How Much I Paid for My Bolt

[SeanNelson]

I have never purchased a car this close to launch before, but was pretty surprised to hear from the dealer that they wanted a refundable deposit, but supposedly had no idea what offers/leasing would be available on the Bolts which are supposed to hit their show floors(and theoretically go straight out the door) within days/weeks.

Of course it has to be refundable because the final deal has been negotiated yet. But hey, if someone wants to front the dealership some money in order to buy a car at an unknown price, why the heck wouldn't they take them up on it?

 

[JupiterMoon]

I'll wait a few months and not get reamed.

 

[JupiterMoon]

I've never leased (or even had a car loan) but it seems to me most people who do are working towards a manageable monthly payment rather than total cost of ownership. If the leasing company doesn't play it straight with the tax credit this seems like an invitation for a ripoff. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems like leasing is a bad way to go. With the depreciation built in it seems like you can't possibly come out ahead unless the car depreciates faster than the leasing company assumes.

It's extremely easy to calculate your lease right at the dealership as the guy is moving his mouth trying to rip you off. The formula is very very simple and you can shove it in their face when they try and screw you.

They won't like it but who cares what they like.

 

[JupiterMoon]

If you don't understand that when you lease your entire federal tax credit goes straight to the leasing company, which, out of the limited goodness of their hearts they may return to you, in part, in the form of an inflated residual or reduced capitalization, then you are a fool, full stop.

If you don't know how much of that tax credit you could put in your own pocket, in cash, then you are a fool, full stop.

If you don't at least ask whether the manufacturer is offering equal value incentives to cash buyers as they are to leasers, then you are a fool, full stop.

And most importantly, if you honestly believe you can outsmart the leasing companies playing their game on their home court, then I've got a bridge for sale, cheap.

The math is all in. Leases are fine for people who (1) can't afford to buy, (2) can't claim the entire tax credit, (3) have always had car payments and can't imagine being without them, or (4) look forward to owning a new car every few years.

Believe it or don't, but not everyone is in any of those categories. Those people aren't fools, in fact they might very well be more financially capable than the people who do fit into those categories.

It's up to you to negotiate the price and cap cost of the vehicle when you lease...if you get screwed it's on you and no one else. If the dealer or leasing company doesn't give you the deal or price you want or they are withholding the credits, you walk...it's that simple. So to assume buying is better is truly very very foolish.

 

[michael]

Rydell has just published this lease offer:

2017 Bolt EV Sample Lease:

$279 +tax
with $3,450* due at signing
Based on MSRP of $37,495


*$3,450 includes includes sales tax, license,*dealer, bank and government fees and first month's payment
36 month term $0 security deposit. 25 cents per mile over 10,000 miles per year.
+Includes $2,500 Factory rebate available only to California and Oregon state residents.
+Does NOT include private offers, or California State rebates. CLICK HERE for more information on state rebates you might qualify for.

So I read this as equivalent to about 370 + tax on a zero driveaway lease ($3450/36 = $100/month) for a base model with 10K miles.

Not bad...about $50 more would get a premier I would estimate. Not too far from my "I'll take it" price.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Rydell has just published this lease offer:

2017 Bolt EV Sample Lease:

$279 +tax
with $3,450* due at signing
Based on MSRP of $37,495


*$3,450 includes includes sales tax, license,*dealer, bank and government fees and first month's payment
36 month term $0 security deposit. 25 cents per mile over 10,000 miles per year.
+Includes $2,500 Factory rebate available only to California and Oregon state residents.
+Does NOT include private offers, or California State rebates. CLICK HERE for more information on state rebates you might qualify for.

So I read this as equivalent to about 370 + tax on a zero driveaway lease ($3450/36 = $100/month) for a base model with 10K miles.

Not bad...about $50 more would get a premier I would estimate. Not too far from my "I'll take it" price.

That's A LOT out of pocket up front on a lease...definitely NOT a good deal in my book.

You can get a BMW i3 Rex fully loaded ($50k+) with less money down than that for $350 a month including tax. And that is a very decent vehicle with some cutting edge tech in it.

