New article about leases

[pegpie]

GM says it now offers Chevy Bolt EV lease ‘nationwide’ for $329, but good luck getting it

https://electrek.co/2017/04/12/gm-chevy-bolt-ev-lease-nationwide/

 

[michael]

Electrek is a Tesla fan boy site.

They currently have 2105 articles about Tesla and 72 about General Motors. The Tesla stock price is on their front page.

There are plenty of Bolts available. I could buy a hundred this afternoon if I wanted to.

Another spin they could have put on it would have been

For 1559 down and $329 a month, the effective cost of a Bolt is now down to $363 a month in California, slightly higher outside of CARB states. Since the Bolt qualifies for $2500 clean air rebate in California, it actually costs less than the Volt which costs only $10 a month less but qualifies for only $1500 clean air rebate.

At this price, only determined Tesla die-hards will want to wait for a Model 3


But for some reason they chose to express it differently

 

[tedkidd]

... or people who want a car that looks great and they can drive more than just regionally.

Having driven the Bolt, I like it. I like it a lot. And as I drive a Smart currently, calling the Bolt ugly would be silly. But a car with dubious charging options, and a maximum charge rate of 150 mph where it IS available, that's the killer for me.

 

[ssspinball]

... or people who want a car that looks great and they can drive more than just regionally.

Nailed it. I also like the Bolt a lot and may even buy one, but the Tesla has a lot more going for it than the Bolt does. The supercharger network has no realistic competition at this point.

 

[user 1034]

Nailed it. I also like the Bolt a lot and may even buy one, but the Tesla has a lot more going for it than the Bolt does. The supercharger network has no realistic competition at this point.

It depends where you are at.

Here in the Denver area there are 2 SuperChargers. There are 3 DCFC stations here and MANY more level 2s about town. Buying a Tesla here only gets you access to 2 more chargers if you use adapters. Hell, there are a lot of the CHAdeMO chargers around here to make a Nissan more worth it than a Tesla.

I'm sure your part of the US is well saturated with SuperChargers so Tesla is probably best for you.

 

[michael]

The map of superchargers is impressive, but so is Verizon's map of 4G LTE coverage. However neither make any difference to me. 200 mile range will do the job 99% of the time with convenient home charging; and if I want to go to South Dakota, which I never will, I'll take my Volt and not worry that ATT has only 3G coverage.

 

[ssspinball]

Here in the Denver area there are 2 SuperChargers. There are 3 DCFC stations here and MANY more level 2s about town. Buying a Tesla here only gets you access to 2 more chargers if you use adapters. Hell, there are a lot of the CHAdeMO chargers around here to make a Nissan more worth it than a Tesla.

Teslas can use L2 also, so that can be ignored for comparison purposes.

The 2 superchargers in Denver have 10 plugs between them. The 3 DCFCs have ONE plug each for a total of 3 plugs. So even in Denver city limits the supercharger network wins! And you also have to consider the very real possibility (as anyone that frequently uses DCFC can attest to) that the one DCFC plug will either be occupied or broken when you get there. Since there's no backup, what are you supposed to do then? Twiddle your thumbs?

Now when you zoom out from Denver, you can see how easily a Tesla can travel outside the metro area in every direction a major highway leads, whereas with CCS you can basically head North or South. If you head any other direction you are dead in the water.

Saying "I'll just use my gas car for those trips" is besides the point.

 

[bravo]

I got a quote in writing today. I just had to be forceful.

 

[Juniper49]

Nailed it. I also like the Bolt a lot and may even buy one, but the Tesla has a lot more going for it than the Bolt does. The supercharger network has no realistic competition at this point.

It depends where you are at.

Here in the Denver area there are 2 SuperChargers. There are 3 DCFC stations here and MANY more level 2s about town. Buying a Tesla here only gets you access to 2 more chargers if you use adapters. Hell, there are a lot of the CHAdeMO chargers around here to make a Nissan more worth it than a Tesla.

I'm sure your part of the US is well saturated with SuperChargers so Tesla is probably best for you.

I live in the Denver area and wondered where the Level 3 chargers are located that you have found?

 

[BarfOMatic]

Nailed it. I also like the Bolt a lot and may even buy one, but the Tesla has a lot more going for it than the Bolt does. The supercharger network has no realistic competition at this point.

It depends where you are at.

Here in the Denver area there are 2 SuperChargers. There are 3 DCFC stations here and MANY more level 2s about town. Buying a Tesla here only gets you access to 2 more chargers if you use adapters. Hell, there are a lot of the CHAdeMO chargers around here to make a Nissan more worth it than a Tesla.

I'm sure your part of the US is well saturated with SuperChargers so Tesla is probably best for you.

I live in the Denver area and wondered where the Level 3 chargers are located that you have found?

I don't want to get waaaay off-topic here (it would prob be best to continue any discussion in a "local" forum post) , but to answer your question about DCFCs "in" (closest to) Denver :

Download/sign up for PlugShare (.com). Looking in PlugShare, the two CCS DCFCs are at :

- BMW of Denver Downtown (1030 S Colorado Bd, Denver; ChargePoint,
- Tyans Nissan (780 S Havana St, Aurora; , EVgo )

There are a few more EVgo DCFC chargers in the periphery (around Denver - ?suburbs?)

 

[DucRider]

I live in the Denver area and wondered where the Level 3 chargers are located that you have found?

