Ms. Barra's '18 Bolt to-do list

[user 124]

add heat pump for heat, garage door opener

+1 to those!

 

[oilerlord]

>> Journalists are notorious for tearing cars apart and nitpicking more than most owners do

For the most part, this is no longer the case. Most of the Bolt reviews you're reading are pretty much the notes some millennial blogger took while on a media junket funded by the maker. You want to be invited back for the next boondoggle, you'd better write good stuff about our car. It's understood. And 80% - 90% of the reviews I've seen so far were from these media junkets. Further more, 99% of car reviews are now written on some blog by someone with dubious credentials for reviewing cars. Most of what I've seen is obviously copied almost verbatim from the media notes handed out by GM PR at the event.

There are a few serious reviews out there. In my opinion, the best reviews will be found right here, written by real people as they live with this car over the next few months. I'll take the reviews of other forum owners over some "journalist" every time.

I think the early reviews are also tainted by the fact that the reviewers are totally starstruck by a cheap EV with this range. They're so enamored of it, they're totally ignoring all the stuff they'd normally nit pick. If it weren't an EV, the gripe list would be a long one (crappy tires, ugly styling, horrible charge performance, nasty seats, cheap hard interior plastics, width-challenged interior). But the Bolt gets a free pass until it has some competition. So I'd take the journalist "reviews" with some skepticism.

Well said. I agree 100%. This is the reality of "professional reviews". Objectivity and integrity are challenged by perks and advertising revenue. Owners are under no such burden, and simply tell it like it is. You'll learn a lot more about a car from someone that's driven one for 5,000 miles than you will from a "professional" with 10 minutes of seat time.

 

[boltage]

Normal and Sport. Can't really tell the difference yet but I'll be conducting some experiments in the very near future. Throttle response isn't wretched, just a little softer with what seems like a tiny bit of delay when accelerating hard. It's a minor quibble though.

The way I understand the sport button is that it just changes the mapping from accelerator position to amount of power delivered. For example, with the accelerator 1/3 down in sport mode, more power is delivered than with the accelerator 1/3 down in normal mode. But they should be the same with the accelerator not pressed or floored.

 

[JupiterMoon]

>> Journalists are notorious for tearing cars apart and nitpicking more than most owners do

For the most part, this is no longer the case. Most of the Bolt reviews you're reading are pretty much the notes some millennial blogger took while on a media junket funded by the maker. You want to be invited back for the next boondoggle, you'd better write good stuff about our car. It's understood. And 80% - 90% of the reviews I've seen so far were from these media junkets. Further more, 99% of car reviews are now written on some blog by someone with dubious credentials for reviewing cars. Most of what I've seen is obviously copied almost verbatim from the media notes handed out by GM PR at the event.

There are a few serious reviews out there. In my opinion, the best reviews will be found right here, written by real people as they live with this car over the next few months. I'll take the reviews of other forum owners over some "journalist" every time.

I think the early reviews are also tainted by the fact that the reviewers are totally starstruck by a cheap EV with this range. They're so enamored of it, they're totally ignoring all the stuff they'd normally nit pick. If it weren't an EV, the gripe list would be a long one (crappy tires, ugly styling, horrible charge performance, nasty seats, cheap hard interior plastics, width-challenged interior). But the Bolt gets a free pass until it has some competition. So I'd take the journalist "reviews" with some skepticism.

Well said. I agree 100%. This is the reality of "professional reviews". Objectivity and integrity are challenged by perks and advertising revenue. Owners are under no such burden, and simply tell it like it is. You'll learn a lot more about a car from someone that's driven one for 5,000 miles than you will from a "professional" with 10 minutes of seat time.

Apparently owners are complaining about the seats after 10 minute test drives as well....so I don't put too much stock in what owners say either. Journalists may be swayed but so are owners if not more so.

There are professional reviewers out there who I take their opinions with merit...and not a single one of them has had issues with the seats so far. And for all the griping about seats, only THREE people so far have actually put the effort into registering their complaints on this site as I suggested and TWO out of those three were OK with the seats....that's after 21 pages of whining and complaining on the "Seats are a deal killer" thread.

 

[michael]

add heat pump for heat, garage door opener

+1 to those!

Totally concur

 

[oilerlord]

And for all the griping about seats, only THREE people so far have actually put the effort into registering their complaints on this site as I suggested and TWO out of those three were OK with the seats....that's after 21 pages of whining and complaining on the "Seats are a deal killer" thread.

I'm guessing that owners that go through the effort of "registering their complaints" would choose to take action that might yield results - such as taking it up with their dealer and / or GM customer relations. Beyond that, there is already a 21 page thread that's discussing the seats six ways from Sunday.

 

[Fargoneandout]

add heat pump for heat, garage door opener

+1 to both of those.

 

[dan2112]

And for all the griping about seats, only THREE people so far have actually put the effort into registering their complaints on this site as I suggested and TWO out of those three were OK with the seats....that's after 21 pages of whining and complaining on the "Seats are a deal killer" thread.