 

[BoltyMcBoltFace]

You can get a BMW i3 Rex fully loaded ($50k+) with less money down than that for $350 a month including tax. And that is a very decent vehicle with some cutting edge tech in it.

Yes, and when I was at Target yesterday I saw two i3s parked next to each other. Once Bolt sightings are that common you can expect that the lease deals will be better. For the first few months it was on sale an i3 was more like $500 a month.

 

[michael]

Rydell has just published this lease offer:

2017 Bolt EV Sample Lease:

$279 +tax
with $3,450* due at signing
Based on MSRP of $37,495


*$3,450 includes includes sales tax, license,*dealer, bank and government fees and first month's payment
36 month term $0 security deposit. 25 cents per mile over 10,000 miles per year.
+Includes $2,500 Factory rebate available only to California and Oregon state residents.
+Does NOT include private offers, or California State rebates. CLICK HERE for more information on state rebates you might qualify for.

So I read this as equivalent to about 370 + tax on a zero driveaway lease ($3450/36 = $100/month) for a base model with 10K miles.

Not bad...about $50 more would get a premier I would estimate. Not too far from my "I'll take it" price.

That's A LOT out of pocket up front on a lease...definitely NOT a good deal in my book.

You can get a BMW i3 Rex fully loaded ($50k+) with less money down than that for $350 a month including tax. And that is a very decent vehicle with some cutting edge tech in it.

Yes, that's a lot out of pocket, and I said that one should ONLY get zero driveaway leases. The $100 adjustment compensates for that. So approximately 370/month plus tax zero driveaway. What is the going price these days for an I3, fully loaded, zero driveaway? That's the way to compare

And further, as the next poster said, the BMW, when it first came out, was horrendously expensive. Only now that the supply equals demand and it is a 100 mile car in a 200 mile world is it down in price.

What's the lease on any other 200 mile EV? The cheapest Tesla is 780/month with 6500 down, $960 a month equivalent zero driveaway

 

[JupiterMoon]

You can get a BMW i3 Rex fully loaded ($50k+) with less money down than that for $350 a month including tax. And that is a very decent vehicle with some cutting edge tech in it.

Yes, and when I was at Target yesterday I saw two i3s parked next to each other. Once Bolt sightings are that common you can expect that the lease deals will be better. For the first few months it was on sale an i3 was more like $500 a month.

Yes it was but it's also 10-15K more expensive.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Rydell has just published this lease offer:

2017 Bolt EV Sample Lease:

$279 +tax
with $3,450* due at signing
Based on MSRP of $37,495


*$3,450 includes includes sales tax, license,*dealer, bank and government fees and first month's payment
36 month term $0 security deposit. 25 cents per mile over 10,000 miles per year.
+Includes $2,500 Factory rebate available only to California and Oregon state residents.
+Does NOT include private offers, or California State rebates. CLICK HERE for more information on state rebates you might qualify for.

So I read this as equivalent to about 370 + tax on a zero driveaway lease ($3450/36 = $100/month) for a base model with 10K miles.

Not bad...about $50 more would get a premier I would estimate. Not too far from my "I'll take it" price.

That's A LOT out of pocket up front on a lease...definitely NOT a good deal in my book.

You can get a BMW i3 Rex fully loaded ($50k+) with less money down than that for $350 a month including tax. And that is a very decent vehicle with some cutting edge tech in it.

Yes, that's a lot out of pocket, and I said that one should ONLY get zero driveaway leases. The $100 adjustment compensates for that. So approximately 370/month plus tax zero driveaway. What is the going price these days for an I3, fully loaded, zero driveaway? That's the way to compare

And further, as the next poster said, the BMW, when it first came out, was horrendously expensive. Only now that the supply equals demand and it is a 100 mile car in a 200 mile world is it down in price.

What's the lease on any other 200 mile EV? The cheapest Tesla is 780/month with 6500 down, $960 a month equivalent zero driveaway

I don't know why you guys are pushing so hard to justify the price of the lease of the Bolt. Or for that matter why some are so protective of GM's new product. It's expensive regardless of what you compare it to. Comparing it to a Tesla is pointless as the car is in a different league altogether.

