A Car Dealers Won’t Sell: It’s Electric

[Tallon]

Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/01/science/electric-car-auto-dealers.html?smid=re-share

 

[Zoomit]

Worth the read--thanks for posting.

Having to set foot in a Chevy dealer (again) is the biggest barrier for me getting a Bolt.

 

[michael]

I see you're in socal. Go to Keyes Chevy in Van Nuys and talk to Rick the general manager. He sells tons of Volts and I'm sure he will sell tons of Bolts. Rydell in Northridge is also good.

Keyes sells Volts aggressively because they are smart enough to understand that it's a unique car and brings in people who would not otherwise have considered Chevrolet. I have bought two Volts from them, and friends have bought a half dozen more. Without exception, Rick sold them Volts, at a good price, and without ever attempting to sway them into a different model. I'm sure Keyes hopes they will return for another car or truck in the future, possibly a truck, SUV, Corvette or whatever, but they absolutely did not try to redirect the Volt purchase.

Just to be fair, Sunrise Ford in North Hollywood was also very good. I went in asking about a Focus Electric, and they sold me exactly that, never attempting to redirect, and they made me a good price.

I know there are some sleazy dealers, but there are also good ones.

Ha...I hope one of the places I recommended wasn't bad to you....

 

[Zoomit]

I'm north of those dealers. My dealer was ok, given my very low expectations, but even a great dealer is still a car dealer.

I'd rather cut out the middleman and buy from a company that is motivated to make a product that doesn't need frequent service. (Only one comes to mind.)

 

[Anonymous]

I'm north of those dealers. My dealer was ok, given my very low expectations, but even a great dealer is still a car dealer.

I'd rather cut out the middleman and buy from a company that is motivated to make a product that doesn't need frequent service. (Only one comes to mind.)

Use one of the online buying services (https://amexnetwork.truecar.com/main.html, costco, samsclub, or an employee discount program with your employer). You go online and get a price and take that to the dealer. I just tried the Volt in 90064 and prices come in at 7.5% below msrp. You get a good price and you cut out all the negotiation steps. With the Bolt being brand new you're going to have a hard time doing any negotiation for the first few months.

 

[michael]

That's good advice on both counts, in my opinion.

I get the Costco or Auto Club price, and that's the absolute maximum to pay, since it's a pre-negotiated done deal. On EVs (Focus electric and Volt) I've been able to do even better once dealing with the sales manager at the dealer.

And yes, I really, really want a Bolt, but I will hold off until the initial buying flurry dies down. There are a certain number of us who appreciate the benefits of an EV, but most people haven't figured it out yet. I think Chevy will have a harder time moving the Bolt than the Volt.

I generally tell people that unless the size is an issue (formerly 4 seats, now 4 1/2 seats...) a Volt will work for almost anybody. This is less true for a Bolt.

 

[klaus]

Agreed that it won't work at first when the demand is way higher than availability, but a great strategy to use on the Bolt EV once the waters calm a little bit!

 

[Anonymous]

I was recently at my local Chevy dealer for a recall. While there I asked the sales manager if they would be carrying the Bolt. Felt like I was lucky to get out of there alive. He explained in no uncertain terms that the cost of the test/diagnostic equipment to service the Bolt was prohibitive ($20K) and that they would have to sell at least 400 a year to make it worthwhile. Not going to happen in WV, at least not until they come up with an EV pickup.

 

[elpwr]

I'm north of those dealers. My dealer was ok, given my very low expectations, but even a great dealer is still a car dealer.

I'd rather cut out the middleman and buy from a company that is motivated to make a product that doesn't need frequent service. (Only one comes to mind.)

You better hope the "one that comes to mind" drastically improves its service facilities. Waits of 3-4 weeks for service are common in CA; and even the first appointment to service my Model S in Fl was 12 days out.

A Chevroket customer would be livid if told their car couldn't be serviced for a month.

 

[Zoomit]

Sure Tesla has a long way to go, both in product quality and service availability, but I never want to go to a service center. Chevrolet dealers are fundamentally motivated to have me come back for service. Tesla and their SCs are motivated to make a product and provide service such that I never need to come back.

 

[ssspinball]

I was recently at my local Chevy dealer for a recall. While there I asked the sales manager if they would be carrying the Bolt. Felt like I was lucky to get out of there alive. He explained in no uncertain terms that the cost of the test/diagnostic equipment to service the Bolt was prohibitive ($20K) and that they would have to sell at least 400 a year to make it worthwhile. Not going to happen in WV, at least not until they come up with an EV pickup.

Dang! Chevy touts their numerous third-party dealers as pro on their side vs Tesla. If this anecdote is true where dealers just opt-out of the Bolt entirely, then it sounds like it's not really an advantage at all. I guess we'll see!

