BMW man likes Bolt EV

[sgt1372]

As promised some data supporting the idea that I am indeed a 'BMW Man - my watch on the dash of my Bolt EV and my 2014 BMW 328i Msport. The BMW sits mostly in the garage these days as I am totally commuting in the Bolt and only taking the BMW out from time to time for a spin.

My BMW 335i also mostly sits in the garage but it did that before I got the Bolt. It's just a toy that I keep because I put so much $ in it when I 1st got it to bring it up to snuff and can never get that $ back out again, even if I sell it.

My MR2 is also a toy but it didn't cost me as much as the BMW. It's my motorcycle substitute and I love driving it on the back roads. The BMW is my high speed GTO definted as: " a performance and luxury automobile capable of high speed and long-distance driving."

BTW, for "uploading" pics, I found it easier to post the a pic to my facebook account and then just copying in the link here as an

 

[Fargoneandout]

Sgt! What say you to the idea of the Flyin' Miata? I'm wondering if that isn't on my toy list. The concept of an MX-5 retrofitted with a small-block V8 sounds mighty interesting.

To be frank though, there are a lot of E39 5-series here in SoCal so the 328i might go away for a nice 545i in good shape. I love the Bolt but it won't be driving back and forth to Vegas, whereas a E39 5-series in nice shape with some mechanical wrinkles to sort out would be just the think for high speed desert cruising.

 

[sgt1372]

Sgt! What say you to the idea of the Flyin' Miata? I'm wondering if that isn't on my toy list. The concept of an MX-5 retrofitted with a small-block V8 sounds mighty interesting.

I think that the Flyin Miata would be too high powered to be enjoyable in most backroad drives that I contemplate, as would the Viper.

I've driven the Viper and a stock Miata roadster and I would prefer the Miata for my purposes but that doesn't mean the Viper nor the Flyin Miata don't have their place on the road, if that place is well chosen.

Enjoy!

 

[JupiterMoon]

First time trying to upload a photo so if, as in the first Matrix film, there "is no spoon," so to speak it isn't for lack of trying.

More comparison impressions of i3 to Bolt. A second friend has an i3. It too is a Rex version. I didn't get to drive this one but my friend, the owner, and I drove mine over lunch. He too likes the Bolt and though he also likes his i3 he too will likely go Bolt. What bugged him most about the i3 is first, that the hates the tires and suspension setup and second that the tires are prone to wear and very expensive to replace. He said he had to change is rear tires at 13k miles. BMW is going to have to up their ante considerably if they wish to compete with the Bolt. Both i3 owners openly scoffed at the idea that barfing up an extra 10k for a badge on an inferior (to them and to me) product.

It depends if you buy or lease. If you lease, you'll pay a lot more for the Bolt than the i3.

Secondly, inferior in what way? The interior of the i3 is far better quality than the Bolt IMO. I've spent a lot of time in i3's and I can say hands down it's a better product and far more innovative in a lot of ways other than the battery pack....which frankly is a matter of size and capacity.

Obviously the badge name has some part in paying for a car but the i3's cost is mainly in its incorporated tech. When Chevy builds an EV that's composite and weighs as little as an i3, then we'll see just how much the Bolt will cost.

Also, needless to say, the service you get at BMW is head and shoulders above what I've experienced at ANY Chevy dealer. That has some value as well....to me.

 

[sgt1372]

Also, needless to say, the service you get at BMW is head and shoulders above what I've experienced at ANY Chevy dealer. That has some value as well....to me.

I've NEVER taken my BMW for service. WAY too expensive for what you get but I do like their waiting areas that I use when I go to the dealer to buy parts.

As for servicing the Bolt, what servicing would that be?

Apart from visits for repairs and recalls that hopefully won't be necessary, the Bolt supposedly only requires a tire rotation every 7,500 miles, a change of the cabin air filter every 22,500 miles and a drain/fill of the coolant systems at 150k miles. That's it!

I can do the tire rotations and cabin air filter changes at home by myself and, if I don't feel like doing the tire rotation, they'll do them for free at America's Tire. That's why they've been saying that the Bolt requires essentially ZERO maintenance for the 1st 150k miles.

