How Much I Paid for My Bolt

[thorin78]

Thanks. So basically, don't focus on the monthly payment (that's what the trade-in and down payment affect ultimately), although I was more targeting for that. They gave me $4339 off the MSRP, so $2500 CCR and $1839 discount.

My only issue is that they're screwing around w/ the calculation by adding back the 1st month payment, taxes and fees back to the cost of capital and increasing the monthly payment. I would much prefer paying all fees upfront and not being taxed on the deduction. I don't know if that's doable.

Not sure what "deduction" you think you're being taxed on.

Only thing that's being taxed in my deal is the monthly lease payment, which I think is a rip off but it's just an alternate way for the state to get "paid"; they'd otherwise get the sales tax up front on the full sales price of the car when purchased.

The monthly payment matters in terms of cash flow but it's the total cost of the lease over it's life which is usually the best way to compare lease deals of the same duration.

A fairer comparison of leases between people w/different sales tax (which differ even w/in a state) would be to deduct the cost of the sales taxes paid on lease payments over the life of the lease.

In that case, my total lease cost would "only" be $5000 (trade-in) minus $3k (rebates still due) plus ($282x35)=$11,870; the 1st payment was included in the $7.5k upfront costs of my deal that were paid for with the trade-in and GM's $2.5k factory rebate.

Without the rebates and sales tax, my deal would be about the same in dollars as yours, but you got car w/a sticker price $3k more than mine. So, I think you did very well, even though your monthly payments are $53 more per month than mine.

If you can take advantage of any other rebates (as I can), your deal would look even better. Again, congrats!

Thanks. I'm happy to get some validation on a good deal.
This is what I'm confused by, excluding all down payments and trade ins

Normally
MSRP: 43510
discount: 2500 + 1700 = 4200
Net Cap Cost = 39310
Residual = 26106
Base cost = 366
interest = 47
taxes = 28
monthly = 442

Drive off Fees = 1829 (1387 w/o 1st month payment)
Acquisition = 595
Docs - 80
DMV HOV = 29
Taxes = 325.50
registration = 358
1st month payment = 442

What dealer is doing
MSRP = 43510
discount = 2500 + 1700 + X
adding drive off fees = 1387.5 plus 1st month payment (pick your what you want to pay)
Net capital cost = 40698 - X +1st month payment
Residual = 26106
base monthly = 405
interest = 48
tax = 31
monthly cost = 484

So you can't do a monthly rate of $484, because adding that 1st month rate increases the net cap cost and therefore changes the monthly payment again. To $499/month.
If you want to keep the monthly payment at 484, something else has to move. In this case, the X would have to move to $540 ((499 - 484) * 36 months)
Since the dealer isn't going to give you 540 because they you didn't "agree" on that, they'll make you put that money as down payment.
But what's more "likely" is that they'll say that ok, it's $499/month, and they'll move the discount "X" up to $39 to account for the fact that they are making more money over 3 years. But remember, their selling point is that it's $0 down literally. And you walk out w/ a car payment of $499/month

Increasing X also increases the drive off fees that's increasing the net cap cost. It's a huge circular reference in excel.

So if you wanted to get back to $442/month, here are the numbers
your "discount" has to increase by $1980. That's your down payment.
If my calculation is right, you pay an extra $153 over 3 years.
I know it's not much, but it's money I believe they're pocketing when it's "unnecessary"

Comparing the down payments from "normally" to what dealer is doing, $1829 vs $1980, you're putting more down to get back to the original monthly payment that's pure.

When I said this to the dealer, they said this is what they always do. And I'm thinking if what I consider "normal" is really not normal.

 

[sgt1372]

This is what I'm confused by, excluding all down payments and trade ins . . .

Well, I'm confused too. The last set of numbers aren't the same as the ones you initially posted and certainly are NOT good deals in any sense.

If you are paying $360/mo and the total cost of your lease over 3 years is $14.8k on a Premier valued at $43k, I'd consider that a good deal. But, if you are paying $442 or 484 per month, it's not. Which is it?

 

[thorin78]

This is what I'm confused by, excluding all down payments and trade ins . . .

Well, I'm confused too. The last set of numbers aren't the same as the ones you initially posted and certainly are NOT good deals in any sense.

If you are paying $360/mo and the total cost of your lease over 3 years is $14.8k on a Premier valued at $43k, I'd consider that a good deal. But, if you are paying $442 or 484 per month, it's not. Which is it?