I don't think there are but one or two L3 charging stations in the US (outside of Tesla Superchargers).

There are, however, 11 CCS DCFC locations between Boulder and Castle Rock. Go to plugshare and filter for them.

AC L3 is defined by SAE standards as >20kW.
DC L3 is > 90 kW.
http://www.sae.org/smartgrid/chargingspeeds.pdf

The Bolt, although rated at 80 kW, struggles to achieve a 50 kW charge rate so faster chargers would not be of much benefit. The IONIQ can (on paper) utilize L3 DC with it's 100 kW CCS DCFC spec.

 

[tedkidd]

Here in the Denver area there are 2 SuperChargers. There are 3 DCFC stations here and MANY more level 2s about town. Buying a Tesla here only gets you access to 2 more chargers if you use adapters. Hell, there are a lot of the CHAdeMO chargers around here to make a Nissan more worth it than a Tesla.

Teslas can use L2 also, so that can be ignored for comparison purposes.

The 2 superchargers in Denver have 10 plugs between them. The 3 DCFCs have ONE plug each for a total of 3 plugs. So even in Denver city limits the supercharger network wins! And you also have to consider the very real possibility (as anyone that frequently uses DCFC can attest to) that the one DCFC plug will either be occupied or broken when you get there. Since there's no backup, what are you supposed to do then? Twiddle your thumbs?

Now when you zoom out from Denver, you can see how easily a Tesla can travel outside the metro area in every direction a major highway leads, whereas with CCS you can basically head North or South. If you head any other direction you are dead in the water.

Saying "I'll just use my gas car for those trips" is besides the point.

Yeah.

Comparing Superchargers that have multiple stations per location and charge at up to 400 mph, to CCS stations that charge at 150 mph and only have 1 or 2 plugs - and the uncertainty that creates - is weak sauce/borderline disingenuous (if you are well informed).

Supercharger access makes EV's real ICE car replacements, and it's likely to be the only thing that does for the rest of this decade.
http://bit.ly/superchargersNmore

 

[scooter123]

NEVER put anything down on a lease including taxes!!

If something happens to the car, your insurance pays off the lease
and then you are out of the car, your DP, your taxes and your trade-in - if there was one.

Here is my deal I'm getting on my premier with fast charging.
10K 0 down 348 /mo 60 months.

 

[oftheseven]

NEVER put anything down on a lease including taxes!!

If something happens to the car, your insurance pays off the lease
and then you are out of the car, your DP, your taxes and your trade-in - if there was one.

Here is my deal I'm getting on my premier with fast charging.
10K 0 down 348 /mo 60 months.

You're doing a 5 year lease?

 

[LeftieBiker]

NEVER put anything down on a lease including taxes!!

If something happens to the car, your insurance pays off the lease
and then you are out of the car, your DP, your taxes and your trade-in - if there was one.

Rather than tell people "never!" I just tell them to not put down more than they are willing to risk losing. Making a down payment will often get you a better lease deal, so if you rarely or never have accidents, it can be an acceptable risk/bet. Having a lower monthly payment also helps a lot if you get a lease extension or three (I'm on my third extension of my $159 a month lease.)

 

[scooter123]

"Having a lower monthly payment also helps a lot if you get a lease extension"

Can you explain what this is.. ? I have never heard of a lease extension?

PS My neighbor out of nowhere crashed his car (Fainted at the wheel) so he was out his trade in, down payment
and now had no car.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Lease extensions are just what they appear to be: extensions of the original lease terms. They usually run 6 or 12 months, although most manufacturers will also do a "month to month" extension, especially if you are waiting for one of their new models. Even the fixed extensions can usually be ended early with no penalty. If you have a low monthly payment because you made a substantial down payment or got a great deal, then extending the lease will result in a lower total cost to lease over time. If you have a high payment, then extensions don't usually make sense. One caveat: the warranty is not extended, so if the original warranty period runs out while you are on an extension, you become responsible for any repairs not covered by the usually-longer powertrain warranty. I'm in my 5th year of a two year lease because Nissan has offered multiple extensions and because my payment is super-low, but I now have only my EV powertrain warranty remaining. I intend to be driving either a 2018 Leaf or 2018 Bolt by the time that ends.

 

[michael]

Lease extensions are just what they appear to be: extensions of the original lease terms. They usually run 6 or 12 months, although most manufacturers will also do a "month to month" extension, especially if you are waiting for one of their new models. Even the fixed extensions can usually be ended early with no penalty. If you have a low monthly payment because you made a substantial down payment or got a great deal, then extending the lease will result in a lower total cost to lease over time. If you have a high payment, then extensions don't usually make sense. One caveat: the warranty is not extended, so if the original warranty period runs out while you are on an extension, you become responsible for any repairs not covered by the usually-longer powertrain warranty. I'm in my 5th year of a two year lease because Nissan has offered multiple extensions and because my payment is super-low, but I now have only my EV powertrain warranty remaining. I intend to be driving either a 2018 Leaf or 2018 Bolt by the time that ends.

That's not necessarily true. I looked into a lease extension of my previous Volt, and US Bank agreed to do so but only at a significantly increased monthly rate. The banks are smart enough to know that people may try to extend leases with extremely low monthlies and they are not obligated to go along. So this may or may not work

 

[LeftieBiker]

Then what I wrote applies to manufacturer-supplied leases (NMAC, GMAC, Toyota's leasing arm, etc). Third party leases may vary.