See: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/chevy-bolt-maintenance-schedule/

PS: I'll be surrendering my Bolt at less than 30k miles when the lease expires in 3 years. So, I would only have to do 3 tire rotations, 1 cabin air filter change and won't even be bothered w/the coolant change in that time period.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Also, needless to say, the service you get at BMW is head and shoulders above what I've experienced at ANY Chevy dealer. That has some value as well....to me.

I've NEVER taken my BMW for service. WAY too expensive for what you get but I do like their waiting areas that I use when I go to the dealer to buy parts.

As for servicing the Bolt, what servicing would that be?

Apart from visits for repairs and recalls that hopefully won't be necessary, the Bolt supposedly only requires a tire rotation every 7,500 miles, a change of the cabin air filter every 22,500 mile and a drain/fill of the coolant systems at 150k miles. That's it!

I can do the tire rotations and cabin air filter changes at home by myself and, if I don't feel like doing the tire rotation, they'll do them for free at America's Tire. That's why they've been saying that the Bolt requires essentially ZERO maintenance for the 1st 150k miles.

See: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/chevy-bolt-maintenance-schedule/

There's about as little servicing for the BMW as there is the Bolt...particularly if you don't get the REX. All three of my friends who have i3's don't pay a penny for service. It's included. And the level of service and attention is well above what you'd get a Chevy dealer.

There's nothing different about the Bolt service-wise over the i3 except if you have the REX which I believe is an oil change once a year. For a three year lease, that's pretty trivial.

 

[sgt1372]

And the level of service and attention is well above what you'd get a Chevy dealer.

The "quality" of the service at BMW dealers is NOT so highly regarded on the BMW forums but, just like my BMW, I do not ever expect to take my Bolt to a dealer for service. So, whether the service you get at BMW is better than at Chevy is irrelevant to me.

 

[boltage]

Secondly, inferior in what way? The interior of the i3 is far better quality than the Bolt IMO. I've spent a lot of time in i3's and I can say hands down it's a better product and far more innovative in a lot of ways other than the battery pack....which frankly is a matter of size and capacity.

Despite all of the lightening of the i3 with carbon fiber, its electricity economy is not so much greater than that of the Bolt (and falls short of the Ioniq) even for the most efficient (but shortest range) version. For 2017 models according to http://www.fueleconomy.gov :

Car             MPGe            Range (miles)   Interior room (ft^3)
i3 BEV (small)  124 (137/111)    81             84/15
i3 BEV (large)  118 (129/106)   114             84/15
i3 REX          111              97             84/15
                 35 (gasoline)   83     
                                180 (total)
Bolt            119 (129/110)   238             95/17
Ioniq electric  136 (150/122)   124             96/23
e-Golf          119 (126/111)   125             91/17

It is pretty hard to make a case for the i3 over the less expensive competitors that have similar or better economy and range with more interior room.

 

[oilerlord]

Despite all of the lightening of the i3 with carbon fiber, its electricity economy is not so much greater than that of the Bolt (and falls short of the Ioniq) even for the most efficient (but shortest range) version. For 2017 models according to http://www.fueleconomy.gov :

Car             MPGe            Range (miles)   Interior room (ft^3)
i3 BEV (small)  124 (137/111)    81             84/15
i3 BEV (large)  118 (129/106)   114             84/15
i3 REX          111              97             84/15
                 35 (gasoline)   83     
                                180 (total)
Bolt            119 (129/110)   238             95/17
Ioniq electric  136 (150/122)   124             96/23
e-Golf          119 (126/111)   125             91/17

Wow, you're right. The Bolt's "electricity economy" is much lower than the Ioniq. 119 MPGe vs 136 for the Ioniq. Thanks for the info.

To Jupe's point (because I think you missed it). An i3 can be leased for less than the Bolt.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Secondly, inferior in what way? The interior of the i3 is far better quality than the Bolt IMO. I've spent a lot of time in i3's and I can say hands down it's a better product and far more innovative in a lot of ways other than the battery pack....which frankly is a matter of size and capacity.

