Dan Neil on the Prius Prime

[winterescape]

More evidence on the "Bolt effect", Dan Neil reviews the Prius Prime and now sees the current Toyota implementation of the PHEV drivetrain as poor compared to the Volt or the Bolt....

"Toyota has a glorious history of car design in which the Prius Prime ($34,189, as tested) plays no part"

"That makes the Prius Prime a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle, or PHEV, like the Chevrolet Volt, except that the Toyota isn’t a patch on the Chevy. Let me count the ways: The Prime has only four seats to the Volt’s five; the Volt is peppy and fun to drive, while the Prime feels like it’s towing Noah’s Ark; and, critically, the Prime’s all-electric range is less than half that of the Volt—my observed average was closer to 16 miles."

"The Prime looks like erotic disappointment in gel-cap form."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/toyota-prius-prime-americas-most-popular-hybrid-lacks-energy-1515164115

 

[LeftieBiker]

The Prime is a better car to drive on longer trips than the Volt, and the Volt is better for trips within its AER. The Prius has a more comfortable interior, with more interior space and much better visibility. The Volt performs much better. If you want the 'EV experience' the Volt is the better car. If you just want fantastic fuel economy under all conditions then the Prius is better. That isn't the same as one car of the other being vastly better.

 

[boltage]

The Prime is a better car to drive on longer trips than the Volt, and the Volt is better for trips within its AER. The Prius has a more comfortable interior, with more interior space and much better visibility. The Volt performs much better. If you want the 'EV experience' the Volt is the better car. If you just want fantastic fuel economy under all conditions then the Prius is better. That isn't the same as one car of the other being vastly better.

The regular Prius (not Prime) is a better road trip car than either the Prius Prime or the Volt, due to better gasoline fuel economy and greater interior room.

Seems that the Prius Prime has a relatively narrow set of optimal users -- those whose driving patterns involve a mix of very short drives and very long drives.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You seem to be implying that the Prime doesn't do as well as the PIP on gas when the EV charge is depleted. Is that the case?

 

[winterescape]

If anyone is unable to read the story because they are hitting the WSJ paywall try this:

• Open a "in private" browser window
  go to google
  search for the term "Toyota Prius Prime Lacks Energy"
  in the search results, below the adds, find the link to the wsj story, should be top or very near top of search results
  follow the link to read the story but do not click away or close the window until finished

 

[DesertSprings]

Does the Prime at least have enough head room for a normal sized adult male to sit upright? The Volt Gen 2 does not.

 

[DucRider]

You seem to be implying that the Prime doesn't do as well as the PIP on gas when the EV charge is depleted. Is that the case?

The PIP was rated at 50 mpg on gas (2012-2015). On electric (all 6 miles) it was 95 MPGe.
The Prime is rated 54 mpg on gas and 133 MPGe on electric (25 miles).

If you were referring to the non plug-in versions, the standard Prius is rated 46 mpg and the Prius C is 52 mpg.

Worth noting:
The Prime was >25% of all US Prius sales in December.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I was referring to this comment from Boltage:

The regular Prius (not Prime) is a better road trip car than either the Prius Prime or the Volt, due to better gasoline fuel economy and greater interior room.

Since the PIP gets 55-60MPG after the EV charge is depleted, I was wondering if the Prime had gotten worse fuel economy that the PIP when the charge was depleted. If not, then Boltage is wrong. The Prime should, because of the larger lithium pack, get better fuel economy as a regular hybrid than a Prius II or even a Prius Eco.

 

[boltage]

Looking further, seems I was half-right on Prius versus Prius Prime economy (in hybrid mode):

EPA numbers:
56 (58/53) Prius Eco
54 (NA/NA) Prius Prime
52 (54/50) Prius

CR numbers:
52 (43/59) Prius
50 (NA/NA) Prius Prime

 

[DucRider]

Since the PIP gets 55-60MPG after the EV charge is depleted,..

The PIP gets 50 mpg after the charge is depleted (EPA ratings). The Prime is rated higher at 52.
Like always, YMMV and different drivers will see different results, but the Prime should do slightly better than the old PIP (and has ~4 times the AER).

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm not sure what it is about the EPA tests that disadvantage the plug in models, but in the real world, people get better fuel economy with them with EV charge depleted.

Actually, I think I do know. Lead-footed testers and HOV-oriented drivers (also lead foots) would tend to cancel the PHEVs' advantage by using the engine more to accelerate the extra battery weight quickly, while people who actually buy a PHEV usually drive them more gently - at least gently enough to allow the larger pack to give them better fuel economy.

 

[oilerlord]

The Prime is a better car to drive on longer trips than the Volt, and the Volt is better for trips within its AER. The Prius has a more comfortable interior, with more interior space and much better visibility. The Volt performs much better. If you want the 'EV experience' the Volt is the better car. If you just want fantastic fuel economy under all conditions then the Prius is better. That isn't the same as one car of the other being vastly better.

It's a pity it's such a dork-mobile though, and a slow one at that. I guess all cars may eventually look that way as corporate average fuel economy numbers become harder achieve without adapting extreme aero designs.

 

[SparkE]

The Prime is a better car to drive on longer trips than the Volt, and the Volt is better for trips within its AER. The Prius has a more comfortable interior, with more interior space and much better visibility. The Volt performs much better. If you want the 'EV experience' the Volt is the better car. If you just want fantastic fuel economy under all conditions then the Prius is better. That isn't the same as one car of the other being vastly better.

It's a pity it's such a dork-mobile though, and a slow one at that. I guess all cars may eventually look that way as corporate average fuel economy numbers become harder achieve without adapting extreme aero designs.

I don't think that the Ioniq looks that bad, and it also has a Cx of 0.24 ...

But maybe that's just me. Heck, there are people that think the vehicle below doesn't look dorky ... :

 

[LeftieBiker]

Hey, someone slapped a Mercedes nose on a Fiat! That's cute! ;-)

 

[oilerlord]

Heck, there are people that think the vehicle below doesn't look dorky ... :

Nope, still dorky. Just somewhat less dorky than some others.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Mercedes' brief (?) but disastrous partnership with Chrysler ruined the appeal of that nose, actually. There are cheap-crap Chryslers limping around the US (and Europe, too) with that nose, and Mercedes is still trying to make people forget it.

 

[oilerlord]

Meh, you're seeing something I'm not.

I'd agree that aero designs are making the front of a lot of cars look the same though. It's probably one of the sacrifices made to get the B250e down to a drag coefficient of only 0.24 - the same as the Ioniq electric. I still find that number a little hard to believe given my car is still quite tall & practical. The B250 gasoline model is pretty popular here in Canada (but not sold in the US). I see them on the road all the time. I changed out the dorky pizza-pan EV wheels for the ones found on E-Class models. My B now has some Class.