Bolt self started/moved, and backed into garage wall/cabinet

[d2170]

Have GM scheduled a visit yet?

yes, here for 4+ hours and went over every detail, and now will be waiting for the outcome.

Very happy to hear they are taking you seriously!

Was the tech from your local GM dealership? Or was he from GM Detroit?

Please keep us informed.

 

[jeff3948]

Based on the pictures I have seen of this accident and your statements I'm shocked. You say before you left, the car was backed into the garage and then shifted into park and then you turned it off. Even with the app to turn the air conditioning or heating on while the car is parked you would not be able to shift the car into reverse remotely. For a person to do what the car did automatically would require the person to be in the car with the proximity key fab, press the start button, put their foot on the brake and then shift into reverse, release the brake and then press the accelerator pedal. For the car to do that by itself would be a massive and very complicated programming error, which would be highly unlikely. I am eager to see what GM says the Black box reveals.

 

[dandrewk]

Don't hold your breath waiting for an update from the O.P. He seems to have disappeared. Most here are thinking his story is an alternate fact.

 

[ScooterCT]

Alternate fact is one theory. Another more likely theory is that GM had him sign a non-disclosure agreement in return for buying back his car or some other favorable disposition. Happens all the time (see Tesla).

I guess if you're a Bolt fanboy, the guy is some evildoer from the Dark Side. If you despise the Bolt (or GM) , then obviously GM shut him up to block embarrassing news. If you're neither, you're waiting with no particular interest to see if you ever hear about this again.

 

[jeff3948]

Dear ScooterCT and dandrewk, First, there is no such thing as an alternative fact. An alternative fact is in fact a lie. But, you're right, if we ever hear from Chevy or the O.P. on what Chevy tells them what happened in this case it will be a surprise. We just have to wait to see if anyone else has a similar problem and since I'm a Bolt "fanboy", I hope not. But I don't think he is an evil doer from the dark side. The reason I said it would have been a huge and complicated programming error is because I'm a programmer myself and an error like that just does not make sense as to how it could have happened, but it is still remotely possible.

 

[dandrewk]

Alternate fact is one theory. Another more likely theory is that GM had him sign a non-disclosure agreement in return for buying back his car or some other favorable disposition. Happens all the time (see Tesla).

I guess if you're a Bolt fanboy, the guy is some evildoer from the Dark Side. If you despise the Bolt (or GM) , then obviously GM shut him up to block embarrassing news. If you're neither, you're waiting with no particular interest to see if you ever hear about this again.

Given that the OP's only "proof" is an image that shows zero damage (and thus, highly suspect, maybe even staged), I'll stick with my alternate fact theory. If that makes me a "fanboy", then so be it. But like many others, this "issue" is so fantastical and unsubstantiated, it's 100% unbelievable.

Is there any wonder why the OP has vanished?

 

[dandrewk]

Dear ScooterCT and dandrewk, First, there is no such thing as an alternative fact. An alternative fact is in fact a lie.

The term "alternATE fact" is new to the lexicon, and it has already become synonymous for "bare faced lie". For proof, look no further than the source of the term.

 

[SparkE]

dandrewk, I think that you have trumped every comment on this thread so far ...

:mrgreen:

 

[CGameProgrammer]

They were obviously using "alternative fact" in jest, referencing Kellyanne Conway using the term when referring to the new White House press secretary who blatantly lied about the number of attendees at Trump's inauguration.

 

[SoCalif]

Been a while since I last posted since I have received no updates from GM (Detroit) as of yet. They said that only some information/details is actually available on the recorder, and those 3 who came here were unsure (or wouldn't say) what details exactly were actually recorded, how detailed it really is. They each just downloaded and forwarded the information to Detroit that day, and did many test scenarios for a few hours. They did recommend making sure it was in Park, with the Parking Brake, and said until I hear from them to put chocks on also. ~Stay Tuned

Have GM scheduled a visit yet?

yes, here for 4+ hours and went over every detail, and now will be waiting for the outcome.

Very happy to hear they are taking you seriously!

Was the tech from your local GM dealership? Or was he from GM Detroit?

Please keep us informed.

 

[gpsman]

The problem is wireless / keyless starting and running.

If the physical key were needed like the good old days this wouldnt be an issue. Why is turning a key then taking it out with you when you leave such an inconvienence that we have done away with this safety feature?

How much damage was done? This would tell us how fast the car was actually moving when it hit the work bench. From the one photo posted to another forum, it doesn't look like a lot.

No matter the scenario for how it happened, I suspect GM is going to have make some changes to how the car alerts you to having left it in a state where it may not be secure. As I have already discovered, it's really easy to walk away from the car while it is "running." Part of the problem is the use of obsolete language to describe how an EV operates.

 

[gpsman]

Also, we need to get away from the idea of "shifting".

There is no shifting.

There is no low gear.
There is no reverse gear.
There is no neutral.

Pretend low gear is just extra regen for extra deceleration. A software setting.

Pretend reverse gear is just applying voltage and current to the motor in an opposite polarity. A software setting.

Pretend neutral is just eliminating all voltage and current from going to the motor. A software setting.

There is no transmission. There are no gears to transition to/from. The wheels and the electric motor are always connected.

The little lever in the center console is not physically connected to anything. It is literally a joystick.

What I do not know as I have not yet recieved my Bolt is: Is there a parking pawl (pin) that pins the wheels (or more appropriately, motor) so it/ they can't turn in "park"?

There is no parking pawl in manual transmission cars.
Hence the parking brake is ALWAYS required when parked.

