EVgo DC chargers were horrible up until the beginning of 2018. They're still not perfect, but improvement is being made.

[Anonymous]

BOY: are YOU bi-polar! :lol:

Nope, just a member of 1%. The other 99% aren't crazy like we are. We love waiting hours for a fill up. Normal people don't.

How far can you drive on a charge? How often do you drive to near zero capacity?

 

[oilerlord]

How far can you drive on a charge? How often do you drive to near zero capacity?

Depends on the season. When it's -15F, as little as 40 miles. At 70F, I once squeezed out 115 miles with careful hypermiling just to see how far I could go (showed 6% remaining) but I've never driven to zero capacity, and seldom drive it below (indicated) 25% SOC. I own the car, and hope to put at least 80,000 miles on it so I'm doing my best to be kind to the battery.

 

[Anonymous]

This is a BEV that will only give you 40 miles capacity in the winter; with no other backup fuel source! OUCH!

That's why I leased the Volt for 3 years...

So that battery is about 30KWh? DC Fast Charge about 40 minutes when near zero capacity?

L2 at home, solar or grid, about 4 hours? hence: overnight!

Sounds eminently doable to me!

 

[oilerlord]

36 kWh total / 28 kWh usable capacity. Fortunately, -15F / 40 miles of range is an extreme, not typical. Even with that, I can usually make that work before I have to drive one of our other cars. My B250e doesn't have DCFC but does have an onboard 10kW charger. I use a Clipper Creek HCS-40p EVSE which usually puts ~7.6 kW into the battery. As for my solar, I posted it here:

http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4944

I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

 

[SparkE]

At the end of 30 mins, I stopped the charge. The Bolt said it was 80% charged and posted an revised estimated mid-range of 184 miles. So, it cost me $11.95 for just 50 miles of additional range.

Not sure how that works out in EPA miles per gallon but just based on the car it replaced -- a gas guzzling FJ Cruiser that never got more than 12 miles to the gallon -- that would work out to about 4 gallons of gas at $2.65/gallon or $10.60 for the FJ, which means that it would have been cheaper to fill up the FJ than the Bolt for the same mileage. No savings there.

You and the OP clearly illustrate one of the biggest reasons why less than 1% of the population chooses to buy an EV. Public "quick" charging is expensive, and it sucks.

If we look at sgt's real-world experience objectively, from purely a getting from point A to point B perspective - do we seriously believe that it makes sense to pay more, and wait 30 minutes for the equivalent of 4 gallons of gas?

We sit around the eco-friendly LED campfire, holding hands while singing kumbaya - but when the music stops, and their aren't enough chargers to go around, we start calling each other "pricks". I would not be surprised if there is an owner of an FJ Cruiser reading this thread, and laughing at us.

I disagree - I think it demonstrates his not being familiar with the available options and pricing structure. We don't live that far apart (maybe 50 miles distance) and I have NEVER paid that much for a quick-charge - not even remotely close to that, not even as much as HALF that.

I also adhere to the title of the thread (which I didn't start) : "Do not use EVgo fast chargers. No, seriously. Just don't."

 

[Nagorak]

I think we just need to give it more time. Five years ago if you went looking for a public charger you'd probably end up plugged into a 110v outlet, or you'd find an old paddle charger left over from the late 90s, early 00s era (before they crushed all of the EVs).

I suspect the expense of putting in one of these chargers is pretty high and right now the demand is pretty low. Even with public finding it's probably an investment that won't end up paying off for a long time. For that reason I'm a bit more tolerant of being ripped off a bit, if I am need of the service.

Assuming we are at the beginning of an EV future, presumably we'll eventually have plenty of charging stations and they won't charge more than a small fee above what you'd pay at home.

 

[oilerlord]

[

I disagree - I think it demonstrates his not being familiar with the available options and pricing structure. We don't live that far apart (maybe 50 miles distance) and I have NEVER paid that much for a quick-charge - not even remotely close to that, not even as much as HALF that.

That's one way of looking at it.

One other possible reality could be that there are simply not enough quick chargers to go around. If there were, the guy using his free charge card wouldn't be a prick anymore, and EVGO might lower their prices and remove the session limit.

