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Fargoneandout

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
64
Very quick impressions of the Bolt EV after a couple of days of ownership. I am 5'7" and am slight at 150 lbs. 30" waist. My past four cars have been a 2011 BMW 335d, a 2012 BMW 335d Msport, a 2014 Subaru WRX, and a 2014 BMW 328i Msport which I still own. I purchased my Bolt EV LT for under MSRP after placing an order in November. I ordered the vehicle with the false trunk, the DCC fast charge option, Driver Convenience 1 and 2 or whatever they are called. I live in SoCal and drive 7 miles one way to work along 45-60 mph secondary roads with lots of twists, stoplights, and grades, and a short stretch of freeway where speeds are typically 75+ mph. Neither A/C nor heat are usually necessary. I loved the BMWs and the WRX and drove them as they were designed to be driven: fast at launches, fast in the twisties, fast around corners, and fast on the freeways. Before the BMWs and WRX I drove a series of Priuses and even a Honda Fit with the manual, all in search of something easy on fuel. Sadly, while they score high in terms of efficiency, the Prius and Fit are lousy driving cars. Sadly, while they score high in terms of driving dynamics, the BMWs and WRX are lousy in terms of efficiency (to be fair, the 335d's were very efficient for the power they offered but sadly they were highly unreliable, leading to their untimely demise).

With all this in mind I ordered and purchased the Bolt EV in fond hopes of finally finding a car that would be both efficient AND fun. If that is what you are after, then the Bolt EV nails it. Lots of Internet ink has been spilled on stuff I really don't care about so I will only dwell on a few impressions that might aid others and the provide some views on the BMW-versus-Bolt comparison. First, the seats. The seats are fine for me. The bolsters are the kind of bolsters one would expect in something more sporty that econobox which, when I reflected on the thin build of chief engineer (Travel or whatever his name is), makes sense given that he clearly intended to make the car as fun as possible to drive and didn't want people sliding all over the place. There are no hard spots, nothing poking me in the caboose, and while not up to BMW standards, the seats are comfortable enough that they have only drawn my attention when I have wondered why they don't bother me. Next, the tires. Most professional reviews cited the tires as a weakness in terms of driving dynamics. I was so concerned about this in fact that even before I took delivery I ordered a set of replacement summer tires, but after driving around and finding the tires remarkably good, I have come to regret my purchase of the summer tires and may stick with the Michellins.

And what about driving dynamics? Really, really good. Like, remarkably good. I haven't yet had a chance to really try to turn it on its side, but left-right-left agility - I guess this is called turn-in - is much better than I had anticipated, there's no dead spot on the steering rack (does it have one of those??), and it doesn't drift or wallow. It's no BMW, but it is far closer to 'BMW' that I had expected it to be and way better than the vast array of rental cars I drive on business. The steering feel is kind of numb, but it is far more natural feeling than, say, a Prius, and is the superior of the 328i driven in Eco Pro mode and about as good as normal mode. Understeer is palpable during quick cornering but not excessive and on par or superior to other non-sports cars I have driven. My wife's CRV drives like a sack of potatoes compared to the Bolt EV and the reviewers, both professional and amateur, who have praised the Bolt EV's relatively nimble handling and not kidding. Great it isn't, but very, very good it is. Cornering is flat and body roll linear. And what about ride comfort? People who complain about the ride are on crack or their expectations are 'Camry smooth'. The Bolt EV is very composed, with little jostling on uneven pavement, only a tiny bit of secondary bouncing from the rear suspension on washboard bumps, which I expected given the likely need to cut costs and employ a fixed rear transaxle instead of an independent multi-link setup, and a ride that is in many respects as comfortable as my BMWs. It feels different and I can't for the life of my figure out what it is about the Bolt's ride that is different, but it is just different and not unpleasantly so. I feel like there are zero compromises in terms of handling and ride comfort.

