EVgo DC FC pricing changes coming Feb 12, 2019

[cwerdna]

Hope it's ok to create a new thread about this.

Some folks got notification about this. Not me.
New prices at https://www.evgo.com/pricing2019/.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I'm confused by this new pricing scheme. EVGo raised their rates just as EA is about to complete their first round of a massive QC network. Sure, EA is more expensive, but they are also 3X the charging rate. EVGo's pricing had been somewhat in line with EA's, but now they are less competitive.

In short, I thought competition was supposed to lead to better pricing, not worse!

 

[SparkEVPilot]

Hope it's ok to create a new thread about this.

Some folks got notification about this. Not me.
New prices at https://www.evgo.com/pricing2019/.

I did get the notice. My monthly plan cost dropped from $9.99 to $7.99 and my charging cost per minute went up from $0.15 to $0.26. Plus, there is now a limit on charging time:

60-Minute Session Length 8pm-6am
45-Minute Session Length 6am-8pm

This is for "California - All Other Regions". Charging cost will now be region specific. Here is a link to EVgo's new schedule:

https://www.evgo.com/pricing2019/?utm_source=EVgo+Masterlist&utm_campaign=6360dd9210-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_01_21_09_51&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3f34fcf053-6360dd9210-295008021

 

[SparkE]

Oh my! EVgo's prices going UP to pretty closely match the competition, basically. Unless one travels a lot (guaranteed to use $8 of FCging every month), it looks like the utility of the "subscription" rate just tanked - if you're sure you will use DCFC for $8/mo (28 mins), every month, then why not save FOUR WHOLE CENTS by subscribing; otherwise, let it go.

I am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you!

(Of course, if you need the power, it is a heck of a lot better to have to pay a lot than it is to be stranded.)

For comparison ...

Cost estimates are assuming the "max" average Bolt rate from (about) 5-10% to around 55% of SoC: guesstimating 53 kWh , for 30 mins. Charging for 45 minutes or longer would cost more per kWh, since the charging rate would drop pretty soon after 30 mins.

ChargePoint's cost for the new DCFCs along I-5 (125A, multi-unit stations) in Calif is : $0.25/kWh + $0.10/min
(30 mins, 26.5 kWh, would be $9.62 = $0.36/kWh or $0.32/min )

Recargo's pricing at Salinas (?200A? @ Prunedale shopping center) is : $0.24/min
(30 mins, 26.5 kWh, would be $7.20 = $0.27/kWh or $0.24/min )

EA pricing (in CA) is (?300A?) : $1 connection + $0.35/min
(30 mins, 26.5 kWh, would be $11.50 = $0.43/kWh or $0.38/min TOTAL {total price/30} )

EVgo's pricing (for most of CA) is : $0.30/min OR $0.26/min (subscription price) so for 30 mins, 26.5 kWh, it would be:
100A DCFC (max ~37 kW rate) : 18.5 kWh , $9 ($0.49 kWh) / $7.8 ($0.42/kWh)
125A DCFC (max ~46 kW rate) : 23 kWh , $9 ($0.39 kWh) / $7.8 ($0.34/kWh)

 

[BoltEV]

(Of course, if you need the power, it is a heck of a lot better to have to pay a lot than it is to be stranded.)

This is the tail that is waving the dog here!

Until the States and/or the federal government decides to regulate these suppliers like the ologipolistic utilities they are, we are at their pricing mercy.

 

[JoeS]

Dunno what all the fuss is about, because my own afternoon TOU (PG&E E-6) summer cost would be around 46¢/kWh (if I were to pay for it, but don't because of my solar PV). Didn't Tesla's pricing also go up recently?

Because of the tremendous variation in charging rates I believe at this point in time comparisons should be in terms of cost for x number of kWh. Price per minute is an artificial metric primarily the result of it being illegal in some states for a non-utility to charge by the kWh.

I am very aggravated by EA's connection fee, and I don't understand why we should pay a buck just for the privilege of plugging the car in.

EVgo's $8/month fee includes roughly 1/2-hour of charging. In my own case, I find myself usually only adding a small amount (10-15min?) in order to get home, perhaps a couple of times a month.

I actually don't mind paying a bit extra to any of these charging station outfits as long as they continue expanding the charging infrastructure and do a good job maintaining their equipment. IMO, what's still needed is a significant expansion along the nation's highways, support for multi-unit housing dwellers, and workplace charging.

That said, I do dread cost/mile parity with ICE, as that will seriously hamper our BEV adoption rate.

 

[BarfOMatic]

I am very aggravated by EA's connection fee, and I don't understand why we should pay a buck just for the privilege of plugging the car in.

OK, I'll explain it to you: Credit card fee. Credit Card companies charge businesses for "the privilege" of accepting client payment using their network. The exact number varies widely, but is usually {fee} + {percentage of sale}. EA is passing the fee (and the concept) on to the consumer. It doesn't matter if you charge for 10 minutes or 100 minutes, the CC company charges a fee, and EA thus charges a fee to you (PLUS something that sort of mimics your actual usage).