 

[oilerlord]

I suspect the expense of putting in one of these chargers is pretty high and right now the demand is pretty low. Even with public funding it's probably an investment that won't end up paying off for a long time. For that reason I'm a bit more tolerant of being ripped off a bit, if I am need of the service.

Assuming we are at the beginning of an EV future, presumably we'll eventually have plenty of charging stations and they won't charge more than a small fee above what you'd pay at home.

We all know the elephant in the room is not enough public charging spots.

There is a difference between paying more for excellent service, and getting ripped off. There should be zero tolerance for the latter. If you know that EVGO is ripping you off and/or providing poor service, the answer is simple - don't use their chargers.

I think level 2 should be free. Always free. Just like wifi, there's a big enough business reason why stores, restaurants, and medical services locations should install them in to attract business. A 60 amp EVSE doesn't cost much to install, and the cost of electricity is simply the cost of attracting business into your store by turning it into a destination. We love to spend money on lunch & coffee when a free plug is being offered. We can criticize free but the truth is - we all love free, even when when we're paying for free. Buy one and get the other for free. It's human nature...we can't resist it.

Level 3 is a different case. Tesla used to charge $2500 for "free" supercharging. I think that's a model that worked. How many of us would pay $2500 for the ability to get an (actually) quick 20 minute / 80% charge, and (usually) not have to wait for it? I would. In a heartbeat. The trouble is that GM is largely sitting back and hoping that charging infrastructure and DCFC service providers sort it out on their own. That's why we have EVGO, and the associated issues.

I'd like to see GM (and others) become part of a consortium that agrees to offer a DCFC charging option - not just the plug, but a $2500 (or higher) fee to simply drive up to a DCFC, and plug in. No card, or membership required, because the option is registered to the car - not the owner. The car would come with the option-updated software / registration code that gives the correct handshake signal to start the juice flowing on a network of thousands of DCFC stations.

By charging an up-front fee for that option, I could see GM getting into a partnership with Mobil or Chevron with a vision to install a Level 3 charging station at every location. Crazy idea? Perhaps not.

Big Oil has deep pockets, and already has a big budget set aside for being the good corporate & environmental citizen. A billion dollar investment in charging infrastructure is nothing for Exxon, but would be a significant first step in getting it done. Gasoline stations are everywhere, and in remote highway communities. Small towns may not have a Starbucks, but they always have a gas station. I think it makes sense to put DCFC where the public is already accustomed to fueling up their cars. Some owners would pay up front with the price of their car, others would pay at the "pump". Everybody wins.

 

[sgt1372]

If we look at sgt's real-world experience objectively, from purely a getting from point A to point B perspective - do we seriously believe that it makes sense to pay more, and wait 30 minutes for the equivalent of 4 gallons of gas?

We sit around the eco-friendly LED campfire, holding hands while singing kumbaya - but when the music stops, and their aren't enough chargers to go around, we start calling each other "pricks". I would not be surprised if there is an owner of an FJ Cruiser reading this thread, and laughing at us.

Thanks for the attempt at "objectivity."

FWIW, I just spent $2k out of my yet to be received $2.5 Clean Fuel Vehicle (CFV) Rebate as a down payment on a 2012 Mercedes ML350 4Matic to replace my FJ for trips to the mountains and desert and anywhere else.

Just need to buy a new set of tires for it, which will use up the remaining $500 of the CFV Rebate and the $500 still due from PGE. The monthly payments on the Mercedes will be less than for the Bolt.

It can go off-road -- not like the FJ, of course -- but I don't plan to do that kind of 4wheeling anymore. If I ever take the ML350 on dirt, it will just be on paved/graded forest roads; no more steep narrow rocky trails for me.

This rounds out my stable of vehicles. Each has it's purpose. The Bolt is now my local daily driver; trips of 30-50 miles one-way or 60-100 miles RT max. All charging to take place at home. For anything else, I can take my BMW, MR2, ML350 or F250. Got it all covered now.

If that doesn't sit well w/the EV fanatics here, sorry. Never was and never will be one devoted to only using a non-ICE vehicle.

 

[SparkEVPilot]

If a person *knows* that they are going to be using EVgo DCFCs on a regular basis (at least 60 kWh/month), then you should just pay for the most expensive subscription rate - especially if you don't have easy access to overnight charging, and no easy access to non-EVgo DCFC charging.