I'm guessing that owners that go through the effort of "registering their complaints" would choose to take action that might yield results - such as taking it up with their dealer and / or GM customer relations. Beyond that, there is already a 21 page thread that's discussing the seats six ways from Sunday.

I am waiting for the customer survey for the car - I really don't think the dealers will give/pass feedback to GM unless they can't move the cars. "Customer Relations" is a euphemism for the "bit-bucket" in my opinion.

Hitting GM up on twitter, Facebook, surveys and forums are good sources for feedback. I would expect GM to at least check see how customers are reacting to the car after launch. This would be a good place to check.

 

[oilerlord]

Dan, there is a big difference between "feedback" and "registering a complaint". Responding to a survey or griping in a forum like this one gets you nowhere.

For those that really do feel the seats are uncomfortable and/or cause pain - book a service appointment for the issue so that it gets logged into their system. If after they look at the seats, and the service advisor blows you off, talk to the service manager. No results at that point? Talk to the general manager, then to the district manager. The point is, don't let it go and keep going up the ladder until they offer something. Perhaps they can't fix the seats, but they can offer money towards an aftermarket solution.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Dan, there is a big difference between "feedback" and "registering a complaint". Responding to a survey or griping in a forum like this one gets you nowhere.

For those that really do feel the seats are uncomfortable and/or cause pain - book a service appointment for the issue so that it gets logged into their system. If after they look at the seats, and the service advisor blows you off, talk to the service manager. No results at that point? Talk to the general manager, then to the district manager. The point is, don't let it go and keep going up the ladder until they offer something. Perhaps they can't fix the seats, but they can offer money towards an aftermarket solution.

Social media is far more effective than any of those steps these days. Bad PR is far more effective in mobilizing action than any complaint filed at a dealership or even at GM.

Signed petitions online or a list of owners who have complaints that can then be published or put online will catch their attention in one go. So far, as far as I can see, the verbal complaints are far outweighing actual people putting the effort into documenting their complaints. I suggested a few line items that would take less than 3 minutes to fill out. There has been almost no participation.

 

[oilerlord]

Social media is far more effective than any of those steps these days. Bad PR is far more effective in mobilizing action than any complaint filed at a dealership or even at GM.

Signed petitions online or a list of owners who have complaints that can then be published or put online will catch their attention in one go. So far, as far as I can see, the verbal complaints are far outweighing actual people putting the effort into documenting their complaints. I suggested a few line items that would take less than 3 minutes to fill out. There has been almost no participation.

Jupe, there's a process. It starts with booking a service appointment, and if you receive "no fault found" paperwork from that appointment, you document names of the GM people you've spoken with, and the results of those conversations. Once you get near the top, you then explain the steps you took to that point - the next step being a social media campaign, including a link to the "seats are a deal killer" thread along with others that are discussing the issue.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Social media is far more effective than any of those steps these days. Bad PR is far more effective in mobilizing action than any complaint filed at a dealership or even at GM.

Signed petitions online or a list of owners who have complaints that can then be published or put online will catch their attention in one go. So far, as far as I can see, the verbal complaints are far outweighing actual people putting the effort into documenting their complaints. I suggested a few line items that would take less than 3 minutes to fill out. There has been almost no participation.

Jupe, there's a process. It starts with booking a service appointment, and if you receive "no fault found" paperwork from that appointment, you document names of the GM people you've spoken with, and the results of those conversations. Once you get near the top, you then explain the steps you took to that point - the next step being a social media campaign, including a link to the "seats are a deal killer" thread along with others that are discussing the issue.

I understand. There is a process...but it takes little to no effort to also make a record of it online and in social media. I'm not saying don't go to the dealer and complain. I'm saying it usually is pointless and ends in a lot of time wasted and effort.

 

[iletric]

If this is one and only Bolt site, and even if it's not, GM IS WATCHING and taking note.

Are they going to do something about it? Class action lawsuit is the only way. American Corporations will do absolutely nothing, particularly with a 1% penetration product, unless they lose in court.

There will be no new/improved replacement seats for '17 Bolt. Count on that. None... Zero. Zip. Zilch. You paid the invoice and signed on the dotted line.

 

[oilerlord]

If this is one and only Bolt site, and even if it's not, GM IS WATCHING and taking note.

Are they going to do something about it? Class action lawsuit is the only way. American Corporations will do absolutely nothing, particularly with a 1% penetration product, unless they lose in court.

There will be no new/improved replacement seats for '17 Bolt. Count on that. None... Zero. Zip. Zilch. You paid the invoice and signed on the dotted line.

I'm a little more optimistic than that. All automakers have customer relations departments, and (while it doesn't always happen) it's their job to resolve disputes and keep customers happy.

This isn't a scandal. GM didn't lie to anyone about the seats and/or make false claims about them. As fun as lawsuits are, there will be no class action here. Caveat emptor applies. What it comes down to is how far people want to go with this, and if it's really worth the effort. For me, if the dealer flipped me $100 and a free car wash - I'd probably pick up one of those $25 Walmart cushions and be done with it.