IMO, what's still needed is a significant expansion along the nation's highways, support for multi-unit housing dwellers, and workplace charging.

I mostly agree with you here. "support for multi-unit housing dwellers" should be paid by the dwellers (or owners) themselves, and could be handled (albeit someone slowly) by requiring all new construction to have 240V outlets in every individual garage, and/or reserved spots with 240V sockets available in private parking (common area) garages. That, mixed with two- or four- stall 30-60 kW fast charging in/around urban mall areas/grocery stores/shopping districts (places where people go for 30-60 minutes) would cover appt dwellers.

For me, the big thing that has always been missing is the charging infrastructure along major travel routes, and that is where efforts need to be made: multi-plug (multi-stall) fast charging stations every 50-ish miles (at a minimum) so that BEVs can be used for intermediate-distance (200-400 mile) and long-distance travel.

 

[BoltEV]

I am very aggravated by EA's connection fee, and I don't understand why we should pay a buck just for the privilege of plugging the car in.

OK, I'll explain it to you: Credit card fee. Credit Card companies charge businesses for "the privilege" of accepting client payment using their network. The exact number varies widely, but is usually {fee} + {percentage of sale}. EA is passing the fee (and the concept) on to the consumer. It doesn't matter if you charge for 10 minutes or 100 minutes, the CC company charges a fee, and EA thus charges a fee to you (PLUS something that sort of mimics your actual usage).

OK, I'll explain it to you: When consumers have the option to pay in cash, but choose, for whatever reason, to use a credit card, then the use of a credit card rationally would give the merchant a reason to have a defined extra fee, that is sometimes passed on to the consumer by the merchant (although for many years this type of pass-thru fee was illegal).

EA has adopted no mechanism to accept cash. Hence the credit card fee is only one of the many overhead costs that must be taken into consideration when adopting the incremental price to obtain electricity.

It is then no different from any other overhead cost. Should EA charge a "hook-up" fee based upon its site rental costs? Of course not, dude!

 

[BarfOMatic]

Quote edited by mod

 

[JoeS]

BarfOMatic, no need for such acrimony.

If I need a five-minute DCFC to get home, then the $1 connection fee can represent an unreasonable portion of my bill. Even though I understand the rationale, I believe it should be buried by the EVSE operator with all the other costs of running a charging station, ending with a simple ¢/kWh number.

Thankfully, EVgo doesn't play the fee game that EA is wont to do, and I appreciate that.

With the continued expansion in the number of of charging stations, I've found myself using PlugShare's filter to select the station providers of my liking. This will become more of a factor as time goes on and, at least around here in the SF Bay Area, gone are the days of being desperate for ANY charging station. Competition is great!

 

[SparkE]

BarfOMatic, no need for such acrimony.

Yes, I have edited that post. Sigh.

If I need a five-minute DCFC to get home, then the $1 connection fee can represent an unreasonable portion of my bill. Even though I understand the rationale, I believe it should be buried by the EVSE operator with all the other costs of running a charging station, ending with a simple ¢/kWh number.

Thankfully, EVgo doesn't play the fee game that EA is wont to do, and I appreciate that.

EVgo doesn't play the fee game that EA is wont to do

Well, they certainly used to do so , when they were pretty much the only game in town, and it was a doozy : $5 connection fee !!

 

[JoeS]

Thankfully, EVgo doesn't play the fee game that EA is wont to do, and I appreciate that.

Well, they certainly used to do so , when they were pretty much the only game in town, and it was a doozy : $5 connection fee !!

SparkE, you're absolutely right, but that was while EVgo was under nrg Energy ownership - a legacy of the convoluted Enron scandal settlement ... I really really did not like them at that time and used them only under duress. EVgo has since divested <https://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/26/nrg-sells-evgo-fast-charge-network/>, seems to be well-managed, and have now become quite attractive after the dramatic pricing changes a couple of years ago. That Tahoe trip I took last Fall left me with a very positive impression as every one of the twenty-or-so stations I used worked flawlessly, as have all the local stations (my latest being a pre-planned midnight charge at San Mateo CalTrain coming back from SFO instead of my usual stop at Hillsdale ChargePoint).

 

[GetOffYourGas]

With the continued expansion in the number of of charging stations, I've found myself using PlugShare's filter to select the station providers of my liking. This will become more of a factor as time goes on and, at least around here in the SF Bay Area, gone are the days of being desperate for ANY charging station. Competition is great!

Must be nice. Most of us aren't that lucky. Maybe we'll catch up with where you are today in another decade. Once our governor stops making announcements and starts actually doing something.