And what about acceleration? Well here is where I will take some small issue. It's good mind you, but those expecting a pocket rocket will be disappointed. I guess I was so pleasantly surprised with how the Bolt EV handles and rides that it was kind of a letdown that the Bolt EV only met but did not exceed my expectations in terms of power delivery. The Bolt EV is quick, particularly from 0-40 but it is not fast by any means. Driving my usual commute I was easily able to get out front of everyone when first at the lights, but the lack of aural feedback during acceleration and the vague feeling of the throttle made it feel less quick that it probably is. Some of this may be attributed to the difference in power delivery dynamics between FWD and RWD setups, a difference I noted during repeated test drives of the Mk7 GTI, a car with which the Bolt EV shares a great deal of similarity in the power and acceleration department. I haven't had time yet to learn to extract maximal power and will report back when I have done so, which I will. One note - I can't tell the difference between Sport and normal mode under non-launch conditions but I was pleased to learn that the Bolt EV can be driven in both Sport and "L" regeneration mode.

Some other random likes? Sight lines are terrific, aided by a high seating position, amazing windscreen, and large front and rear windows. Rear seating is capacious for a car in this class and my kids LOVE sitting higher than the me as they can see better. I personally like the two displays - very clear with large letters. I will probably come to miss the iDrive setup in the BMW, with its simple rotate and press knob, but then again the BMW doesn't support CarPlay or Siri and the BMW Office suite of tools is crap. The backup camera is fantastic, giving clear and wide angle visibility, predictive drive path lines while reversing, and amazing screen - way better than the F30 BMW. I had expected the sound system in the LT to be junk, but it's actually pretty darn good and again on par with the BMW. The bass is a bit "boomy", but golly am I glad I didn't spring for the Bose. I love the fact that ground clearance is high enough to not have to worry about scraping the front fascia on those white concrete parking bumpers. I measured the F30 BMW 328i Msport clearance up front to be 5.5 inches and the Bolt EV's at 7.5 inches. As for the interior, lots of folks have whined - yes whined - about the chintzy interior. Baloney. If you like stroking your dash, buy a GTI - those guys looooove their dashes. Sure it has some hard plastic, but its far, far better than the bag-of-Chinese-made-army-figurines that it has been portrayed to be. I was saddened during my buying process by all the negative feedback about the door armrests, expecting them to be quartz like in their hardness. Not true. They are not pillow top soft, but they are soft enough and NOT hard plastic. Finally, the Bolt EV is amazingly quiet both in routine urban driving and on the highway. It's kind of eerie actually zipping along with no noise to speak of or at least less than I have ever been accoustomed to. Quieter than any of my BMW's that's for sure.

Some random things that are not bad, a priori, but will take some getting used to? The side view mirrors seemed to be placed right around the level of my navel when driving, a natural consequence of a low window line. I keep looking about a foot higher and then go, "Oh - there they are." The climate controls are kinda weird, with hard buttons for a few things and a screen for the rest, but that is just a driver's ed issue and not an irredeemable flaw. I get the vibe that the brake lights come on pretty quickly during the regeneration and braking cycle in L mode, since I noticed drivers behind me yo-yo'ing in stop and go traffic. All the same if that keeps me from getting rear-ended for like the fourth time, I guess that's a feature not a bug. While I like the Bolt's ground clearance, I remain incapable as yet of figuring out how short this darn thing is and it has my car proprioreception all bamboozled. I eased it into my garage a couple of times at the speed of snail only to slam on the brakes, park, and find myself with a couple of feet more room before plowing into the wall.

Stuff I just don't like at all? Well the one thing that already has me thinking 'workaround' is the annoying feature that has Sirius XM come on by default when the audio system was on the last time the Bolt EV was turned off. Now dont' get me wrong - I like Sirius as much as the next denizen of the GM world - but the guy or gal responsible for this little "feature" should be offered a smoke, blindfolded, and then be forced to listed to Sirius Channel 1 until they go insane. Oh, and they could have spent a couple of bucks more and printed the Owners Manual on a grade of paper superior to Indian tablet paper, which must have been in long supply over there in Michigan. Other than that, I have little with which to take issue, which is in itself remarkable given that I normally consider myself to have exacting standards.

