How Much I Paid for My Bolt

[michael]

And. While we are at it....

If you buy a car and have even a minor accident, the resale value is trashed because carfax and similar services report accident damage history. Even if the damage is minor and well repaired.

If you lease the car, it's not a problem

For that reason alone, I can't imagine buying an expensive car like a Tesla. Have a minor fender bender and the car loses $10k in value

 

[roundpeg]

I've made exactly one insurance claim in over 40 years of driving, so I am not going to make my mind up that way. And that one, I learned the hard way, was not worth filing, since it was minor. Any damage not well in excess of the deductible is not worth reporting to the insurance company, as you will inevitably pay it back many times over.

 

[michael]

I agree with you on that. Unless substantially in excess of deductible better to pay out if pocket. But there is no way to control what happens on the road...you can be rear ended by a texting teenager and repairs can be very expensive. If the other driver files a claim and your insurance company pays him, you will still get hit with the added premiums whether or not you file a claim as well. So it's not entirely your option.

So like I've said...go ahead and buy. You are obviously much in favor of that approach. Fine by me. In the case of an EV, I still think leasing is the best way to go. It's worked out perfectly for me

Let's drop this for now and re-address it in three years. Then we can find out which of us had the lower TCO

 

[roundpeg]

If you are in accident for which you are not found to be at fault, your insurance company doesn't pay, the at-fault driver's company pays. Your rates will not go up. So that's how that works. You are free to bet on the worst possible outcomes, if that makes you feel comfortable.

As for leasing vs. buying, you might read my posts in this thread if you are interested in knowing what I favor. We won't have to wait three years to know how it will pencil out in the case of the Bolt, only another month or so to see what kind of terms are being offered.

 

[oilerlord]

I believe Michael already said (a few times) to go ahead and buy...it's your money and you're free to do with it as you please. I bought too, but used. My $51,000 EV became a $23,000 car that nobody wanted after only 2-years and 6,000 miles. It sat on the lot for five months before the dealership finally accepted my lowball offer to get rid of it. I think that's the point he's trying to make. EV's depreciate like no other car, which is one reason people choose to lease them.

 

[roundpeg]

And I've said (a few times) that I'd look at the lease terms when they are made available and certainly consider leasing if that's the only way GM is offering an incentive. But I also said (a few times) that it makes no sense to argue that the leasing companies are losing money on virtually every EV they lease, and that favorable lease terms on EVs very likely represent a manufacturer subsidy that might well be available through purchase or financing. I've also said (a few times) that if the manufacturer is offering incentives they are unlikely to be offering only leasing incentives, so I'd want to know about all of them, not just the leasing incentive, before I made up my mind.

Sorry if this seems like such an insensible approach. Anyhow, I am sure anyone following this thread is tired of hearing me repeat these points, though not nearly as tired as I am of repeating them myself.

 

[DucRider]

I think much of the confusion/disagreement seems to be because you are arguing against historical data. You basically say that the data is illogical and therefore must not be true.

I agree with you that there is no way to truly analyze the best option until we have all the information. You do, however, seem to dismiss as fact that EVs depreciate much more rapidly and that is possible that the leasing companies made (and make) mistakes. It is also fact that when the leasing company is a division of or tied to a manufacturer, they indeed have offered favorable lease terms without offering the equivalent incentive on cash (or finance) purchases.

Think of "conquest" cash. It is often offered only to customers currently leasing a competitive vehicle - and no amount of negotiating makes it available to others. The same goes for "loyalty" cash, first responders, recent grad, etc.. These are promotions offered to limited sets of buyers and not available to everyone.

When the Bolt lease terms are revealed, only then can a logical comparison be made. But if you do that comparison using the assumption that the residual on a GM lease is an accurate figure, you are likely dealing with flawed data. For an unbiased residual valuation, get a quote or two from credit unions or other outside finance companies. They are much more likely to assign a reasonable residual than a manufacturer that wants to move cars off the lot.

