Amazing low cost to run an EV

[Tarrngtn]

I just got my household electricity bill for the first full month of charging my Bolt with AeroEnvironment level 2 charger in my garage on top of the usual electrical usage. It is about $5 or $6 more than usual. We drove about 800 miles during the month all in city, rarely above 50 MPH. Now it is hard to figure out how much of the total is for the car. We have solar panels on the roof of our home. Sunshine and home usage will vary with ambient temperature and cloud cover. But looking at the previous three years, I don't think I am far off. But usage over a longer period of time would be more accurate.

Could others with more experience indicate how much they are paying (or KWh used) for their Bolts? I can't believe it is this cheap. And, if so, an EV is worth the price even without the federal $7,500 subsidy, which I understand the Republicans want to repeal.

 

[PackardV8]

duplicate

 

[PackardV8]

And, if so, an EV is worth the price even without the federal $7,500 subsidy,

We love our Bolt, but let's not give the ICE guys reason to doubt our logic. Just for the sake of discussion, assume one owns a paid-for ICE. 800 miles in that 30 MPG ICE using $3 gasoline would be $80 a month. If your electricity cost was $5 a month, that's $75 a month savings. A $43,000 EV would pay for itself in forty-eight years?

That's admittedly an oversimplification, but we bought a Bolt despite being unable to find any bottom line economic justification for it. When we're discussing it with those who don't know EVs, they may know math.

jack vines

 

[Tarrngtn]

Right. We didn't buy for economics either, but for environmental reasons. But the differences between an ICE and an EV is not $43,000. So a better comparison is buying a comparably equipped ICE versus the Bolt. $10,000? 15,000? So the payoff is shorter. If some prognosticators about climate change are right, the price of gas may soon be much higher. Maybe not enough to justify on economics alone, but who cares? The car is great and we run ours on solar power. So we feel virtuous. It's an adventure.

 

[PackardV8]

But the differences between an ICE and an EV is not $43,000. So a better comparison is buying a comparably equipped ICE versus the Bolt. $10,000? 15,000?

Agree. Projections/spreadsheets always begin with one or more assumptions. In our case, we have two paid-for ICEs in the garage. We didn't need another vehicle, so the cost/benefit had to be figured at full list. As with most new vehicle purchases, it was a case of wanting something new and different and more appropriate to our current usage. (A nephew who's been in the retail car business for thirty years said, "We depend on want-it. If people only bought have-to, we'd starve.")

If a buyer has no current-vehicle-his-was-totalled-in-an-accident, then the math assumptions are different. But then a new Bolt still wouldn't pencil out. A one-or-two-year-old Cruze Eco would still be more economical.

As we said before, the Bolt has many reasons to own besides the bottom line.

jack vines

 

[Chargeit]

Two things: first are the environmental benefits, better air quality, reduced asthma, etc. You also have to factor in downtime and expense for maintenance you don't have to deal with when you buy an EV.

Finally, about the Federal tax credit, how much have we paid in taxes to subsidize the oil industry? Since the first Gulf war, how many trillions of dollars and thousands of lives have we paid to stabilize the Middle East oil supply. Had we taken a hundredth of that amount and invested in alternative energy back in the '90s, EVs would be far less expensive and our current mobility would come without so much blood on the tires.

 

[PackardV8]

You also have to factor in downtime and expense for maintenance you don't have to deal with when you buy an EV.

Thus far, in the short run, this may be correct, but there's not a large enough sample to state conclusively. We've only had a couple of reports of Bolts going home on the hook. Even electrically powered, our EVs are still mechanical contraptions.

Then, there's the long term. Over the past sixty years of ICE ownership, I've driven several for 15-20 years and 150,000 miles. How's our EV downtime and maintenance cost going to look in that timeframe?

jack vines

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I just got my household electricity bill for the first full month of charging my Bolt with AeroEnvironment level 2 charger in my garage on top of the usual electrical usage. It is about $5 or $6 more than usual. We drove about 800 miles during the month all in city, rarely above 50 MPH. Now it is hard to figure out how much of the total is for the car. We have solar panels on the roof of our home. Sunshine and home usage will vary with ambient temperature and cloud cover. But looking at the previous three years, I don't think I am far off. But usage over a longer period of time would be more accurate.

Could others with more experience indicate how much they are paying (or KWh used) for their Bolts? I can't believe it is this cheap. And, if so, an EV is worth the price even without the federal $7,500 subsidy, which I understand the Republicans want to repeal.