My business partner leased an i3 Rex 3 months ago for $325/month with $1000 down including tax for 36 months and 15K miles per year. His car was around $51K in price and has pretty much all the bells and whistles. That is truly an excellent lease.

I personally don't care what brand I'm talking about. I'm not committed to any one brand nor will I push one brand over the other. At the end of the day what makes sense is what it comes down to. The Bolt steps up the game as the "affordable" long range EV. That much is true. But it's not a revolutionary vehicle in any other way other than the range.

For me, some other factors also matter. How environmentally friendly the entire vehicle is as well. Anyway that's a topic for a different thread.

 

[michael]

My business partner leased an i3 Rex 3 months ago for $325/month with $1000 down including tax for 36 months and 15K miles per year. His car was around $51K in price and has pretty much all the bells and whistles. That is truly an excellent lease.

Yes, you are right, that is a truly excellent lease on a $51K car. Obviously BMW is subsidizing the lease considerably to move product. That's the point...the 80 mile I3 is obsolete, and the 120 mile i3 (which one did your partner get?) is obsolescent in a 240 mile world.

The fact that the car has a $51 sticker price doesn't make it worth that any more.

I'm so supportive of the Bolt because it's the only 200 mile class car at a price I can afford. Nothing else is like it.

 

[JupiterMoon]

My business partner leased an i3 Rex 3 months ago for $325/month with $1000 down including tax for 36 months and 15K miles per year. His car was around $51K in price and has pretty much all the bells and whistles. That is truly an excellent lease.

Yes, you are right, that is a truly excellent lease on a $51K car. Obviously BMW is subsidizing the lease considerably to move product. That's the point...the 80 mile I3 is obsolete, and the 120 mile i3 (which one did your partner get?) is obsolescent in a 240 mile world.

The fact that the car has a $51 sticker price doesn't make it worth that any more.

I'm so supportive of the Bolt because it's the only 200 mile class car at a price I can afford. Nothing else is like it.

The i3 has technology the Bolt simply doesn't have. Stuff that I mentioned earlier. It's not just about the range for me. It's the whole package. And when most people drive less than 40 miles a day, 120 miles or 180 with the Rex is plenty. I've survived 3 years with my Spark EV with 90 miles of range so I'm not too concerned.

 

[leodoggie]

Can we all stop all this bickering and savor the moment. An American company GM has designed, built and delivered the first truely practical and affordable EV. A momentous day indeed.

 

[michael]

Can we all stop all this bickering and savor the moment. An American company GM has designed, built and delivered the first truely practical and affordable EV. A momentous day indeed.

Exactly. They did as you said above, and people complain because it doesn't have this, that or the other feature.

I said long ago...if it will go 200 miles at freeway speeds and is leases out in the low 400's, I'm in

 

[zappcatt]

I will almost certainly be leasing as car technology (powertrain + autonomous driving) is changing at the fastest rate in the history of the automobile and it makes economic sense to take advantage of EV rebates multiple times while they still exist.

Good call. I wonder how many folks are going to outright buy the car, and further, if this EV's resale value will hold - or drop like a stone like other compliance cars. I'm guessing it will be the latter. In a couple of years, If it's value drops by 50% (or more), it would become the used car deal of the century.

For the Bolts Lease, the residual is supposed to be 60 or 61 percent, so a drop of 50% from new would only be a 10% increase. The Volt lease has a 48% residual, so if the car value drops 50% in the three years, you are in the positive on your lease!

 

[zappcatt]

Can we all stop all this bickering and savor the moment. An American company GM has designed, built and delivered the first truely practical and affordable EV. A momentous day indeed.

I wouldn't say it is bickering. Some of us really like the car, and would like to get one, but are not sheep, so look at what other options there are in the market.

The different in range between a BMW i3 and the Bolt means very little in my particular situation, since my commute is 40-60 miles depending on the path I take. I love the fact that the Bolt has a longer range, so I can be lazy....but...

I do not feel like paying more for the Bolt Lease which an MSRP of $37,500 than the i3 with an MSRP of $46,000, and that is what I am looking at right now.