 

[roundpeg]

I am not arguing against historical data. I do not dismiss as a fact that EVs depreciate more quickly than other cars. I have argued neither of these things. What I have said (now for about the fifth time, and yes, this is becoming annoying):

Leasing companies are at least as aware of historical data as any EV buyer, and almost certainly a whole lot more, since this is their actual business. If anyone argues otherwise, they are indeed being illogical, or perhaps naive. If these companies are offering artificially favorable terms, it is logical to at least consider that the manufacturers are making up the difference, rather than assuming that the leasing companies are dim, never learn from historical data, or maybe are doing the manufacturers big gratis favors. As if. When the lessor is the manufacturer itself, that is another story, but either way, an incentive could be hidden, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

As for whether equivalent incentives are offered to buyers, you need to at least ask, if you are going to know one way or another. From the stories I am hearing, most lessees don't ask, they just assume the lease is the only way they are going to see the incentive. That could even turn out to be the case, but personally, I'm not going to assume anything. I am going to ask. If anyone has a rebuttal to that approach, I'd be curious to hear it.

 

[BoltyMcBoltFace]

I agree with you that there is no way to truly analyze the best option until we have all the information. You do, however, seem to dismiss as fact that EVs depreciate much more rapidly and that is possible that the leasing companies made (and make) mistakes.

I can add one data point to this (admittedly already too long) discussion. I leased a Spark EV 10/1/2013. The residual in the lease paperwork was a bit over $16k. At the time, EVs were still pretty new and it's not likely that anyone had enough data to accurately predict what it would be worth, so I'd guess that they used a standard-to-lowish estimate for a $27k car. Three years later, residuals on new leases of Spark EVs were around $11k, pretty close to what dealers were asking for three year old Spark EVs at the time. As the market matured, they gained more information on what used ones were worth and set the residuals accordingly.

Did they lose money on that early lease? I can't say for certain, but I'd bet that they're not losing money on new ones. The manufacturers are putting incentives on them to make the cheap leases (and purchases for that matter) work because they want the sales and clean vehicle credits.

 

[SparkE]

Some leasing companies (like "GM Financial") are simply extensions of the car companies, and their purpose is to help sell cars, not make a profit.

 

[RootBreaker]

I am new and my first post here. I sifted a few pages and seems to have a lengthy argument about buying and leasing. Seems that to me each is their own and each scenario is different... Ill give you my example..

I drive 65 miles each way to work plus kids in sports (mma, travel soccer - i coach, deck hockey) With that I put 130-150 miles a day minimum on my car.

I purchased a 2013 GMC Sierra Crew Cab Z-92 (6" lift and 35s from dealer) and is a great truck. albeit @ 19mpg it was costing me $650/m on gas (@3.75/g ish) plus my $500/m truck payment. I did this for 3 years. I can afford it so why not but realization sat in that I could save money and spend it on something that that family can use. I couldnt get my money back from the truck so we traded in our 2005 Trailblazer ext in on a 2014 Prius 3. I hate the prius as it has its issues (seats are not comfortable, center console is like resting your arm on a brick and other little things)... HOWEVER.. driving it like a nascar I get 48mpg, driving like a car I get 53mpg and driving it like granny or like a prius owner I get 66mpg-71.3mpg. I owe 10k on this car with 67k miles on it right now.... I was going to keep it and drive it into the ground BUT...

the 2017 Bolt has features that I really would like. Like Lane Change detect alert (yes I get sleepy eyes at times) and some other features.

now I am weighing in buying one and trading the prius in. However price is where it will get me to decide. Nov 1st NJ added the $0.23 gas tax so now at the pump I paid $2.22 today. My prius will still shine and save me gas so i dont really care too much but if I can move into a BOLT for what im paying now, it is a no brainer as I like the SUV style and need that room at times.

so wife drove the truck for the last year and I decided to trade it in and get her what I was supposed to. a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. I was supposed to buy her one the day i bought the truck. had papers on it too but i was selfish and bought the truck. so now we have a Jeep with no real space in back, prius with no real space in back... but we still have my gas guzzling 1978 chevy fullsize sittion on 6" and 40" hawgs with detroit lockers, snorkel and tons of mods.

so im wandering all over this post but back to topic...


to buy or to lease... yeah you try leasing when you put 30-35k miles a year ONLY TO WORK and local driving. no vacation driving!!!!!

 

[oilerlord]

Root, welcome to the forum.

I'm no financial expert, but from what you've written, it's debatable what would save you more money - flipping cars less often, or driving a more fuel efficient car. It sounds like you're already set...you have big comfortable vehicles with "SUV style" and a Prius that costs less to operate. Perhaps the best option is doing nothing.