Sorry that you're confused. My deal is still $360/month and 3 years of $14.8k.
My example is of what the dealer is doing if there were no other trade-ins.
Essentially, the dealer is increasing the net capital cost by including the drive-off fees and 1st month payment.

 

[siennared]

Looks like Chevrolet of Fremont is offering $2000 off MSRP based on what is on their site. Looks like dealerships with inventory are getting ready for the long weekend.

 

[thorin78]

Looks like Chevrolet of Fremont is offering $2000 off MSRP based on what is on their site. Looks like dealerships with inventory are getting ready for the long weekend.

2000 off MSRP, Not available w/ some finance or lease offers. $1700 Dealer Discount - applies to all in stock 2017 bolt EVs.
OR
259/month lease for 36 months. $3995 due at signing, Tax Title + fees extra, 10k miles, 5 available. $37,495 MSRP.

I think the 1700 is additive to the $2000? So maybe the $2000 is actually the ($2500 from GM Financial?)

Then the Lease option is on a base model LT, no addons?

 

[JupiterMoon]

I still think this car is too expensive. $4k down on a lease is outrageous and risky.

 

[jmatero]

Is the $7500 gone for the Bolt? Capitol Chevy just quoted me the following for a loaded Premier:

View attachment Screen Shot 2017-02-16 at 4.41.30 PM.png

 

[thorin78]

Look below

 

[thorin78]

Is the $7500 gone for the Bolt? Capitol Chevy just quoted me the following for a loaded Premier:

Whoa, don't do this deal.
The GM Financial Money factor is 0.00072, they're charging you 0.001227, based on a 8.75% tax rate. Let me know what your tax rate is and I can get it closer. If you were at 0.00072, you should be closer to $464/mo w/ $1500.00 amount due.

So because they "raised" the money factor, the dealer keeps ~34/month which is $1224 profit over 3 years.

If you're leasing, you don't get $7500 as GM Financial is keeping it and splitting it w/ the dealer. You get $2500 of the $7500. If there were less of a "hotter" car, you'd see more "discounts"

 

[jmatero]

My tax rate in San Jose is 8.75. Excellent credit and we're also leasing a Volt at the same time. Ugh

 

[thorin78]

My tax rate in San Jose is 8.75. Excellent credit and we're also leasing a Volt at the same time. Ugh

Did you go through the costco auto program by any chance? That's what I did and the dealer quoted that higher rate.

 

[jmatero]

My tax rate in San Jose is 8.75. Excellent credit and we're also leasing a Volt at the same time. Ugh

Did you go through the costco auto program by any chance? That's what I did and the dealer quoted that higher rate.

Nope, that's right through Capitol's Internet Director.

 

[thorin78]

My tax rate in San Jose is 8.75. Excellent credit and we're also leasing a Volt at the same time. Ugh

Did you go through the costco auto program by any chance? That's what I did and the dealer quoted that higher rate.

Nope, that's right through Capitol's Internet Director.

If you feel comfortable w/ the discount, go to another dealer and see if what they'll offer. If they can beat it, fantastic. I got $1700 off on my Premium and the 0.00072 money factor.

 

[siennared]

My experience with Dublin Chevrolet has been very good so far and they may be able to get you much better deals.

 

[sgt1372]

Is the $7500 gone for the Bolt?

On my $40k LT from Capitol Chevy, I got a $1k discount on the MSRP plus a $6.2k Cap Cost Deduction which pretty much made up for the loss of the $7.5k Fed Tax Credit which I couldn't use anyway.

Don't see any Cost Cap Deduction in your worksheet. Getting that will reduce the amount used to determine your monthly lease payment, which in my case reduced the monthly payment by $172 (before sales taxes).

 

[thorin78]

Is the $7500 gone for the Bolt?

On my $40k LT from Capitol Chevy, I got a $1k discount on the MSRP plus a $6.2k Cap Cost Deduction which pretty much made up for the loss of the $7.5k Fed Tax Credit which I couldn't use anyway.

Don't see any Cost Cap Deduction in your worksheet. Getting that will reduce the amount used to determine your monthly lease payment, which in my case reduced the monthly payment by $172 (before sales taxes).

The Cap Cost deduction was from $2500 of GM Finance CCR and $1091 discount and they included your trade-in of $5000(?) and then they added back in the fees $595 and docs $80 and taxes and 1st month payment back in. Those things offset your $5000 basically. That's why it was over $6000. The cap cost deduction isn't like a discount. It's because you paid into it to bring the Capital down.