 

[DarrenDonovan]

I'm north of those dealers. My dealer was ok, given my very low expectations, but even a great dealer is still a car dealer.

I'd rather cut out the middleman and buy from a company that is motivated to make a product that doesn't need frequent service. (Only one comes to mind.)

This is funny. I'm pretty sure you're talking about Tesla. The name Tesla and the phrase "doesn't need frequent service" certainly don't go together. There are a fair number of MS and MX owners who have had to go to the service centers, repeatedly. Initial QC is not that good. My 2013 Volt, 2015 Spark EV, and 2017 Volt (still too new to really indicate anything) have never needed any unexpected service, let alone drive units, poor panel fitment, obtrusive wind noise, melting glue around the center screen, rocking chairs, falcon wing doors that don't close reliably,....

 

[Anonymous]

After looking on the Bolt website, which said to see my local dealer for more information, my wife and I visited a Chevy dealer in Venice Florida yesterday to ask about the Bolt. They seemed really irritated that I even asked about it and the sale manager, after a long delay, told the saleswoman to tell us it was only going to be available in California and Washington DC. I said " so this really is only a compliance car". She said " yes and was there anything else she could do for me. I said I was really interested in the Bolt and was really disappointed. She said I was "a one in a million" buyer that wanted an EV. I replied that I was 1 of over 350,000 that plunked down $1000.00 on March 31 to reserve a model 3. She had no reply. My wife said "let go, and keep our test drive appointment to drive a Tesla Model X". At 10AM today we drove the X and it is wonderful in every way. However it too expensive for the average buyer.
Bottom line, GM still doesn't get it. They have designed a car that would fit the needs of a great majority of car buyers but they do not, and/or their dealers do not really want you to buy one. They have no interest in supporting a network of chargers that would make it a good car to drive cross country. It will not be in anyway a competitor to the Model 3 Tesla.
I was born and raised in the Detroit area. I have always been a car nut. It pains me that the "Big Three" can't see the handwriting on the wall and are willing to "bury their heads in the sand" when it comes to EV. How many more times does GM need to go broke, and take Michigan down with them, before they finally get where the future in automobiles is going?

 

[SparkE]

After looking on the Bolt website, which said to see my local dealer for more information, my wife and I visited a Chevy dealer in Venice Florida yesterday to ask about the Bolt. They seemed really irritated that I even asked about it and the sale manager, after a long delay, told the saleswoman to tell us it was only going to be available in California and Washington DC. I said " so this really is only a compliance car". She said " yes and was there anything else she could do for me. I said I was really interested in the Bolt and was really disappointed. She said I was "a one in a million" buyer that wanted an EV. I replied that I was 1 of over 350,000 that plunked down $1000.00 on March 31 to reserve a model 3. She had no reply. My wife said "let go, and keep our test drive appointment to drive a Tesla Model X". At 10AM today we drove the X and it is wonderful in every way. However it too expensive for the average buyer.
Bottom line, GM still doesn't get it. They have designed a car that would fit the needs of a great majority of car buyers but they do not, and/or their dealers do not really want you to buy one. They have no interest in supporting a network of chargers that would make it a good car to drive cross country. It will not be in anyway a competitor to the Model 3 Tesla.
I was born and raised in the Detroit area. I have always been a car nut. It pains me that the "Big Three" can't see the handwriting on the wall and are willing to "bury their heads in the sand" when it comes to EV. How many more times does GM need to go broke, and take Michigan down with them, before they finally get where the future in automobiles is going?

You got it backwards. GM *does* get it. It is the dealer you visited in Venice Florida that does NOT get it. GM is making a great car. GM has announced that it will NOT be limited to just a few states (although I have not seen details of exactly when the cars will be made available in the different states). Some dealerships still don't understand. (1) email GM and ask if the vehicle will be sold in Florida, and if it will be available the same day as in CA. (2) Go visit a different dealership to get a test drive. (3) If you end up buying one, make sure you go back to Venice and tell them "Hey, you could have had my money, but your sales manager had his head up his ass and refused to give me any information and implied you'd never sell the Bolt. I love my Bolt - you are missing the boat, fellas."

GM should not be 'supporting a network of chargers' - I don't think that they should be in the 'selling electricity' business any more than they should own gas stations or Boeing should build runways. Although it would be good to participate in a multi-vendor consortium that would help kick-start a network of super-high-speed charging installations along well-traveled routes, or in individual spots with re-charge 'holes' (like Virginia or southern Georgia). Say, all vendors selling 150+ range BEVs could pool funds to loan a portion of the start-up capital needed to create the first 'refueling concentrations'. If the govt is serious about EVs being important to the environment, then they could pay for any electrical sub-stations (and high tension wires) that would need to be installed, and any business gets equal access to it by paying for wires to bring it to their specific location. At any rate, Florida is pretty well supplied in fast chargers (fast, not super-fast). As is a lot of the east coast, and a lot of California (most of the N-S route in the pacific states).