Despite all of the lightening of the i3 with carbon fiber, its electricity economy is not so much greater than that of the Bolt (and falls short of the Ioniq) even for the most efficient (but shortest range) version. For 2017 models according to http://www.fueleconomy.gov :

Car             MPGe            Range (miles)   Interior room (ft^3)
i3 BEV (small)  124 (137/111)    81             84/15
i3 BEV (large)  118 (129/106)   114             84/15
i3 REX          111              97             84/15
                 35 (gasoline)   83     
                                180 (total)
Bolt            119 (129/110)   238             95/17
Ioniq electric  136 (150/122)   124             96/23
e-Golf          119 (126/111)   125             91/17

It is pretty hard to make a case for the i3 over the less expensive competitors that have similar or better economy and range with more interior room.

There's more to a car than sheer efficiency. At these efficiency levels, there's not much difference in them on a daily basis. Out of all the 4 cars there, the BMW is the most unique IMO. I'm no BMW fanboy...I actually am not a BMW guy at all. But I think out of all the Beemers out there, the i3 is the only one worth looking at. And at this point in time, you can also get it for less than a Bolt....I've no idea what the Hyundai would lease for.

 

[boltage]

Wow, you're right. The Bolt's "electricity economy" is much lower than the Ioniq. 119 MPGe vs 136 for the Ioniq. Thanks for the info.

To Jupe's point (because I think you missed it). An i3 can be leased for less than the Bolt.

Well, the Ioniq beats everyone (including the i3) so far.

Regarding the i3, it seems like the main attraction is the low subsidized lease price. Despite all of the tech (e.g. lightweight carbon fiber body), it is not all that attractive a vehicle in terms of economy, interior room, or range compared to the Bolt, Ioniq, or e-Golf. All three have more interior room and conventional rear doors. The Ioniq wins on economy while the Bolt wins on range; the e-Golf is still competitive on both aspects.

 

[oilerlord]

Regarding the i3, it seems like the main attraction is the low subsidized lease price. Despite all of the tech (e.g. lightweight carbon fiber body), it is not all that attractive a vehicle in terms of economy, interior room, or range compared to the Bolt, Ioniq, or e-Golf. All three have more interior room and conventional rear doors. The Ioniq wins on economy while the Bolt wins on range; the e-Golf is still competitive on both aspects.

Just a guess, but the main attraction might be that it's a BMW. I know a couple of BMW fans (my wife being one of them). They don't (typically) swoon over Chevy's and Hyundai's. With that said, our dealership had an i3 available on the used lot. Seeing that small and weird car again reminded me of why we instead went with the Mercedes. The i3 has a polarizing love it or hate it look but those three letters probably go a long way for people loyal to the brand.

 

[sgt1372]

Since we've been talking comparisons between the i3 and the Bolt, here's an interesting article (including the comments) that I just saw tonight:

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/02/21/chevy-bolt-review-bmw-i3-owner-test-drive-review/

If it's already been posted some where in the forum, my apologies in advance for the redundancy.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Despite all of the tech (e.g. lightweight carbon fiber body), it is not all that attractive a vehicle in terms of economy, interior room, or range compared to the Bolt, Ioniq, or e-Golf.

None of these three stats are at the top of the list for buyers of "the ultimate driving machine". What the lightweighting does is give you a very agile EV. One of the best, if not the best, handling EV on the market today. Seems to me that this would matter more to a typical BMW customer.

 

[oilerlord]

None of these three stats are at the top of the list for buyers of "the ultimate driving machine". What the lightweighting does is give you a very agile EV. One of the best, if not the best, handling EV on the market today. Seems to me that this would matter more to a typical BMW customer.

Pretty much sums it up.

BMW's are marketed as "the ultimate driving machine". They are about the driving experience, and cater to an audience that cares about that. The first thing my wife does when she takes a car out on a test drive is find a secluded area off the beaten track - and thrash the hell out of the car around corners to the edge of control to see what the car is capable of.