I pay about $0.12/kWh. After charging losses, my driving efficiency is about 4 miles/kWh (higher in the summer, lower in the winter). So it costs me about $0.03 in electricity to drive a mile. For 800 miles, this is $24. Pretty good, but nowhere near your $5-$6 estimate. Either you are paying much less for electricity, or other variations partially compensated for your EV's extra usage.

 

[SeanNelson]

Then, there's the long term. Over the past sixty years of ICE ownership, I've driven several for 15-20 years and 150,000 miles. How's our EV downtime and maintenance cost going to look in that timeframe?

We have the Prius to look to for some idea of how this could play out. Priuses have largely taken over the taxi industry because of their reliability and low operational cost. And Consumer Reports found that a 10 year old Prius with 200,000 miles, original battery and engine performed essentially identically to the same model that they had tested when it was new.

 

[Tarrngtn]

That $24 for 800 miles sounds more reasonable to me. I suspect the other changes I can't adjust for counts for the difference. Thanks for answering the question. Anybody else with longer term experience who can indicate what I should expect? I won't actually know because the solar panels will pay it all, but I would like to kind of know what I am "saving" in some sense. Usually I paid $40 to $60 a month for gas before getting the Bolt, and will still drive the 2005 CRV on occasion just to keep it in operating condition for that very rare occasion when we need two cars at the same time.

 

[SmokingRubber]

I bought mine for economical reasons.

I was commuting in my 2013 FJ Cruiser (paid for) and getting about 16mpg. At $3 a gallon (it's currently $3.25), I was paying $0.1875 per mile. My commute is about 25 miles each way... so I averaged 1,125 miles a month or $210 a month in gas. I actually drove more than that and paid more than that for gas each month, but for the sake of easy math I'll stick to my baseline commuting numbers since I bought the Bolt to be my daily commuter. I still drive the FJ a little.

I don't pay to charge my Bolt. Right now I charge it at Lowes while I'm at work or I walk a mile to the hospital by my house and plug it in there sometimes. I just ordered a Lvl2 charger and my boss is going to install a 240v outlet near the back door. By Christmas I'll be able to plug in here at work every day for free.

So the car payment had to be in the $210 a month neighborhood. My car payment is $369 but I'm getting $2500 back from Uncle Sammy so my payment is really $300 a month. That's close, since I really spent more than $210 a month on gas. The free electricity really pushes it over the top.

It's basically a wash imo. I'm spending money on the car payment instead of at the gas station. I'm not putting miles on my FJ and I'm driving a MUCH more technologically advanced and safe vehicle. With insurance, I'm actually paying $100 more a month than I was. Worth it considering the environmental benefits.

 

[BoltyMcBoltFace]

That $24 for 800 miles sounds more reasonable to me. I suspect the other changes I can't adjust for counts for the difference. Thanks for answering the question. Anybody else with longer term experience who can indicate what I should expect? I won't actually know because the Solar Panels will pay it all, but I would like to kind of know what I am "saving" in some sense. Usually I paid $40 to $60 a month for gas before getting the Bolt, and will still drive the 2005 CRV on occasion just to keep it in operating condition for that very rare occasion when we need two cars at the same time.

What kind of electric plan are you on? If it's a time of use plan, you may be using more in the off-peak hours while still generating just as much during peak hours and playing those rates against each other, so it's entirely possible that you might wind up with that small of a difference in your bill, but month-to-month variation in production and usage in other areas is a more likely explanation.

There are some months I actually come out better because I have the car. On my SCE net-metering time of use plan, if I generate more than I use I get a $10 minimum bill, but if I use more than I generate I pay for the usage, even if it's only 10 cents. I've been in that sweet spot of paying less than $10 several times, and I wouldn't have been there without the car. If I really paid attention, I'd look at my SCE account a few days before the end of the billing cycle and decide whether to charge or not based on whether it would save me from the minimum bill.

 

[Tarrngtn]

We have net metering, but not time of day pricing. As long as we generate more Kw from our panels than we use (now including the car) they pay us a little every few months. In the past we have received about $100 a year from the power company (PNM) in addition to "free" electricity for our home. Once five additional panels are installed, we should be able to cover the car and continue to come out a little ahead. Whether this makes up for the cost of the panels is a difficult financial question. Pay back for our original solar installation came out as seven or eight years assuming our traditional electric usage.