Drive more, worry less.

 

[DucRider]

If this is one and only Bolt site, and even if it's not, GM IS WATCHING and taking note.

Are they going to do something about it? Class action lawsuit is the only way. American Corporations will do absolutely nothing, particularly with a 1% penetration product, unless they lose in court.

There will be no new/improved replacement seats for '17 Bolt. Count on that. None... Zero. Zip. Zilch. You paid the invoice and signed on the dotted line.

I'm a little more optimistic than that. All automakers have customer relations departments, and (while it doesn't always happen) it's their job to resolve disputes and keep customers happy.

This isn't a scandal. GM didn't lie to anyone about the seats and/or make false claims about them. As fun as lawsuits are, there will be no class action here. Caveat emptor applies. What it comes down to is how far people want to go with this, and if it's really worth the effort. For me, if the dealer flipped me $100 and a free car wash - I'd probably pick up one of those $25 Walmart cushions and be done with it.

Drive more, worry less.

This. It's not always somebody else's fault.
Booking a service appointment to fix something that is functioning 100% as designed is a waste of everybody's time.
More people find them acceptable than not. My wife is very picky about seats/seating position and uses various lumbar and other cushions in almost every car she drives. The Bolt seats were fine for her.

She does, however, have a strong dislike for the cranked forward head rests common in many new cars and present on the Bolt. I can explain all day about why they are designed that way, but that will never make her like them - just learn to live with them.

If seats are a higher priority than room, power and range, look at the 2017 Focus Electric with the optional leather. Net cap cost on those are ~$21K (Ford has a ~$2,500 incentive for delivery by 4/3/17 and uses the $7,500 tax credit as a CCR).

Another option is the B250e - it lives up to the Mercedes name for interior finish and ride quality. Interior room is comparable to the Bolt, but you get less range and pay more. Interestingly, the B250e was the second most popular car in the Portland Auto Show EV Showcase (behind the Bolt but excluding the Model X and White Zombie). We couldn't keep the spec sheet in stock. The deal killer for most was the price/range/value proposition. If the Mercedes had the range of the Bolt (or even close), no telling what the potential would be.

 

[user 744]

She does, however, have a strong dislike for the cranked forward head rests common in many new cars and present on the Bolt. I can explain all day about why they are designed that way, but that will never make her like them - just learn to live with them.

Indeed! The headrests on my CMax can just barely get back far enough to be comfortable. They are easily adjustable, but you have to figure that out unless you like reading owner's manuals.

 

[dan2112]

I am wondering if the seats were designed with US markets in mind. A lot of the design team are in Korea. Could it be they designed for the "rest-of-the-world" size butts? :twisted:

 

[EldRick]

As to the "cranked forward head rests," the posts that support them can be bent back to get some space between them and the drivers head.

 

[oilerlord]

Another option is the B250e - it lives up to the Mercedes name for interior finish and ride quality. Interior room is comparable to the Bolt, but you get less range and pay more. Interestingly, the B250e was the second most popular car in the Portland Auto Show EV Showcase (behind the Bolt but excluding the Model X and White Zombie). We couldn't keep the spec sheet in stock. The deal killer for most was the price/range/value proposition. If the Mercedes had the range of the Bolt (or even close), no telling what the potential would be.

My B250e is the poor-man's Tesla - except without the range. I'm not surprised that the B-Class garnered a lot of interest at the show because it's a beautiful car inside & out, but at near $50K (with popular options), that's where the interest usually comes to a halt. Used, low mile ones can be had for half that price. That's where the B is a great value - at least it was for us.

I love driving my B, but after 7,000 miles, I've come to detest it's bulk. All that roominess and luxury comes at cost, and that's it's weight taxing it's efficiency. The car also uses high-strength steel, so this is no carbon fiber glider. I wish my B was 1000 pounds lighter. It would turn the Queen Mary into something closer to America 1. My wife is looking to replace her BMW 330, so we're shopping i3 REx models.

 

[bxd20]

The car is 16" shorter than a Volt.

That goes a long way towards understanding why the ride is choppy, especially on heaved pavement at highway speeds. Magnetorheoligical dampers at this price point aren't going to happen. And if GM softens the suspension, they will get an earful of criticism from car magazines and enthusiasts.

Your best bet would be to dump the low rolling resistance tires, and replace them with a premium all-season radial that skews towards comfort over handling. That would soften up the ride quite a bit.

The car is also 2" narrower than a Volt.

That goes a long way to explaining why they couldn't use Volt seats.

I wish the Bolt had been designed 2-3" wider and 12" longer. For comfort, practicality of hauling a family, and size needed to make it a good weekend retreat car would have been satisfied. Here's hoping GM still gives us something in the Acadia size range for $50,000.

The most we can reasonably expect from GM at this point is to redesign the front seats for 2018 and offer some type of customer satisfaction campaign for 2017 owners that are unhappy.