Chevrolet Bolt Start Of Production Set For October 2016?

[michael]

I have a daily commute about 80 miles round trip. Typically I use less than 25 kWh during the day. With a typical 6 kW level 2 charging station, this would be recharged in 4 to 5 hours. There should be absolutely no problem using a Bolt for any halfway normal daily usage pattern.

Level 1 charging is simply not enough for serious usage. People have to understand and accept that. My wife uses Level 1 for her Volt, and it works fine for her. But a pure BEV is a different matter. 6 kW does the job, less is a problem.

A Bolt's 60 kWh battery, even if fully depleted, can be recharged in about 10 hours with 6 kW L2 charging. Normal use should not depend on fully discharging the battery.

 

[ssspinball]

Wow, an 80 mile daily commute, L1 charger, and a first-gen Leaf leaves no room for error! :shock: Forget to plug in or encounter any expected traffic jams / detours and you'd have a bad day, to put it lightly.

A 60 kWh Bolt will be a massive improvement for you.

 

[Diggle]

Getting a few cars out before 2016 seems possible. But it'll be 2017 before they start selling the car nationwide.

 

[Mailman13]

Wow, an 80 mile daily commute, L1 charger, and a first-gen LEAF leaves no room for error! :shock: Forget to plug in or encounter any expected traffic jams / detours and you'd have a bad day, to put it lightly.

A 60 kWh Bolt will be a massive improvement for you.

Not directed at me I know, but I can relate.
My commute was only 45 miles I think and I could hardly do L1 for one month in the Winter, before I went L2.

Also, traffic jams were no problem unless you had the heater on, as the guess-o-meter hardly moved. Detours were a problem for sure, like when my wife would have me leave work and go North (opposite direction) to Carrabba's, then try to make it home! I would be sweating bullets!!!

I had a power outage only twice in two years, but I have a generator so...no big deal. I did forget to charge it, but only three times during the two-year lease. You are dead in the water though and if that's your 2nd car and the other is gone....

When people would ask me about LEAF electric cars, I would tell them the truth. In a lot of cases it needs to be your third vehicle, even with only two drivers. Trust me. If you use it as a local grocery getter 2nd card, you'll be fine, because the regenerative braking really helps around town.

What I really do miss this time of year is having the vehicle cooled off for 15 to 30 minutes, before I'd leave from work. The LEAF AC was 250% more efficient than the heater I read, so I would only lose about 2% cooling it off.

I never ran it to completely dead, but I did get it in "Turtle mode" twice. I had to pull into a convenience store and plug up for 2 hours (110 only), just to make it a few more miles home. If it goes dead, you're supposed to call Nissan and have them put it on a rollback and bring it back to Nissan to be reset they said.

I can't wait to get the Bolt, as that battery will make such a big difference for me, but I wouldn't try to fool yourself into thinking that it will go 200 miles on a charge. When I got the 2013 LEAF, I naively thought that it would get the 100, or even 80, but with my driving, it never did.

 

[Aidan]

Is it correct that EV's are heavier than gas engine vehicles?

 

[sam]

An electric vehicles battery is 40% of the overall weight whereas a gas car's engine is 25% of the overall weight

 

[Anonymous]

Is it correct that EV's are heavier than gas engine vehicles?

For the equivalent size, generally, yes.
Fortunately, the weight of the battery pack low in the car has a positive effect on handling.

Look at reviews of the BMW i3 or Tesla and you will find the handling is a significant positive for well designed EV's.

 

[DucRider]

Is it correct that EV's are heavier than gas engine vehicles?

For the equivalent size, generally, yes.
Fortunately, the weight of the battery pack low in the car has a positive effect on handling.

Look at reviews of the BMW i3 or Tesla and you will find the handling is a significant positive for well designed EV's.

As an example:
Honda Fit
curb weight 2496 lbs
62/38 weight distribution
Fit EV
3252 lbs
55/45

 

[litesong]

Is it correct that EV's are heavier than gas engine vehicles?

If you're worried that Bolt won't be efficient, electric motors are wildly more efficient than internal combustion engines(ICE). Even tho EVs are heavier, electricity will cost much less than gasoline..... & of course, ICE is wildly more polluting than EVs. In city, EVs will save lots of peoples lives, specially those with breathing problems.

 

[litesong]

A Bolt's 60 kWh battery, even if fully depleted, can be recharged in about 10 hours

Charge batteries to 100% & discharge them completely, only in a life threatening situation, or you'll kill the battery life quickly. Charge batteries only to 80% capacity & don't discharge below 20% for a long-lived battery. Charging slowly & discharging slowly (driving slow) extends battery life, compared to continuous lead footing & quick charging. Back road 35mph exploring will dramatically extend your range compared to 70 or 80 mph freeway driving. Batteries don't care about your agenda & love to be treated gently...... like most people do. Someone should be checking on the leadfooters & quick chargers to see how badly the batteries are holding up. Anyone got data?

 

[SeanNelson]

A Bolt's 60 kWh battery, even if fully depleted, can be recharged in about 10 hours

Charge batteries to 100% & discharge them completely, only in a life threatening situation, or you'll kill the battery life quickly.