Based on his sheet, his cap cost deduction will be something like $3600

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I'm starting to reconsider buying a new Bolt, and just waiting for the first round of lease returns in 3 years. With that in mind, I scanned this thread for residuals given on leases. The thought is that this is an upper limit of what I might expect to pay.

Here's what I'm seeing quoted (to name a few):
jmatero: $25,235.40
thorin78: $26,106
sgt1372: $24,031
JupiterMoon: $24,598.35
monkeytreats: $26,106

For a car that is advertised as "starting under $30k (with incentives)", these are large numbers for a 3-year-old car. I have to believe one of two things is happening here:
1) Residual values are being artificially inflated to make the leases more attractive
2) GM is aware that in 3 years, the tax credits will be gone, and a new Bolt will start at $37,500, not $30,000. So even with these high residuals, used cars will still sell because the new ones will be so much more expensive.

The whole thing is making me wonder if I should actually jump in now while the incentives are still around, or hope that the Bolt will follow the trend of other EVs, and end up with far more depreciation than is being written into the leases.

 

[Schnort]

They're artificially inflated numbers. That's where the $7500 tax rebate is going (to prop up that).

When the rebate goes away, the cars will have to drop their price to be net the same because they won't sell any otherwise.

 

[sgt1372]

Is the $7500 gone for the Bolt?

On my $40k LT from Capitol Chevy, I got a $1k discount on the MSRP plus a $6.2k Cap Cost Deduction which pretty much made up for the loss of the $7.5k Fed Tax Credit which I couldn't use anyway.

Don't see any Cost Cap Deduction in your worksheet. Getting that will reduce the amount used to determine your monthly lease payment, which in my case reduced the monthly payment by $172 (before sales taxes).

The Cap Cost deduction was from $2500 of GM Finance CCR and $1091 discount and they included your trade-in of $5000(?) and then they added back in the fees $595 and docs $80 and taxes and 1st month payment back in. Those things offset your $5000 basically. That's why it was over $6000. The cap cost deduction isn't like a discount. It's because you paid into it to bring the Capital down.

Based on his sheet, his cap cost deduction will be something like $3600

The $2500 on my deal was the GM rebate which together w/the $5k trade in off set the upfront costs including the $6.1k cap cost deduction and sales tax on it.

So, you're right my trade in basically went to pay for $5k of the cap cost reduction - - no free lunch - - but the cap cost reduction does go to reduce the net depreciable value on which the monthly lease cost is calculated.

It's complicated, which is why it's simpler to compare deals based on the total cost of leases over their life taking into account the difference in the MSRP of the cars.

 

[sgt1372]

I'm starting to reconsider buying a new Bolt, and just waiting for the first round of lease returns in 3 years. With that in mind, I scanned this thread for residuals given on leases. The thought is that this is an upper limit of what I might expect to pay.

Here's what I'm seeing quoted (to name a few):
jmatero: $25,235.40
thorin78: $26,106
sgt1372: $24,031
JupiterMoon: $24,598.35
monkeytreats: $26,106

For a car that is advertised as "starting under $30k (with incentives)", these are large numbers for a 3-year-old car. I have to believe one of two things is happening here:
1) Residual values are being artificially inflated to make the leases more attractive
2) GM is aware that in 3 years, the tax credits will be gone, and a new Bolt will start at $37,500, not $30,000. So even with these high residuals, used cars will still sell because the new ones will be so much more expensive.

The whole thing is making me wonder if I should actually jump in now while the incentives are still around, or hope that the Bolt will follow the trend of other EVs, and end up with far more depreciation than is being written into the leases.

No telling what a 3rd party would have to pay for these lease returns. It all depends on the market at the time.

Lessees probably will have the option to buy these cars at the time but I certainly wouldn't do so. In general, you should expect the value of a car to depreciate about 50% below MSRP in 3 years, so I don't think my car should be worth more than $20k (not $24k) then.

That said, GM is offering very good lease terms now and if you qualify for the best rates, I would suggest you lease now rather than wait, especially because the Fed Tax Credit offsets and, if you're in CA, the state and PGE rebates which make the deals better won't be available on used Bolts later.

It certainly won't hurt to walk into a dealership and talk terms. If you don't like the deal, just walk.