3 DCFC charges of 30 mins using credit card (no sub) : ~60 kWh is ~$30 (3x$10)

3 charges of 30 mins on "Flex" plan (no monthly subscription price, but signed up) : ~60 kWh is ~$33 (3x$5 + 3x$6)

3 charges of 30 mins on "on-the-go" plan : ~60 kWh is ~$24 ($15/mo fee + 3x$3) which is ~$0.40/kWh
6 charges of 30 mins on "on-the-go" plan : ~120 kWh is ~$33 ($15/mo fee + 6x$3) which is ~$0.275/kWh
9 charges of 30 mins on "on-the-go" plan : ~180 kWh is ~$42 ($15/mo fee + 9x$3) which is ~$0.233/kWh

If you sign up for the most expensive plan, the cost for using their L2 units is $1/hr (so about 14.3 cents/kWh IF you can charge at 7 kW/hr). That may be less expensive than charging at home.

Now, I really dislike EVgo for many reasons (the first post outlines one of them) - but if you know that you are most likely going to be using one of their DCFCs about once a week for about 30 mins each time, then you should just sign up. Personally, I go out of my way to NOT use EVgo chargers, and so far I haven't had to. (I have pointed out non-EVgo DCFCs in the south bay on this forum several times.) I did get a free EVgo card for their 'flex' plan in case I got stuck one day, but haven't had to use it yet.

FYI - a guy driving from Salinas or Gilroy or Los Banos does have non-EVgo CCS DCFCs (multiple ones) along the route, and several non-EVgo 50 kW CCS DCFCs in the south bay (Fremont, San Jose/Santa Clara, Campbell), not even counting the 20 or 24 kW DCFCs in the south bay.

I live in the Central Valley of California and along HWY 99 you will not find many DCFCs other than EVgo. I, for one, have been using EVgo DCFCs for almost 2 years without any problems. I subscribed to the On-The-Go plan and even if I do not use it, I look at it as insurance to keep from getting stuck. So far, it has worked just great. I have also used the slower ChargePoint DCFCs with good results too.

I am following this forum to gather knowledge about the Chevy Bolt and the impact charging the 60 kWh battery will have on my ability to charge a Bolt should I decide to lease or purchase one. What I am seeing on this thread is very concerning - cries of being limited to 30-minutes of charging are now being loudly voiced through out valley. My question - How much daily range do you Bolt drivers REALLY NEED?

If you Bolt drivers have 20% of your battery capacity left when you pull up to a DCFC station, isn't that about 50 miles of range? 30 minutes of DCFC charging will add 75 miles more for a total of 125 miles of range. Do you need more than that to get to your destination?
Last week I drove to an EVgo DCFC location at Whole Foods in Lafayette, CA. This location has 2-EVgo DCFC combo chargers and 2-L2 EVSEs. When I arrived, I saw a Leaf on one DCFC, and I3 on the other, another I3 waiting to charge and two Teslas plugged into the L2s. Needless to say, I had to find another location to charge my Spark EV.

My point - as more and more EVs are sold, getting them charged anywhere but at home or work is going to become much more difficult unless we all work together to minimize the amount of time we use to charge our EVs. I do not get a sense there is that cooperation amongst the posts on this forum thread and that is a shame.

 

[sgt1372]

My point - as more and more EVs are sold, getting them charged anywhere but at home or work is going to become much more difficult unless we all work together to minimize the amount of time we use to charge our EVs. I do not get a sense there is that cooperation amongst the posts on this forum thread and that is a shame.

I think you make a good point. The problem is that EVs are so new and, as yet, so few, that there really hasn't been time to developed a commonly accepted standard of behavior for people who need to use charging stations.

The problem starts w/people in ICE vehicles parking "illegally" at charging stations, who either don't care or don't know any better because there's inadequate enforcement of "illegal" parking at charging stations or the spaces in front of the charging station are not properly marked as such.

I know of one Blink location w/2 chargers in front of a McD where there the spaces are NOT painted in green and where there is no signage whatsoever to indicate that this is a charging location for use by EV vehicles only. Thus, ICE drivers routinely park there making access impossible for EV users w/o a long J1772 extension cord.

Then there are those EV owners/users who hog a charger by charging "unnecessarily" (before they are actually at risk of running out of battery power) or charging longer than necessary (beyond what they would need to make it back home or to their destination).