 

[SparkE]

That Tahoe trip I took last Fall left me with a very positive impression as every one of the twenty-or-so stations I used worked flawlessly, as have all the local stations (my latest being a pre-planned midnight charge at San Mateo CalTrain coming back from SFO instead of my usual stop at Hillsdale ChargePoint).

By "Hillsdale ChargePoint" (CP), do you mean the one at "Park Place shopping" on Hillsdale ave? That one is nice (4 125A DCFC units, underground so protected from the elements, and only $0.25/kWh). I imaging that will (once again) become your go-to charge place, since EVgo just raised their prices to something much closer to Electrify America (EA).

And when driving towards the south, I highly recommend the 8-stall CP installation at NASA near the CA-85/US-101 junction. Further south, I highly recommend the 6 stall Recargo installation near Salinas at Prunedale shopping center. There's also a 4 stall EVgo "80 kW" !) EVgo installtion that opened in San Jose (at Whole Foods near the Shark's icerink on The Alameda).

 

[JoeS]

SparkE, thank you for those charging station recommendations. Yes, by "Hillsdale" I did mean the Hillsdale Avenue offramp off 101. At that Park Place garage I usually take just enough time to go to the bathroom and grab an ice cream cone and then be off ~ 10 minutes and enough to get home. I'll go back through my charging history to see if it still makes sense for me to stay signed up with EVgo's monthly plan.

 

[BoltEV]

EVgo doesn't play the fee game that EA is wont to do

Well, they certainly used to do so , when they were pretty much the only game in town, and it was a doozy : $5 connection fee !!

When was the EVGo connection fee $5?

I started with them back in 2013 and I do not ever remember such a fee.

I did, however, quickly join their premiere package after reading two well-written posts on this forum that: (i) showed mathematically that the monthly fee established a lower charging cost upon only 1 hour of charging a month; and (ii) showed how to use the EVGo app to restart charging after 30 minutes by "remote control" from the restaurant that I was dining at during the charging break.

After joining there was certainly no connection fee thereafter.

 

[BoltEV]

With the continued expansion in the number of of charging stations, I've found myself using PlugShare's filter to select the station providers of my liking. This will become more of a factor as time goes on and, at least around here in the SF Bay Area, gone are the days of being desperate for ANY charging station. Competition is great!

Must be nice. Most of us aren't that lucky. Maybe we'll catch up with where you are today in another decade. Once our governor stops making announcements and starts actually doing something.

As compared to which Governor? California has been leading the way for years and will continue to do so!

Oh, maybe you are in Kansas, where the Koch Brothers are convincing the legislature to stop subsidizing solar panels?

 

[BoltEV]

SparkE, you're absolutely right, but that was while EVgo was under nrg Energy ownership - a legacy of the convoluted Enron scandal settlement ... I really really did not like them at that time and used them only under duress. EVgo has since divested <https://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/26/nrg-sells-evgo-fast-charge-network/>, seems to be well-managed, and have now become quite attractive after the dramatic pricing changes a couple of years ago.

While I agree that EVGo's policies have improved, that may well have more to do with evolution and competition, than its divestiture from NRG Energy.

All of you up in Northern California were less captive to EVGo in those days than we were down here in SoCal.

And, whereas you see the NRG Energy/State of California settlement as a glass half empty; I saw it as a glass half full when my battery was run down and the preponderance of DCFC's at the time in SoCal were EVGo!

 

[SparkE]

EVgo doesn't play the fee game that EA is wont to do

Well, they certainly used to do so , when they were pretty much the only game in town, and it was a doozy : $5 connection fee !!

When was the EVGo connection fee $5?

I started with them back in 2013 and I do not ever remember such a fee.

It was only applicable for the pay-as-you-go plan (not if one was subscribed). It was either $10 for 30 mins, or $5 connection fee ($4.95) and XXX per kWh (I don't remember exactly how much per kWh). .

That was pricing up until about a year ago - around May 2018, when the prices of all the plans changed.

 

[cwerdna]

EVgo doesn't play the fee game that EA is wont to do

Well, they certainly used to do so , when they were pretty much the only game in town, and it was a doozy : $5 connection fee !!

When was the EVGo connection fee $5?

I started with them back in 2013 and I do not ever remember such a fee.

Connection fee for DC FCing on EVgo was going on for ages. Was in effect when I was shopping for a used Leaf in July 2015 (and likely for months or years before that) and still in effect until March 1, 2018 (https://www.evgo.com/about/news/evgo-announces-price-drops-ev-fast-charging-across-u-s/). But, if you were on the old plan (no monthly fee plan) with a connection fee, EVgo would happily continue charging that. I've seen reports of that on the net including from someone I know who didn't realize they axed the fee and that you had to opt in to the cheaper plan yourself.

For CA to DC FC on the no-monthly fee plan, it was $4.95 session fee + 20 cents/minute until March 1, 2018.

Heck, I recall EVgo even charging a membership/activation fee to join. I joined during a time when that was waived (in Sept 2016).