Am I delighted with the Bolt EV? Yup. Will it prove to be an adequate replacement for my past sporty rides? Yes. The Bolt EV is nimble, quiet, and quick while offering surprisingly over-achieving driving dynamics that place it far about mere grocery getters. I would rate it the clear superior of the GTI and, say, the BMW 320i with standard suspension setup, and the slight inferior of the BMW 328i Msport in terms of handling and comfort and clear inferior in terms of power delivery. All the same, the Bolt EV is every bit the remarkable achievement it has been made out to be in terms of being a terrifically driving small car - even a hot hatch if you like to use those words - while at the same time offering a currently unparalleled combination of effiency and price point. No kidding. I own one.
 
SeanNelson said:
Nice writeup, thanks - and enjoy your new acquisition!

Thanks, SeanNelson, I will indeed enjoy it. And I report back periodically from the land of spirited driving, particularly if I do end up deciding to test out those summer tires.
 
Curious that as a "BMW man", and a fan of performance, you made no mention of the i3. As driving dynamics seem to be important to you, the i3 is the quickest, best handling EV I've driven short of a Model S. It also weighs 600 pounds less than the Bolt.
 
Fargoneandout said:
Very quick impressions.....

I have a 2014 Spark EV. I've gone up against a few very quick (well considered quick) cars and have kept my own in them.

I've learned how to drive the car so it can stay with and in some cases edge ahead. The key is to apply throttle somewhat gradually and not suddenly. What kills my Spark's performance are two things 1) Lack of grip and 2) extremely intrusive traction control.

That's why I can keep up with and edge out cars on rolling starts or situations versus off the line. Yes, it's contradictory to what an EV should be able to do but it's not the EV that's the issue it's the setup.

I've shocked multiple 328i drives, GTI drivers, a few 335i drivers, etc...people don't believe me until they are sitting next to me and they see it happen.

From what you are saying, I would be disappointed too as I'd expect the Bolt to be quicker than the Spark EV...because on paper it seems to be both in mid-range and 0-60 accelerations. Could it be that it's so linear and smooth that it's deceivingly quick?
 
oilerlord said:
Curious that as a "BMW man", and a fan of performance, you made no mention of the i3. As driving dynamics seem to be important to you, the i3 is the quickest, best handling EV I've driven short of a Model S. It also weighs 600 pounds less than the Bolt.

According to acceleration tests the Bolt is as quick if not quicker than the i3...which is confusing as it doesn't "seem" as quick as a Spark EV.
 
Thank you for sharing this review. You have put a lot of my concerns to rest! I'm in the camp where I want a sporty "hot hatch" type car. But I need it to bring a family of 4, and I need it to be 100% electric. Thanks to my 5 years with a Leaf, I will never go back to gas. But having traded way down in performance from an S2000, I long for something sportier.

As one familiar with a proper RWD performance car, how do you find the torque steer? If I'm not mistaken, the GTI is FWD too. How do the two compare?
 
GetOffYourGas said:
Thank you for sharing this review. You have put a lot of my concerns to rest! I'm in the camp where I want a sporty "hot hatch" type car. But I need it to bring a family of 4, and I need it to be 100% electric. Thanks to my 5 years with a Leaf, I will never go back to gas. But having traded way down in performance from an S2000, I long for something sportier.

The sportier "hot hatch" feel appears to be the intent of the Bolt's chief engineer:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a31929/chevy-bolt-lead-engineer-gearhead/
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2016/12/10/payne-qauto-chevy-bolt-evs-chief-speed-freak/95259830/

Obviously, this comes through in the handling, firm (but not uncomfortable) ride, and sportier front seats (though, as you can see from the seat complaint thread, not everyone likes them). There is also plenty of room for four inside.