Of course, what is "necessary" or "unnecessary" is entirely a matter of personal interpretation, hence the problem of a lack of a shared and accepted "standard of behavior" for using charging stations.

The problem would go away if there were LOTS and LOTS of charging stations (more than needed) everywhere and charging didn't take "so long" but these things aren't going to change anytime soon. So, we can expect greater continuing conflict about the use of charging stations as more and more EVs and hybrid plug-ins are sold/leased.

BTW, this is as much a problem for Tesla and their Supercharger network as it is for we plebeians who have to use the motley assortment of "public" charging stations. Tesla Supercharger sites are already jam-packed w/Tesla users using them.

Just imagine what will happen after all those M3 reservation holders who actually buy an M3 actually get one. You'll probably see a lot of them going to the public stations and using their J1772 adapter because they can't get a space as a Tesla Supercharger.

Then the fight will really be on. LOL!!

 

[SparkEVPilot]

My point - as more and more EVs are sold, getting them charged anywhere but at home or work is going to become much more difficult unless we all work together to minimize the amount of time we use to charge our EVs. I do not get a sense there is that cooperation amongst the posts on this forum thread and that is a shame.

I think you make a good point. The problem is that EVs are so new and, as yet, so few, that there really hasn't been time to developed a commonly accepted standard of behavior for people who need to use charging stations.

The problem starts w/people in ICE vehicles parking "illegally" at charging stations, who either don't care or don't know any better because there's inadequate enforcement of "illegal" parking at charging stations or the spaces in front of the charging station are not properly marked as such.

I know of one Blink location w/2 chargers in front of a McD where there the spaces are NOT painted in green and where there is no signage whatsoever to indicate that this is a charging location for use by EV vehicles only. Thus, ICE drivers routinely park there making access impossible for EV users w/o a long J1772 extension cord.

Then there are those EV owners/users who hog a charger by charging "unnecessarily" (before they are actually at risk of running out of battery power) or charging longer than necessary (beyond what they would need to make it back home or to their destination).

Of course, what is "necessary" or "unnecessary" is entirely a matter of personal interpretation, hence the problem of a lack of a shared and accepted "standard of behavior" for using charging stations.

The problem would go away if there were LOTS and LOTS of charging stations (more than needed) everywhere and charging didn't take "so long" but these things aren't going to change anytime soon. So, we can expect greater continuing conflict about the use of charging stations as more and more EVs and hybrid plug-ins are sold/leased.

BTW, this is as much a problem for Tesla and their Supercharger network as it is for we plebeians who have to use the motley assortment of "public" charging stations. Tesla Supercharger sites are already jam-packed w/Tesla users using them.

Just imagine what will happen after all those M3 reservation holders who actually buy an M3 actually get one. You'll probably see a lot of them going to the public stations and using their J1772 adapter because they can't get a space as a Tesla Supercharger.

Then the fight will really be on. LOL!!

I couldn't agree more. What I really would like to see is for some of the larger gasoline stations - especially those with mini-markets and restrooms - to install a minimum of 2 DCFC combo chargers. I am sure EV charging visits would add to their business. My nearest EVgo DCFC is 11 miles away. They have only one EVgo Combo charger, a mini-mart with a Deli and restrooms. Close by are places to stay over night, restaurants and fast food stores. This is my idea of a perfect location to charge and I frequent it often.

I was very please a couple of days ago when I visited the DCFC and found another Spark EV charging. Thinking I might have to wait a while, I asked the driver how long she would be. She answered 5 minutes. I know she did not get a 100% charge but she willingly disconnected so I could charge. I might have been able to get home to charge but I would have been close to calling the tow truck. What a nice example of courteous charging behavior. I plan to follow her example.

 

[Pigwich]

I don't know if this has been addressed yet, but a big problem with charging spots getting ICEd is that they put EV chargers in really great VIP movie star kind of parking spots in lots. One hand says "Well, we want to encourage people to drive EVs so we're going to give them perks" and that's great, I get it. The other argument is that copper is expensive, especially when you get in to 440 3 phase for hundreds of feet, and the further you get from buildings, the more of it you have to run. But the reality is that, especially when things get busy, parking spots are going to get taken, and people don't care if I go to hell and die, let alone if I can charge my stupid little electric douchemobile. See how putting chargers front and center might exacerbate this resentment? I really think that electrification of parking lots out to be a back-to-front kind of operation. Face it, it really is a luxury, and the less it looks like one, the easier it will be to swallow.