There is always a parking pawl (pin) in automatic transmission cars. The shift lever literally, and physically pushes a pin into the transmission preventing it from moving when parked. Hence the parking brake is NEVER REQUIRED in automatic transmission cars. Yes, it can be helpful when parking on slopes. But the "helpfulness" is to help remove the parking pawl and get the car rolling again. It's really no extra help or safety measure to PREVENT the car from rolling. ( short of a child or pet moving the lever out of Park ). It is a "redundant" system in an automatic transmission. Not required, but nice to have.

So what does the Bolt have, being neither a manual nor automatic transmission? It is a direct drive. Fixed ratio between motor and wheels all the time.

Does it have an "electronic" parking pawl?
My gut says yes. But it may not.
If not, it makes the accident described in the original post 1000 times more likely.

Also with an "electronic" parking brake, how do you hold the car still if you have no electric power? Such as after a major accident or if you remove the battery for any reason.

 

[roundpeg]

The problem is wireless / keyless starting and running.

If the physical key were needed like the good old days this wouldnt be an issue. Why is turning a key then taking it out with you when you leave such an inconvienence that we have done away with this safety feature?

I suspect there's no going back. Keyless entry and starting is a convenience feature people like. It will have to be more intelligently implemented.

 

[roundpeg]

Does it have an "electrinic" parking pawl?
My gut says yes. But it may not.
If not, it makes the accident described in the original post 1000 times more likely.

Yes, it seems to have one. If you set the parking brake with your foot on the brake pedal you feel it go down, and you can hear it physically inserting a pawl into (I believe) the rear wheels.

 

[sendler2112]

The problem is fully autonomous driving which the Bolt has full hardware which is just not yet unlocked. The Tesla will already back itself out of the garage with no key if you call for it.

 

[CGameProgrammer]

You're wrong about the motor and generator always being connected. They go through a planetary gear set. Neutral is a true neutral which is why the manual states very explicitly that you must be in neutral if being towed or the drive system could get damaged. Also in neutral there is no regeneration whatsoever, not even when braking.

 

[SeanNelson]

Does it have an "electronic" parking pawl?

It does have a parking pawl. I test drove a Bolt and parked on a slight slope, then put the car into "Park" without engaging the parking brake. When I turned the car off it rocked back and forth a bit exactly the same way a car with an automatic transmission does when the parking pawl settles into a detent.

 

[boltage]

There is no parking pawl in manual transmission cars.
Hence the parking brake is ALWAYS required when parked.

There is always a parking pawl (pin) in automatic transmission cars. The shift lever literally, and physically pushes a pin into the transmission preventing it from moving when parked. Hence the parking brake is NEVER REQUIRED in automatic transmission cars. Yes, it can be helpful when parking on slopes. But the "helpfulness" is to help remove the parking pawl and get the car rolling again. It's really no extra help or safety measure to PREVENT the car from rolling. ( short of a child or pet moving the lever out of Park ). It is a "redundant" system in an automatic transmission. Not required, but nice to have.

Actually, both manual and automatic transmission cars should be parked with the parking brake as the primary means of keeping the car from rolling away. The transmission is always the backup. With a manual transmission, it should be left in gear. Some old Saabs required the manual transmission to be in reverse to remove the key.

On slopes, it is also desirable to turn the wheels so that they catch on the curb, if possible.

 

[phil0909]

Also, we need to get away from the idea of "shifting".

There is no shifting.

There is no low gear.
There is no reverse gear.
There is no neutral.

Hello gpsman - I don't agree with this. There obviously is shifting - the car is shifted to D, L, and N. You may be laboring under the impression that the word "shift" is derived from the word "gearshift", but of course the opposite is true. Shift is a perfectly good, useful word in the English language. It basically means change, or more particularly a change in direction, emphasis, position, or mode. Stuff gets shifted every day, having nothing to do with motor vehicles, and the Bolt is shifted from D to R and so on.

You may have a better case for 'gear', but GM and other manufacturers still apply that term to electric cars like the Bolt. For example, the Bolt's 'gears' and shifting are referenced repeatedly throughout the Bolt EV Owner's Manual. You're fighting a losing battle here.

 

[devbolt]

There is no parking pawl in manual transmission cars.
Hence the parking brake is ALWAYS required when parked.

There is always a parking pawl (pin) in automatic transmission cars. The shift lever literally, and physically pushes a pin into the transmission preventing it from moving when parked. Hence the parking brake is NEVER REQUIRED in automatic transmission cars. Yes, it can be helpful when parking on slopes. But the "helpfulness" is to help remove the parking pawl and get the car rolling again. It's really no extra help or safety measure to PREVENT the car from rolling. ( short of a child or pet moving the lever out of Park ). It is a "redundant" system in an automatic transmission. Not required, but nice to have.

Actually, both manual and automatic transmission cars should be parked with the parking brake as the primary means of keeping the car from rolling away. The transmission is always the backup. With a manual transmission, it should be left in gear. Some old Saabs required the manual transmission to be in reverse to remove the key.

On slopes, it is also desirable to turn the wheels so that they catch on the curb, if possible.

When I was taught to drive, it was stressed that you always curb your wheels on a slope. In my city, if you don't curb your wheels properly, you can get a ticket. So it's not just desirable, but required. I also always put the parking brake on in a car, whether it's an automatic or manual transmission, or hybrid/EV transmission.

With some hybrid transmissions and most EV transmissions, traditional thinking about how transmissions work has to be set aside. There are no gears in the sense of an automatic or manual transmissions. No dogs, clutches, different gearing ratios, etc. It's just set points in software that are directing the flow of electrons. However, in order to spur acceptance of hybrids and EVs to a less than technologicaly-informed set of potential customers, it is necessary to continue to describe things using terms that most of the market understands. Despite the fact that things work entirely different, the end result is the same: forward or reverse motion when you press the accelerator pedal.

Traditional elements are still there. There's still a parking pawl and a parking brake. And you should still use the parking pawl, set the parking brake, and curb your wheels when the car is stopped and parked.