You then seem to link the Model3 to the idea that GM isn't building a network of chargers. The Tesla model3 will NOT get access to the supercharger network - or at least not without forking over a bunch of money above and beyond the purchase price. Or that was how I interpreted it, but maybe things have changed.

concerning the "Big Three" can't see the handwriting on the wall and are willing to "bury their heads in the sand" when it comes to EV : GM gets it, even if the dealer in Venice doesn't. They built the Bolt and shocked everybody when word got out that they were planning on selling 60,000 in the first 12 months - about 4x more than everybody expected them to budget. GM is *serious* about the Bolt. The automobile press is going a little gaga over the Bolt, and it has appeared in every main auto press outlet. I don't expect this to cool down before Christmas, since GM will be fueling the hype as much as they can, and the press will want to show that GM is going to fail with the Bolt (or at least make everybody wonder if they will).

 

[DucRider]

After looking on the Bolt website, which said to see my local dealer for more information, my wife and I visited a Chevy dealer in Venice Florida yesterday to ask about the Bolt. They seemed really irritated that I even asked about it and the sale manager, after a long delay, told the saleswoman to tell us it was only going to be available in California and Washington DC. I said " so this really is only a compliance car". She said " yes and was there anything else she could do for me. I said I was really interested in the Bolt and was really disappointed. She said I was "a one in a million" buyer that wanted an EV. I replied that I was 1 of over 350,000 that plunked down $1000.00 on March 31 to reserve a model 3. She had no reply. My wife said "let go, and keep our test drive appointment to drive a Tesla Model X". At 10AM today we drove the X and it is wonderful in every way. However it too expensive for the average buyer.
Bottom line, GM still doesn't get it. They have designed a car that would fit the needs of a great majority of car buyers but they do not, and/or their dealers do not really want you to buy one. They have no interest in supporting a network of chargers that would make it a good car to drive cross country. It will not be in anyway a competitor to the Model 3 Tesla.
I was born and raised in the Detroit area. I have always been a car nut. It pains me that the "Big Three" can't see the handwriting on the wall and are willing to "bury their heads in the sand" when it comes to EV. How many more times does GM need to go broke, and take Michigan down with them, before they finally get where the future in automobiles is going?

What SparkE said, plus a few other comments.
It's still early in the process. Dealers - and especially salespeople - have not gotten any training, literature is not available, and they likely know less about the Bolt than you do unless they are active on the forums. The nature of the car business (and most retail for that matter) dictates you sell what you have.
When looking for a good dealer for the Bolt, find out who likes and sells the Volt in volume - they're much more likely to "get it". Not every Chevy dealer (even those that sell the Volt) will decide to make the financial investment to become an authorized Bolt dealer. It's very likely north of $50K before they receive their first Bolt to demo/sell. They are required to invest in a DCFC unit ($15K) from GM, pay to have it installed (480V 3-phase, so not insignificant), plus invest in specialized tools and diagnostic equipment. Then they need to get training for service and sales staff.
Not making excuses - the dealer you visited does not deserve your business. Chances are there is someone nearby who does.

 

[sam]

Wow I assumed most dealers would stock the Bolt. I didn't imagine that electric cars would be distasteful for them

 

[michael]

Keyes Chevrolet in Van Nuys, California is eager to sell me a Bolt as soon as they are available. They are also eager to sell me another Volt to round out my fleet.

They have told me that by aggressively selling the Volt, they have attracted new customers to Chevrolet who in the past would have bought BMW, Lexus, and the like. They are smart.

 

[new2evs]

I would have never guessed certain types of cars would not be sold due to lack of knowledge or equipment by the very same company who manufactures the car itself

 

[Zoomit]

??? GM is not a car dealer, they just make them!

 

[Robaroni]

I didn't read all the replies so I don't know if someone brought this up but a dealer selling a Bolt has to 'gear' up the technology and training of its staff. A dealer can't just get a Bolt in and sell it, they have to be qualified. I spoke to several dealers in my area about this. The saleswomen at my closest dealer didn't know much about the Bolt so she asked her boss and got back to me. He knew and she said they are certified to sell the Bolt and when it comes out they are slated to get them. How many? I don't know, my hope is to lease it if I like it because I'm retired and the $7.5k tax incentive wouldn't help me much. I was told I would be called when it arrives in late Nov. or Dec.

On another note, last spring my wife and I looked at a Leaf. I thought it was a little small, not very attractive and the range was low, my wife hated it. The Nissan dealer knew next to nothing about the car, they wanted $32k for it and gave me a lease price that was ridiculous. It was a really bad experience. I hope the Bolt is better.

By the way, the Leaf on eBay is selling really cheap!
Rob