I am glad that there are people who are willing to throw down full MSRP for the Bolt, and realize that for some people this is a huge improvement over any other option.

I am personally torn between the Volt, Bolt and BMW i3. The Volt is the drastically lower cost vehicle, the BMW meets my needs and is the "fancier car" and the Bolt has the largest range and passenger space...but as a solo commuter, that does not mean much on a daily basis.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Can we all stop all this bickering and savor the moment. An American company GM has designed, built and delivered the first truely practical and affordable EV. A momentous day indeed.

I wouldn't say it is bickering. Some of us really like the car, and would like to get one, but are not sheep, so look at what other options there are in the market.

The different in range between a BMW i3 and the Bolt means very little in my particular situation, since my commute is 40-60 miles depending on the path I take. I love the fact that the Bolt has a longer range, so I can be lazy....but...

I do not feel like paying more for the Bolt Lease which an MSRP of $37,500 than the i3 with an MSRP of $46,000, and that is what I am looking at right now.

I am glad that there are people who are willing to throw down full MSRP for the Bolt, and realize that for some people this is a huge improvement over any other option.

I am personally torn between the Volt, Bolt and BMW i3. The Volt is the drastically lower cost vehicle, the BMW meets my needs and is the "fancier car" and the Bolt has the largest range and passenger space...but as a solo commuter, that does not mean much on a daily basis.

Drive all three and see. The i3 has one main advantage over the other two which...for the performance oriented...is important in both straightline and cornering performance. It's RWD.

Also, as a vehicle, it is the most cutting edge and innovative as far as materials, frame design, interior design, etc. You probably also get a level of service you simply will not see at any GM/Chevy dealership. So these are factors that may sway your choice.

I'm with you in the range. It's great the Bolt has the range it has and right now every GM fanboy is thumping their chests about it. The issue is when other manufacturers finally bring out 200mile+ EVs, how will the Chevy compare as a package and vehicle to the others?

I'm considering upgrading my Spark EV to the Bolt but right now, the Bolt is as much "vaporware" (as some incorrectly say) to me as a Model III. It's out of my price range currently because people are lining up to pay full price for it (which I will never do) and it's not even available at any local dealership for probably another month or two anyway.

I've three friends who have i3s. I sold them on EVs as I've been driving my Spark EV for almost three years now and love it. It's a brilliant car. But see how it compares to the Bolt.

 

[zappcatt]

I have driven all 3 now.

The BMW was the first, and it was a wiz bang car, including the parking assist, which is slightly nicer than the version on the Bolt/Volt.

It is not perfect for our family due to the small area in the backseat. Anyone sitting behind me(6'3") has to stradle my seat. My wife said she would never ride back there. This does not affect it as a daily commuter, but definitely limits the ability to take it any time the family is heading out around town. BMW also has more refinements, but they also have very expensive costs on repairs. I have been reading their owners forums, and there are many stories of hit and run mirror damage or door dings, which have had significant repair costs, $700 for the mirror, and a reported $2,500 for the dings in the body(Carbon Fibre).

I really like the Volt, and while its backseat has more room than the Volt, the rear passengers have headroom issues. My father was in back on the test drive and he had to move his head 45 degreees to the side since he could not sit upright. My son is also growing fast, so I could see him running into this issue soon. The EV range would work for a round trip commute on one of my routes, but if I take my preferred route, I will be hitting gas halfway into my way home. Another "hidden cost" of the Volt is the ICE maintenance which would not be required on the Bolt or I3.

Today I drove the Bolt, and before leaving, I pushed my seat to a comfortable position and then got into the backseat behind the driver seat myself, and was pleasantly pleased to see that I had enough headroom, and while my legs were up against the driver seat, it was not uncomfortable. I would also have to have a unique group riding with me to require another 6'3" to sit behind me.

The pickup of the Bolt was the best of the 3, it felt stable at quick acceleration, and up to 70 or so on wet roads(no Freeway access since it was rush hour on 880-a parking lot). I really liked the more aggressive regen in Low and I could not tell any difference in Sport mode.