"the 2017 Bolt has features that I really would like. Like Lane Change detect alert (yes I get sleepy eyes at times)"

My car has similar radar based proximity warnings. Sometimes they are useful, but other times they simply give false alarms. You'd be better off getting more sleep rather than hoping the car wakes you up.

 

[SparkE]

Well, it sounds like your recent car history is :
- 2013 GMC Sierra Crew Cab Z-92 -> trade -> ?2016/7? Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
- 2005 Trailblazer -> trade -> 2014 Prius
- 1978 chevy fullsize

To 'save money', you should stop buying new cars. Either stop changing cars every 3 years, or buy used cars, or both.

To 'get the car you want' you should, well, buy the car you want (and keep it for a long time).

To 'make your wife happy' (well, we both know there's nothing you can do about that). But you might try finding out what she wants to drive, and getting her one. You might get a few weeks of peace from that before she starts complaining about something new. If you (she) can trim it down to just a few cars, you *might* be able to get a 24-hour loaner of each and decide which one she likes best. Some dealerships do that.

Funnies aside, were you actually asking for advice? I couldn't figure out if yes, but there also wasn't any advice given either, so I am at a loss.

 

[oilerlord]

To 'make your wife happy' (well, we both know there's nothing you can do about that).

When in doubt, a new handbag goes a long way. Costs less than a new car too. Win-Win.

 

[roundpeg]

Dunno how it works in your household but I've learned not to buy the spousal unit much of anything she hasn't picked out herself. And a purse? You've got to be kidding. I never knew a woman who wouldn't spend as much time considering that purchase as most any America male does in pondering their next car.

 

[oilerlord]

Dunno how it works in your household but I've learned not to buy the spousal unit much of anything she hasn't picked out herself. And a purse? You've got to be kidding. I never knew a woman who wouldn't spend as much time considering that purchase as most any America male does in pondering their next car.

Not that it matters, but these days it's called a handbag - not a "purse" - but that's where my expertise ends. Never said I pick them out. Wife picks out handbag, I pay for handbag, wife is happy. This is the natural order of things.

Not sure how it works in your household, but my wife can pick out two handbags and six pairs of shoes in an afternoon. I'll spend months researching cars to the point I could probably build one.

 

[roundpeg]

Not that it matters, but these days it's called a handbag - not a "purse" - but that's where my expertise ends. Never said I pick them out. Wife picks out handbag, I pay for handbag, wife is happy. This is the natural order of things.

Not sure how it works in your household, but my wife can pick out two handbags and six pairs of shoes in an afternoon. I'll spend months researching cars to the point I could probably build one.

What's it's called depends on where you live. But it sounds like you have a plan.

 

[ssspinball]

If you are in accident for which you are not found to be at fault, your insurance company doesn't pay, the at-fault driver's company pays. Your rates will not go up. So that's how that works. You are free to bet on the worst possible outcomes, if that makes you feel comfortable..

You cannot guarantee the other driver will have any insurance at all.

 

[ssspinball]

I think much of the confusion/disagreement seems to be because you are arguing against historical data. You basically say that the data is illogical and therefore must not be true.

Exactly this. Arguing against those that have already gone through this with their own EV purchases, some multiple times across different manufacturers is indeed arguing against historical data.

It is a glorious time to lease an EV and I will surely take advantage of this knowledge and simple math that is well in my favor when my current lease is up next year and probably again when our other car is up in 2018.

 

[roundpeg]

You cannot guarantee the other driver will have any insurance at all.

I also cannot guarantee not being hit by a meteor, but I am still not going to take out any insurance against the possibility.

I live in state where registering a car without insurance or demonstrated financial responsibility is illegal. Not impossible, but rare, and covered by uninsured motorist riders in any event. You also can't ignore at-fault issues. If you are not at-fault in an accident you will not see your rates rise even if your insurance company pays you on an uninsured motorist policy. I know, because happened to me some years ago.

It's actually illegal in some states to raise your insurance rates in response to claims in which you were found to not be at fault. Even if you live in a state where it is legal, if your insurance company pulls that stunt, I'd advise shopping around for a new insurance company because they don't all do that.