I like it that way, but it seems that some people prefer less sporty suspension tuning (softer) and seats (smaller softer bolsters, presumably like the optional less sporty "luxury seats" that BMW offers).
 
JupiterMoon said:
According to acceleration tests the Bolt is as quick if not quicker than the i3...which is confusing as it doesn't "seem" as quick as a Spark EV.

Torque does that. It makes a car "seem" quicker than it is.

To me, there's a lot more to driving dynamics than 0-60 times. The i3 is a comparatively light, rear-wheel drive vehicle. Along with it's rear-weight bias, I found the car surprisingly nimble, steering fantastic, and despite it's skinny front tires, wasn't prone to plowing through corners like other front wheel drive EV's I drove. Performance wise, only the Model S was more impressive to me. I would have bought it but at the time, my budget for a used EV was $25K, and all the i3's I was looking at were $35K+. One year later, used i3's are selling in the mid $20's. We're taking another look as my wife is truly is a "BMW girl", and loves her 330 but she's now looking for something to replace it. No surprise, she wants another BMW. We were both impressed with the i3, and still are.

The title of the thread is somewhat of a red herring. It tricked me, (and probably others) into reading it. I would have assumed that a "BMW man" (i.e. person loyal to the brand) would have discussed their reasons why the Bolt won their heart away from an i3. What I thought was going to be a very interesting, thought provoking BMW i3 vs Chevy Bolt thread - didn't turn out that way.
 
oilerlord said:
JupiterMoon said:
According to acceleration tests the Bolt is as quick if not quicker than the i3...which is confusing as it doesn't "seem" as quick as a Spark EV.

Torque does that. It makes a car "seem" quicker than it is.

To me, there's a lot more to driving dynamics than 0-60 times. The i3 is a comparatively light, rear-wheel drive vehicle. Along with it's rear-weight bias, I found the car surprisingly nimble, steering fantastic, and despite it's skinny front tires, wasn't prone to plowing through corners like other front wheel drive EV's I drove. Performance wise, only the Model S was more impressive to me. I would have bought it but at the time, my budget for a used EV was $25K, and all the i3's I was looking at were $35K+. One year later, used i3's are selling in the mid $20's. We're taking another look as my wife is truly is a "BMW girl", and loves her 330 but she's now looking for something to replace it. No surprise, she wants another BMW. We were both impressed with the i3, and still are.

The title of the thread is somewhat of a red herring. It tricked me, (and probably others) into reading it. I would have assumed that a "BMW man" (i.e. person loyal to the brand) would have discussed their reasons why the Bolt won their heart away from an i3. What I thought was going to be a very interesting, thought provoking BMW i3 vs Chevy Bolt thread - didn't turn out that way.

Well it's not just torque...it's also what I've experienced performance-wise. Like I said, on paper it's a different story...in real life I've experienced differently. But I agree with you about the i3's inherent advantages.
 
JupiterMoon said:
Well it's not just torque...it's also what I've experienced performance-wise. Like I said, on paper it's a different story...in real life I've experienced differently. But I agree with you about the i3's inherent advantages.

With performance rubber, your Spark (and it's 400 lb-ft of torque) can probably beat most cars off the line to 30 mph but it's the relative lack of horsepower (140) that holds it back from being a 5 second car. It runs out of gas (so to speak) after 40 mph. That said, the Spark EV is a rocket, and if not for it's small cargo space, would have been in my garage.
 
The Spark EV is indeed a good little bucket, but 52 miles of range in the winter (using heat) is too limiting. Got a Bolt build date week of 2/13...
 
oilerlord said:
JupiterMoon said:
Well it's not just torque...it's also what I've experienced performance-wise. Like I said, on paper it's a different story...in real life I've experienced differently. But I agree with you about the i3's inherent advantages.

With performance rubber, your Spark (and it's 400 lb-ft of torque) can probably beat most cars off the line to 30 mph but it's the relative lack of horsepower (140) that holds it back from being a 5 second car. It runs out of gas (so to speak) after 40 mph. That said, the Spark EV is a rocket, and if not for it's small cargo space, would have been in my garage.