The i3 is more contradiction than Ultimate Driving Machine. I thought it was "agile" too, and though I haven't driven a Bolt yet, I have no doubt that the i3's rear-wheel drive setup and light weight gives it a clear handling advantage over the Bolt, and most other non-Tesla EV's. Car and Driver said the Bolt understeers "like a puppy on a freshly waxed floor" which is probably accurate. With that said, I think most people buy EV's to tread lightly, and not to thrash them around corners. BMW built the i3 for effiency, not as a racecar. It's agile, sure...but it isn't a 335i.

 

[boltage]

Regarding the i3 as an "ultimate driving machine", seems that the OP thinks that the Bolt handles better than the i3 (page 9 of this thread).

 

[iletric]

I am not a Chevy man either, but i3 is one of the ugliest vehicles I've ever seen. Its look and shape makes no sense at all, so its driving characteristics cannot override its overall unattractivess.

To this day I still cannot believe anyone would have dished out 40 grand+ for the original battery equipped units with 70-80-mile range with or without that Rx fiasco. Now it's finally over the 100-mile threshold, but with Bolt "trumping" its range, it's still a no car, along with Ioniq.

Since 2011 I've been through Leaf, Spark, and Soul, entailing 59 to 96-mile ranges. At this stage of the EV game, for us, it's all about the usable range. Thus Bolt. Anything less renders the vehicles practically useless, unless one's lifestyle is driving to Costco, Starbucks or Safeway and back.

 

[charge]

I am not a Chevy man either, but i3 is one of the ugliest vehicles I've ever seen. Its look and shape makes no sense at all, so its driving characteristics cannot override its overall unattractivess. ..............Since 2011 I've been through Leaf, Spark, and Soul, entailing 59 to 96-mile ranges. At this stage of the EV game, for us, it's all about the usable range. Thus Bolt. Anything less renders the vehicles practically useless, unless one's lifestyle is driving to Costco, Starbucks or Safeway and back.

You drove a Leaf. The Leaf makes the i3 look like Megan Fox by comparison.
The i3 has a very logical layout. The closer to a box you get, the more utility you get. Your Soul you had did that well too.

Of course the range of newer models is very nice. Yet, for its role as a 2nd or 3rd car in a garage, an 80-mile range EV is perfect if bought cheap with all the fed+state subsidies ($15k net for mine brand new).

Also, there isn't much pressure to pay another $1,200 to install a 240v 6.6kw home charger with an older 80-mile range EV (like my Focus EV). I get by on 120v easily. With a Bolt, you're nuts NOT to get a 6.6kw charger installed at home; a must buy, more expense.

 

[sgt1372]

Also, there isn't much pressure to pay another $1,200 to install a 240v 6.6kw home charger with an older 80-mile range EV (like my Focus EV). I get by on 120v easily. With a Bolt, you're nuts NOT to get a 6.6kw charger installed at home; a must buy, more expense.

I don't know about that.

I've been getting by just fine w/the 110v charger cord w/my Bolt but that's because i mainly use it for local driving of only 5-10 miles a day. At that rate, I can go for 2 weeks w/o even thinking about charging it at which time, based on my experience to date, it will completely recharge in about 24 hours (or in 2 nights practically speaking).

Of course, it'll be a lot better if I had an L2 installed in my house and I have plans to do that but have been procrastinating because I'm waiting for my M3 deposit refund to pay for it and I'm making do w/the 110v charger cord.

I also have 9 free L2 Chargepoint chargers located only 3 miles from my house and in a real pinch I can use one of the EvGo DCFC chargers located only a mile away (but I've already vowed NOT to use the EvGo charger again unless absolutely necessary).

In any event, I've got options.

 

[devbolt]

If you have an available 240V outlet in the garage, like an unused dryer or welder outlet, you can easily convert the portable 120V EVSE to use 240V by use of an adapter:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?218442-2016-Volt-120v-EVSE-is-L1-L2-Conversion-Capable

This doubles the charging rate to 2.88 kW.

You can make your own adapter if you are handy, or buy a pre-made one here for around $65:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/384390572/chevy-volt-chevy-bolt-ev-level-2-charge