 

[BoltMaybe]

When calculating EV electricity costs there are a couple of important things to note:

1. The kW consumption displayed in the car is not the same as what you pumped into the car. This is b/c of AC to DC conversion and heat losses pumping electrons into the battery. True kWh charging consumption is best determined using an actual meter reading. When I installed my EVSE, I put a meter behind it for just this reason.
2. Energy cost is not the $/kWh on your bill. Every utility adds on taxes and connection charges which, depending on how much electricity you consume, can add anywhere from 2-5cents per kWh. For your actual cost per kWh you should divide your monthly bill total by your kWh used.

Using these two important factors (meter reading and actual $/kWh) I get the true monthly usage cost of my EV which is usually higher than what I see on most forums, but still around 30-40% less than my Prius 7yrs ago. Because EVs have nearly zero maintenance, total cost of ownership (TCO) becomes the differentiator. Even though I rarely replaced the brakepads in my Prius (regen save the brakes), oil changes and other ICE maintenance added up quickly. Both my LEAF and Mercedes killed my Prius on TCO. But gas was also more expensive then, so I'm not sure where things fall now.

I just got my Bolt yesterday so I'll have some numbers for this thread next month.

 

[Anonymous]

Just got our first electric bill since having our 240v electric installed and our EVSE hooked up. It's also the first bill since we switched to hourly billing ... when calculating overall cost per kWh including taxes and fees and such, we're paying $0.1077 per kWh, which if I'm doing the math correctly means that compared to the 24 mpg my wife was getting in her previous vehicle, we're paying about 4 times less per month to power the Bolt.

$0.1077 / 4 (mi per kWh) = $0.027 per mile
$2.45 per gallon / 24 mpg = $0.102 per mile

So for 2000 miles per month that's $204 for gas, $54 for electricity. Of course, that's a simplistic comparison ... I also had to have an electrician come in and wire up the 240v outlet in the garage ($1100) plus buy the EVSE ($599) ... those will take some time to recoup (about a year based upon the "fuel" savings). But then you also have to figure in that there are no more oil changes needed, etc. In the end we bought the Bolt because we felt like it's the right thing to do for the environment and it's the future of vehicles.

 

[ArthurL]

7.5 cents a kWh in BC. We have a free level 3 in town so I generally recharge there at about 30% and go up to 80%. If going on a trip where I’ll recharge on the road I’ll top off at home first on my level 2 before leaving. We can check our cost per hour and its always about $1.25 for the extra juice. Love my Bolt.

 

[rklisch]

I have a different calculation. I drive about 15K/yr. I have a heat pump on my house so the utility put on a 1/2 price meter and said to put other loads on it. So I pay 3.5 cents/KW. So at 4.5 miles/KW it costs me .77 cents per mile. Or $116/yr. With $3.00 gas that would be about $1800 (considering a 25m/gal car). Savings is say $1684/yr. That is 16.84K in 10 years or the vehicle could pay for itself in 20 years, considering the federal credit, and if gas stays at $3.00).

 

[PackardV8]

Any spread sheet begins with assumptions. Assuming a not-generally-available low cost of electricity is one way. But just for the sake of discussion calculate the payback for the owner who always charges at free-off-site stations; his "Amazing low cost to run an EV" is zero.

jack vines

 

[iletric]

I pay about $0.12/kWh.

Do yourself and us a favor: take your gas/electric bill, deduct the gas portion, then divide the remaining $ number by the kWh you used. Then post the number in cents.

My bet is 19 cents.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I pay about $0.12/kWh.

Do yourself and us a favor: take your gas/electric bill, deduct the gas portion, then divide the remaining $ number by the kWh you used. Then post the number in cents.

My bet is 19 cents.

Um, ok. I have been tracking my electric cost in a spreadsheet since I installed solar panels in 2011. I am an engineer, I understand numbers. Here is my method:

1) Take the electrical portion of the bill (broken out separately from gas)
2) Subtract the $17/mo connection fee (flat fee, doesn't change regardless of my consumption) so that I'm calculating incremental cost per kWh.
3) Divide the result by the number of kWh I bought that month (my panels have only ever covered a portion of my usage)

It varies a little every month. Here's what I got for the past 12 months:
12/16 = $0.106/kWh
1/17 = $0.119/kWh
2/17 = $0.126/kWh
3/17 = $0.106/kWh
4/17 = $0.115/kWh
5/17 = $0.133/kWh
6/17 = $0.120/kWh
7/17 = $0.125/kWh
8/17 = $0.125/kWh
9/17 = $0.126/kWh
10/17 = $0.125/kWh
11/17 = $0.120/kWh

Unweighted average = $0.1205/kWh

So yeah. I pay about $0.12/kWh.