No Oiler that's where I disagree about the Spark's performance....it has utterly lousy off-the-line performance and I have a very decent set of rubber on it now as I changed out the front tires some time back. This thing has incredible mid-range and definitely does not run out of steam at 40. It pulls like a freight train well past 60 and all the way to top speed. My experience has been very different and I've owned the car for three years now and have figured out how to squeeze the best acceleration out of this car. The traction control is so aggressive on this thing that it completely destroys its off-line-performance. This thing would easily smoke a GTI well past 60 if it was RWD and easily kept up with GTI's in mid-range no problem at all.

I'll be sad to see this thing go but I do need something bigger as well.
 
oilerlord said:
Curious that as a "BMW man", and a fan of performance, you made no mention of the i3. As driving dynamics seem to be important to you, the i3 is the quickest, best handling EV I've driven short of a Model S. It also weighs 600 pounds less than the Bolt.

An encounter with an i3 is the root cause of my decision to buy the Bolt EV. I launched at a stoplight one day with an i3 in the adjacent lane and that I3 kept up pretty well until we hit 60. I did not consider the i3 for a couple of reasons: (1) I find it to be among the least attractive vehicles every made; (2) It has poor range; (3) it is by test slower 0-60 than the Bolt; (4) the i3 is relatively expensive to purchase and I refuse to lease; (5) a friend who has one gave me a ride and I wasn't jazzed with the ride.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
Thank you for sharing this review. You have put a lot of my concerns to rest! I'm in the camp where I want a sporty "hot hatch" type car. But I need it to bring a family of 4, and I need it to be 100% electric. Thanks to my 5 years with a Leaf, I will never go back to gas. But having traded way down in performance from an S2000, I long for something sportier.

As one familiar with a proper RWD performance car, how do you find the torque steer? If I'm not mistaken, the GTI is FWD too. How do the two compare?

I haven't had a chance to really wring it out in the corners yet so I cannot say what heavy throttle application in a corner will do. I suspect that there will be torque steer. In this phase of the EV design cycle the only RWD or AWD options are I think the Tesla S and the i8. That S2000 is a sweeeeeeeet ride. Having driven one I can say that the Bolt won't touch it in terms of driving dynamics but not much will short of the Miata. But the Bolt isn't going to punish you either and will be an upgrade on the Leaf. Full disclosure - I have not driven a Leaf.
 
oilerlord said:
JupiterMoon said:
According to acceleration tests the Bolt is as quick if not quicker than the i3...which is confusing as it doesn't "seem" as quick as a Spark EV.

Torque does that. It makes a car "seem" quicker than it is.

To me, there's a lot more to driving dynamics than 0-60 times. The i3 is a comparatively light, rear-wheel drive vehicle. Along with it's rear-weight bias, I found the car surprisingly nimble, steering fantastic, and despite it's skinny front tires, wasn't prone to plowing through corners like other front wheel drive EV's I drove. Performance wise, only the Model S was more impressive to me. I would have bought it but at the time, my budget for a used EV was $25K, and all the i3's I was looking at were $35K+. One year later, used i3's are selling in the mid $20's. We're taking another look as my wife is truly is a "BMW girl", and loves her 330 but she's now looking for something to replace it. No surprise, she wants another BMW. We were both impressed with the i3, and still are.

The title of the thread is somewhat of a red herring. It tricked me, (and probably others) into reading it. I would have assumed that a "BMW man" (i.e. person loyal to the brand) would have discussed their reasons why the Bolt won their heart away from an i3. What I thought was going to be a very interesting, thought provoking BMW i3 vs Chevy Bolt thread - didn't turn out that way.

LOL. I guess I should've seen that coming - the i3 man goes Bolt. All the same, none of the professional reviews have had much love for the i3 and there has been a paucity of coverage of the i3 versus Bolt, with most of the ink, this time both amateur and professional, focused on the Telsa S versus Bolt. I don't want to rip a car I have not driven and can only offer my views, where we're not intended to red herring.
 
oilerlord said:
Fargoneandout said:
All the same, none of the professional reviews have had much love for the i3.