The car itself maintains a battery buffer. When the car shows "100% charge" the battery isn't really completely full, the car is preventing any further charge to preserve battery life. The same is true when the car shows "0% charge" - there's still charge left in the battery.

So never charging to what the car shows as "100% full" or discharging to "0% full" just means that you're needlessly reducing the range that the car is capable of. You'll probably baby the battery a bit by doing so, but you won't improve battery longevity nearly as much as the car does by maintaining its own safety margin.

 

[stephen]

Is it correct that EV's are heavier than gas engine vehicles?

Yes, most of the times. The batteries in EVs are heavier which makes the vehicles heavier in turn.

 

[DucRider]

A Bolt's 60 kWh battery, even if fully depleted, can be recharged in about 10 hours

Charge batteries to 100% & discharge them completely, only in a life threatening situation, or you'll kill the battery life quickly. Charge batteries only to 80% capacity & don't discharge below 20% for a long-lived battery. Charging slowly & discharging slowly (driving slow) extends battery life, compared to continuous lead footing & quick charging. Back road 35mph exploring will dramatically extend your range compared to 70 or 80 mph freeway driving. Batteries don't care about your agenda & love to be treated gently...... like most people do. Someone should be checking on the leadfooters & quick chargers to see how badly the batteries are holding up. Anyone got data?

You are only partially correct - charging and discharging quickly does not harm the batteries, the heat generated during this process has the greatest consequences. Cars with active thermal management (like the Bolt) can keep the battery temps much closer to their happy place and that is the most important factor in extending battery life.

As stated above - the 100% charge you see is not the entire capacity of the battery.

 

[litesong]

The car itself maintains a battery buffer. When the car shows "100% charge" the battery isn't really completely full, the car is preventing any further charge to preserve battery life. The same is true when the car shows "0% charge" - there's still charge left in the battery.

So never charging to what the car shows as "100% full" or discharging to "0% full" just means that you're needlessly reducing the range that the car is capable of. You'll probably baby the battery a bit by doing so, but you won't improve battery longevity nearly as much as the car does by maintaining its own safety margin.

"sean" & "ducrider" says that Chevy Bolt accounts for the standard charging 80%-20% for lithium-ion batteries rule by lying to us with their 100% charge & 0% discharge limits. Breaking the standard charging 80%-20% rule for lithium-ion batteries is not......standard operating procedure & "sean" & "ducrider" admit some truncation of longevity will occur. Continually charging to Chevy's "thought to be lying" 100% & continually discharging to Chevy's "thought to be lying" 0% discharge, may allow drivers to find out that Chevy is lying for a third time......when batteries begin dying prematurely. Hey, this is "new tech". No need to max out "new tech" before all the cards are on the table.

Formula E racing cars (fully electric cars) meter their batteries accurately & many drivers start their last lap before pitting, with the charge down to 2%-3%. But, the driver starting its last lap & passing its pit stop with only 1% charge remaining, may find themselves stranded & discharged somewhere along the race course & short of its pit stop.

 

[Anonymous]

I charge my Smart ED to 100% daily.
That is almost 1000 charges to 100% in almost 3 years of ownership.
Not a bit of range loss or battery degradation so far.

My blog has detailed on the Smart ED battery system, which does reserve charge at the top and bottom just as outlined up thread.
http://mysmartelectricdrive.blogspot.ca/2014/06/fortunately-world-class-engineers-are.html

 

[SeanNelson]

The car itself maintains a battery buffer. When the car shows "100% charge" the battery isn't really completely full, the car is preventing any further charge to preserve battery life. The same is true when the car shows "0% charge" - there's still charge left in the battery.

"sean" & "ducrider" says that Chevy Bolt accounts for the standard charging 80%-20% for lithium-ion batteries rule by lying to us with their 100% charge & 0% discharge limits.

It's not just the Bolt - it's the standard way that the battery charge is reported on all EVs that I know of.

Continually charging to Chevy's "thought to be lying" 100% & continually discharging to Chevy's "thought to be lying" 0% discharge, may allow drivers to find out that Chevy is lying for a third time......when batteries begin dying prematurely.

The Chevy Volt is the acid test for battery longevity because unlike battery-only EVs the Volt has a gasoline range extender and therefore it's very common for people to completely discharge the batteries and continue driving on gasoline only. So Volt batteries are routinely discharged to what the car reports as "0%" (which isn't really 0%), and then they're charged to a reported "100%" (but not really totally charged) overnight.

Despite this "harsh" treatment of the batteries there are very few reports of Volt battery degradation - not even from the person who's driven his Volt over 300,000 miles.

The Bolt uses very similar batteries and it's very unlikely to have them completely used up on a daily basis like many Volt drivers do - so I'm really not worried about their longevity.

 

[Mailman13]

Charge batteries to 100% & discharge them completely, only in a life threatening situation, or you'll kill the battery life quickly. Charge batteries only to 80% capacity & don't discharge below 20% for a long-lived battery. Charging slowly & discharging slowly (driving slow) extends battery life, compared to continuous lead footing & quick charging. Back road 35mph exploring will dramatically extend your range compared to 70 or 80 mph freeway driving. Batteries don't care about your agenda & love to be treated gently...... like most people do. Someone should be checking on the leadfooters & quick chargers to see how badly the batteries are holding up. Anyone got data?