My favorite of the 3 is of course the Bolt, but with the aggressive deals/leases on the other options, it makes it a very hard decision. It is amazing and cool that I have 3 solid choices for an HOV accessible car today!

 

[JupiterMoon]

I have driven all 3 now.

The BMW was the first, and it was a wiz bang car, including the parking assist, which is slightly nicer than the version on the Bolt/Volt.

It is not perfect for our family due to the small area in the backseat. Anyone sitting behind me(6'3") has to stradle my seat. My wife said she would never ride back there. This does not affect it as a daily commuter, but definitely limits the ability to take it any time the family is heading out around town. BMW also has more refinements, but they also have very expensive costs on repairs. I have been reading their owners forums, and there are many stories of hit and run mirror damage or door dings, which have had significant repair costs, $700 for the mirror, and a reported $2,500 for the dings in the body(Carbon Fibre).

I really like the Volt, and while its backseat has more room than the Volt, the rear passengers have headroom issues. My father was in back on the test drive and he had to move his head 45 degreees to the side since he could not sit upright. My son is also growing fast, so I could see him running into this issue soon. The EV range would work for a round trip commute on one of my routes, but if I take my preferred route, I will be hitting gas halfway into my way home. Another "hidden cost" of the Volt is the ICE maintenance which would not be required on the Bolt or I3.

Today I drove the Bolt, and before leaving, I pushed my seat to a comfortable position and then got into the backseat behind the driver seat myself, and was pleasantly pleased to see that I had enough headroom, and while my legs were up against the driver seat, it was not uncomfortable. I would also have to have a unique group riding with me to require another 6'3" to sit behind me.

The pickup of the Bolt was the best of the 3, it felt stable at quick acceleration, and up to 70 or so on wet roads(no Freeway access since it was rush hour on 880-a parking lot). I really liked the more aggressive regen in Low and I could not tell any difference in Sport mode.


My favorite of the 3 is of course the Bolt, but with the aggressive deals/leases on the other options, it makes it a very hard decision. It is amazing and cool that I have 3 solid choices for an HOV accessible car today!

That's interesting! I'm looking forward to driving the Bolt. I think the i3 is pretty quick so if the Bolt is quicker that's really good. My Spark EV is incredibly quick especially while on the roll and at high speeds. It's probably the quickest EV out there this side of a Tesla.

If you need space, then the Volt is probably out. It's quite tight back there and the roofline really limits headroom.

One thing I do not like about the i3 is the single type of regen rate when you let go of the throttle. It's overly aggressive all the time and cannot be changed and on the freeway, it can get tiring if you don't use cruise control.

 

[SparkE]

Can we all stop all this bickering and savor the moment. An American company GM has designed, built and delivered the first truely practical and affordable EV. A momentous day indeed.

I wouldn't say it is bickering. Some of us really like the car, and would like to get one, but are not sheep, so look at what other options there are in the market.

The different in range between a BMW i3 and the Bolt means very little in my particular situation, since my commute is 40-60 miles depending on the path I take. I love the fact that the Bolt has a longer range, so I can be lazy....but...

I do not feel like paying more for the Bolt Lease which an MSRP of $37,500 than the i3 with an MSRP of $46,000, and that is what I am looking at right now.

I am glad that there are people who are willing to throw down full MSRP for the Bolt, and realize that for some people this is a huge improvement over any other option.

I am personally torn between the Volt, Bolt and BMW i3. The Volt is the drastically lower cost vehicle, the BMW meets my needs and is the "fancier car" and the Bolt has the largest range and passenger space...but as a solo commuter, that does not mean much on a daily basis.

Drive all three and see. {...}

And make sure to test-drive the Tesla Model 3, to compare it as well!!! Oh, wait ... you can't drive it because it's vaporware at this point!

Test-drive the Audi e-tron quattro, to compare it as well! Oh, wait ... you can't drive it because it's vaporware at this point!

Test-drive the 200-mile-range Gen 3 LEAF, to compare it as well!!! Oh, wait ... you can't drive it because it's vaporware at this point!