Nissan and BMW offering Epower

Chevy Bolt EV Forum

Help Support Chevy Bolt EV Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
DucRider said:
This is a simplified version of how the Volt functions. One of the things that makes the Volt such a great car is the ability to switch between serial and parallel hybrid modes, and even some that essentially combine both. As one example, in "Mountain Mode" with ~<50% SOC the engine will be used to supplement the two electric motors. This is apparently how Motor Trend got a 0-60 time 1.3 seconds faster than GMs official time.
I'm not sure from your answer if you still think the 2016+ Volt will start the engine to help propel the car at times when the battery has usable energy and is thus not an EREV. Is this what you still think or did I convince you that it won't start the engine if you floor the accelerator? If you still think the 2016+ Volt is just a PHEV and not an EREV then please cite your source of information and explain why you believe this.

Note that the 2016+ Volt no longer has a series mode. It now always runs with a mechanical path between the engine and wheels either in one of two power-split modes or in a direct fixed gear mode.

For more information on how the 2016+ Volt works in detail here is a link to an article for which I was the lead author:

http://gm-volt.com/2015/02/20/gen-2-volt-transmission-operating-modes-explained/
 
Holy Dina this will take me a while to read through n try n piece together. Excellent feedback thx again
 
ginforce said:
Holy Dina this will take me a while to read through n try n piece together. Excellent feedback thx again
Here's some extra credit reading:

Revenge of the Two-Mode Hybrid
http://gm-volt.com/2015/11/06/125426/
 
JeffN said:
DucRider said:
This is a simplified version of how the Volt functions. One of the things that makes the Volt such a great car is the ability to switch between serial and parallel hybrid modes, and even some that essentially combine both. As one example, in "Mountain Mode" with ~<50% SOC the engine will be used to supplement the two electric motors. This is apparently how Motor Trend got a 0-60 time 1.3 seconds faster than GMs official time.
I'm not sure from your answer if you still think the 2016+ Volt will start the engine to help propel the car at times when the battery has usable energy and is thus not an EREV. Is this what you still think or did I convince you that it won't start the engine if you floor the accelerator? If you still think the 2016+ Volt is just a PHEV and not an EREV then please cite your source of information and explain why you believe this.

Note that the 2016+ Volt no longer has a series mode. It now always runs with a mechanical path between the engine and wheels either in one of two power-split modes or in a direct fixed gear mode.

For more information on how the 2016+ Volt works in detail here is a link to an article for which I was the lead author:

http://gm-volt.com/2015/02/20/gen-2-volt-transmission-operating-modes-explained/
My original premise is that EREV is a subset or type of PHEV with no legal definition recognized by any regulatory agency.
For rebates, sales figures, HOV access, ZEV credits, etc. - they are treated exactly like any other PHEV.
Toyota could legally market the Prius Prime as an EREV and make an argument that it met the definition.
Yes, the Volt can be classified as an EREV, but that is (at this point at least) only a marketing term.

The only regulatory category differentiating PHEV's primarily designed to operate in electric mode (with the ICE as a backup) is the CARB/ZEV designation of BEVx.
Basic criteria for these vehicle include:

the APU range is equal to or less than the all-electric range;

engine operation cannot occur until the battery charge has been depleted to the charge-sustaining lower limit;

a minimum 80 miles electric range; and

super ultra low emission vehicle (SULEV) and zero evaporative emissions compliant and TZEV warranty requirements on the battery system.

For the 2012 through 2017 model years, BEVxs will be referred to as Type I.5x and Type IIx vehicles, to fit in with the pre-2018 nomenclature for ZEVs. Type I.5x and Type IIx vehicles will receive the same credits as Type I.5 and Type II ZEVs: 2.5 and 3 credits, respectively. Up to 50% of the portion of the ZEV requirement that must be met with pure ZEVs may be met with these Type I.5x and Type IIx vehicles.

The Volt is treated as a TZEV like any other PHEV.
 
I think you now agree that the 2016+ Volt is an EREV and will never start the engine to help propel the car when the battery has usable energy due to the driver flooring the accelerator or due to the car's vehicle speed.

In any event, yes CARB doesn't recognize EREV. EREV is not a regulatory characteristic. It is a useful name for a PHEV drivability characteristic that is important and useful to some customers who want to avoid unintentionally running the gas engine due to driving technique.

And yes, CARB does recognize BEVx. In fact, they invented it and BMW chose to restrict the i3's behavior to qualify for that designation thus seriously degrading the performance of the car with the range extender engaged on longer uphill road grades and preventing the car from being driven at prolonged speeds over 70 mph on a flat highway.

In Europe, without the BEVx nonsense the i3 range extender can be manually engaged early during a long trip while the battery still has a substantial charge so even if the engine cannot fully keep up with power needs above 25 kW the battery will only lose its state of charge very slowly. But even in Europe you would have to frequently stop to refill the tiny gas tank. It's really meant to get you to the next charging station rather than for prolonged driving on gasoline on longer-range driving trips. The Volt is a fully powered car on either electric or in gasoline hybrid mode.

Although the i3 REx might not startup to assist in cabin heating under very cold conditions like the Volt does it will still start the gas engine when usable range is remaining in the battery for periodic engine lubrication reasons.
 
JeffN said:
ginforce said:
Holy Dina this will take me a while to read through n try n piece together. Excellent feedback thx again
Here's some extra credit reading:

Revenge of the Two-Mode Hybrid
http://gm-volt.com/2015/11/06/125426/

Extra credit....lol. Thx
 
Back
Top