I personally don't care if I get preferential treatment in my parking spot. Usually, you're going to get out of your car for a while anyway, so it's not a big deal if the charger is in the ass-end of the parking lot. You might not get your shopping done while you traverse the asphalt, but your car will get getting it's electrons.

At any rate, it's good that we're having this discussion, since, as has been pointed out numerous times, this is all new territory, and it's important to get it as close to right as we can as early on in the game as possible so bad, dumb "that's just the way it is" things don't happen.

 

[michael]

I totally agree. It's not uncommon to see EVs in the close-in EV parking spots, not even plugged in. People treat it like handicapped parking for EV owners.

The spots should be in bad locations so only those who need a charge use them. And they should never be free.

 

[Anonymous]

Then there are those EV owners/users who hog a charger by charging "unnecessarily" (before they are actually at risk of running out of battery power) or charging longer than necessary (beyond what they would need to make it back home or to their destination).

Good point...

Why don't you suggest that Fast Charger manufacturers install 30 minute timers in their machines to eliminate this possibility! :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

The spots should be in bad locations so only those who need a charge use them. And they should never be free.

Generally it is tough to get the necessary 240 lines or higher out to these "bad" locations!

 

[SparkE]

You mentioned it, but it should be stressed that it costs more (a LOT more) to trench an extra 150-300 feet when retrofitting an existing location. It still costs more for a new location, but it is a LOT more when retrofitting.

There's a brand new parking structure in Santa Clara (next to San Jose, CA) where they put in almost TWO HUNDRED charging spaces - on the top floor of the structure. The EV spots aren't in prime locations. A win-win : EVs have to drive around and around all the way to the top and the spots are out in the weather (but they don't mind, since they don't have to worry about finding an available charging spot). The EVs who want to charge take up the LEAST desirable spots, leaving the more desirable spots on the lower floors for other vehicles.

 

[Anonymous]

Good planning and use of resources!

One of the early L2 installations was at the Whole Food Markets at the intersection of the 101 and 405 (I believed identified as the busiest intersection in the country), but wired right on the wall of the building as primary desirable parking spots and ICE'd all the time (until they installed another L2 out in the middle of the lot).

The downside of this location has always been that when Whole Foods closes down and shuts off their master switches, it seems there is no way to avoid shutting down these L2's as well, leaving a prime location just off these freeway exits without major charging service off hours. Many of us have talked to corporate but there seems to be no way around this problem, at least for now.

 

[SparkEVPilot]

I don't know if this has been addressed yet, but a big problem with charging spots getting ICEd is that they put EV chargers in really great VIP movie star kind of parking spots in lots. One hand says "Well, we want to encourage people to drive EVs so we're going to give them perks" and that's great, I get it. The other argument is that copper is expensive, especially when you get in to 440 3 phase for hundreds of feet, and the further you get from buildings, the more of it you have to run. But the reality is that, especially when things get busy, parking spots are going to get taken, and people don't care if I go to hell and die, let alone if I can charge my stupid little electric douchemobile. See how putting chargers front and center might exacerbate this resentment? I really think that electrification of parking lots out to be a back-to-front kind of operation. Face it, it really is a luxury, and the less it looks like one, the easier it will be to swallow.

I personally don't care if I get preferential treatment in my parking spot. Usually, you're going to get out of your car for a while anyway, so it's not a big deal if the charger is in the ass-end of the parking lot. You might not get your shopping done while you traverse the asphalt, but your car will get getting it's electrons.

At any rate, it's good that we're having this discussion, since, as has been pointed out numerous times, this is all new territory, and it's important to get it as close to right as we can as early on in the game as possible so bad, dumb "that's just the way it is" things don't happen.

Yep! Put the charging stations in a location that people will not like to park in. At the Bass Pro Shop in Manteca, CA, there are 8 TESLA Super Charging stations at the furthermost distance away from front of The Bass Pro Shop. I have never seen these locations ICED.

 

[Anonymous]

I am starting to see more and more EVGo Fast Chargers built that way, too; including the one I use up in the Newhall Ranch Marketplace.