to social networks such as these to promote a specific agenda of the company that is providing them financial compensation.

So for example:

While it is a widespread example to use "When have you stopped beating your wife" in the context I used it, you twist it as some form of creep, wierd ad hominem attack on me!

If you do not understand the concept of "false narrative" then I am not going to bore these forum readers and myself any further; educate yourself. Your statement was a clear example of it!

Here is another example of your raising a false issue just to strike it down! You never asked me if there are loyalty programs in LA; you just assume there are none and then criticize the lack of them! If you had asked me, I would have told you, that even with loyalty programs, Costco's prices are still cheaper!

You don't observe; you criticize! Go back and read your posts!

And finally, yes, the price of admission does not require ownership/lease of a Bolt, but THAT was NOT the issue. The issue is your agenda in consistently criticizing its use in long range driving and who/what/why you are doing so? The agenda so to speak!

I am really done with this issue because it is obvious you are not going to disclose who/what/why you sit in Alberta Canada and post so many negative posts about the Bolt EV here...