Sadly I kept no data but,
I drove my 2013 Leaf "S" wide open every day 80 to 90 mph on the Interstate, including jack rabbit starts from every traffic light while in town. The car was absolutely a blast to drive with the quickness and low center of gravity. Getting the $7500 plus $5000 kickbacks made it even more fun.

At work I would turn it on with the AC on at least 30 minutes before I'd clock out each day. That way it would be cooled off when I was ready to leave. It usually used about two to three percent doing this, but with 95 to 100 degree temps each Summer day, it was worth it. Also, I preconditioned my car every day during the Winter. The car sat outside, so I'd set it to be "ready" by 7 am each day. That used more electricity of course, but sure was nice coming out to a warm, frost free vehicle. My neighbors would be outside cleaning theirs off each morning, just staring at me and shaking their heads.

I L2-charged it to 100% every day. The Nissan rep said that since I wasn't going to buy it after the lease was up, go ahead and charge it to 100%. When I turned it in after my two-year lease, I had not lost one single bar. The cars range though, did seem like it had been shortened a small amount, but with the GOM guess-o-meter. it was really hard to tell.

I wish that I had kept up with the data, but at least the Leaf forums had people that did. Tons of graphs and charts from what I remember.

Also, I forgot to add that the car would be flashing "Low battery" each day, just before I reached my house at the end of my work commute. The GOM guess-o-meter would show less than 10 miles range left.

 

[DucRider]

"sean" & "ducrider" says that Chevy Bolt accounts for the standard charging 80%-20% for lithium-ion batteries rule by lying to us with their 100% charge & 0% discharge limits. Breaking the standard charging 80%-20% rule for lithium-ion batteries is not......standard operating procedure & "sean" & "ducrider" admit some truncation of longevity will occur. Continually charging to Chevy's "thought to be lying" 100% & continually discharging to Chevy's "thought to be lying" 0% discharge, may allow drivers to find out that Chevy is lying for a third time......when batteries begin dying prematurely. Hey, this is "new tech". No need to max out "new tech" before all the cards are on the table.

Formula E racing cars (fully electric cars) meter their batteries accurately & many drivers start their last lap before pitting, with the charge down to 2%-3%. But, the driver starting its last lap & passing its pit stop with only 1% charge remaining, may find themselves stranded & discharged somewhere along the race course & short of its pit stop.

The 80%-20% is not a "Rule" but a "Rule of Thumb".
I don't think you understand exactly what is happening when a car shows 100% SOC (State of Charge). That is 100% of usable capacity. For example, the Mercedes B-Class states a battery capacity of 28 kWh (the "usable" portion). The actual pack size is 36 kWh. The BMW i3 pack size is 22 kWh (rounded from 21.6), but the usable portion is 18.8 kWh.
The BMS (Battery Management System) controls the charge and discharge rates, cell balancing, etc. and is in charge with maintaining the health of the battery. One of the key components is "Cell Balancing" (Battery balancing is done by transferring energy from or to individual cells, until the SOC of the cell with the lowest capacity is equal to the battery's SOC.), and that ONLY happens when charging to 100% of the "usable" capacity. If you never charge to 100%, your car won't perform this critical function and you risk damaging individual cells.

I'm not sure why you think they are "lying" when showing 0% and 100% SOC - that's the real world percentage of what is available to you. BTW, the SOC on formula E cars is also based on usable capacity - the BMS on ANY EV will shut down the car before discharging the battery to a point that will harm it (they usually enter a reduced power or "Turtle" mode before shutting down completely).

In summary:
YES - it is harmful to completely charge or discharge a Li Ion battery
NO - you don't have to do it - the car handles it (based on many more parameters that you have access to or could possibly monitor)

It may be "New Tech" to you, but electric cars have been around for more than 100 years.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

The BMS (Battery Management System) controls the charge and discharge rates, cell balancing, etc. and is in charge with maintaining the health of the battery. One of the key components is "Cell Balancing" (Battery balancing is done by transferring energy from or to individual cells, until the SOC of the cell with the lowest capacity is equal to the battery's SOC.), and that ONLY happens when charging to 100% of the "usable" capacity. If you never charge to 100%, your car won't perform this critical function and you risk damaging individual cells.

I'm just curious here - is there a technical reason why this can only be done at 100% SoC? Or are you just extrapolating since we know that many EVs, like the Leaf, only balance at the top end. I thought the idea was equalize the voltage across all of the cells. This, of course, can be done at any SoC.

 

[WetEV]

I'm just curious here - is there a technical reason why this can only be done at 100% SoC? Or are you just extrapolating since we know that many EVs, like the Leaf, only balance at the top end. I thought the idea was equalize the voltage across all of the cells. This, of course, can be done at any SoC.

Yes, voltage can be equalized across all the cells at any SOC. Top balancing (at 100%) is best, as more energy is stored. As the voltage drops as the cells are discharged, more energy can be stored by maximizing the voltages on cells.