You are kidding, right?


Actually I wasn't kidding. I haven't seen a review of the i3 in the last six months that claimed it was better of the Bolt but many taking exactly the opposite view that the Bolt is superior. Now some guys swear by Camaro's and wouldn't be caught dead driving a Mustang and some guys swear by Mustangs and wouldn't be caught dead driving a Camaro, so there is considerable room for personal judgement here. But I'd be very surprised indeed if the i3 drove better than my 328i Msport and as I have stated here as OP, the Bolt EV is not far off of the 328i Msport in terms of handling dynamics. Less quick on turn-in and more easily unsettled on rapid movements (I have been playing) but actually a more supple ride.

At the risk of just picking something I saw today I'll quote Aaron from the Thrillist,

"You might think that the Bolt EV is meant to be a docile, mostly forgettable, environmentally friendly vehicle, but you'd be sorely mistaken on the first two points. The chief engineer is a racer at heart, and he spends his spare time fine-tuning the suspension on both of his own race cars. This personal passion permeates to the road, where the Bolt is a surprisingly agile car, and one that retains a supple ride, absorbing bumps and maintaining a composure that would make most BMWs blush."

https://www.thrillist.com/cars/nation/chevy-bolt-ev-2017-review

A little dish of puff pastry? Yeah, probably, but very much in line with commonly held views. But I gotta do more than ride in an i3 so I'll take the 328i down to the local BMW dealer and give an i3 a drive for myself. The i3 sure didn't feel nearly as good as the Bolt from the passenger seat but who knows, it might be terrific behind the wheel.
 
What the F is the "thrillist"? Are you seriously putting an obscure food & wine site in the category of "professional car reviews"? Heard of Car & Driver? This is how they described the Bolt's handling:

"The lateral-grip limits are similarly modest, with excess speed in slower corners causing the Bolt to understeer like a puppy on a freshly waxed floor. "

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/chevrolet-bolt-2017-10best-cars-feature

I'm not at all saying the Bolt isn't a good car. The Bolt won Car & Driver's 10 best award, but only because it was the only car in it's category that was reviewed. Tesla didn't provide a car.

A comparison between an i3 and a Bolt is apples & oranges. One is an upscale, lightweight, carbon-fiber performance / luxury car, the other is an economy car. The Model S is generally compared with the Bolt because it's currently the only other 200 mile BEV on the market.

You haven't driven an i3, but you've written it off before you've been behind the wheel. Your claim of being a "BMW man" isn't credible.
 
oilerlord said:
What the F is the "thrillist"? Are you seriously putting an obscure food & wine site in the category of "professional car reviews"? Heard of Car & Driver? This is how they described the Bolt's handling:

"The lateral-grip limits are similarly modest, with excess speed in slower corners causing the Bolt to understeer like a puppy on a freshly waxed floor. "

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/chevrolet-bolt-2017-10best-cars-feature

I'm not at all saying the Bolt isn't a good car. The Bolt won Car & Driver's 10 best award, but only because it was the only car in it's category that was reviewed. Tesla didn't provide a car.

A comparison between an i3 and a Bolt is apples & oranges. One is an upscale, lightweight, carbon-fiber performance / luxury car, the other is an economy car. The Model S is generally compared with the Bolt because it's currently the only other 200 mile BEV on the market.

You haven't driven an i3, but you've written it off before you've been behind the wheel. Your claim of being a "BMW man" isn't credible.

I have to agree. The main reason why the Bolt is getting the accolades is PURELY due to the range. Not much else. It's not ground breaking in any other way. That's all people see. The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to the realization that I simply cannot justify paying close to or in excess of $500/month for an economy car that's a long range EV. My next car is going to be an EV no matter what. But paying through the nose is a bit ridiculous.
 
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