238 mile range?

[tracyross]

We just fully charged our Bolt for the first time and the max range on the instrument panel is only 213 miles, not 238. Then, after driving about 14 miles the max range had dropped to 185 miles. The radio was on and the heater was on low. Is this normal or could something be wrong?

Thanks.

Tracy

 

[phil0909]

We just fully charged our Bolt for the first time and the max range on the instrument panel is only 213 miles, not 238. Then, after driving about 14 miles the max range had dropped to 185 miles. The radio was on and the heater was on low. Is this normal or could something be wrong?

Thanks.

Tracy

Normal. The car estimates range based on driving practices and conditions over the past several days. As you drive (and as you charge), the estimate changes.

 

[Zoomit]

It's odd, this question gets asked about every 3 days. This displays how inadequate the GM sales process is in teaching customers about the fundamentals of their car.

Tracy--Welcome to the forum. Enjoy your new Bolt EV!

 

[user 124]

Your car comes with a battery rated at 60 kWh capacity. Drive fast / in cold weather / with a heater and you will get less range than the EPA 238 mi. Drive moderately / in temperate weather / AC off or on low and you will get more range than the EPA 238 mi. That's my experience with 2 other EVs.

 

[SeanNelson]

It's odd, this question gets asked about every 3 days. This displays how inadequate the GM sales process is in teaching customers about the fundamentals of their car.

And it should be noted that this isn't peculiar to electric cars. My Prius C also has a range estimate, and it varies upon each fillup depending on the kind of driving I've been doing.

 

[WetEV]

We just fully charged our Bolt for the first time and the max range on the instrument panel is only 213 miles, not 238. Then, after driving about 14 miles the max range had dropped to 185 miles. The radio was on and the heater was on low. Is this normal or could something be wrong?

http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5691&p=12055

Short answer, it would be not normal if the range was exactly 238.

The range estimate readouts fondly known as the Guess-Oh-Meter (GOM) use your past driving and current conditions to guess how far you could drive today.

 

[like2bike]

I don't remember asking Nissan salesman any questions about details like that and they certainly didn't offer any information. I remember thinking they must have been told to ask about my commute distance. Since my commute distance is about 18 miles round-trip, they said they LEAF would be great. I wonder what they would have said if I said 60 or 70 miles. My LEAF, even when new, would not be able to do 60 in the coldest Long Island temperatures even with the most eco driving. The first winter, I did a test to try to get a lower limit on range. I got a projected range of 40 mi. Charged in the evening and then the car left outside. 0 F in the morning, drove mostly highway, 65 MPH, full heat use, no pre-heating, for about 20 miles and used half my charge.

Hopefully the Bolt has less cold temperature range loss than the 2013 LEAF. I have read that there is a trade-off between high temp. durability and low temp performance. Since the 2013 battery was reformulated for better high temp. durability, it probably lost on low temp. performance. The Bolt's water cooled battery and battery conditioning in cold weather should be a big improvement over the LEAFs it-is-what-it-is battery.

I asked one LEAF salesman if I could preheat the car from the charge port power, and he didn't know the answer. That's how poorly trained they were for the LEAF in 2013.

I quickly realized it was a bad idea to mention actual low range numbers, that I had measured, to people asking about buying a LEAF. Better to ask their commute distance and try to assess what difficulties they may run into. I would think it would be very irresponsible for a salesman to sell someone an EV without asking the commute distance and, if necessary, discussing the effects of cold weather, etc.

 

[dandrewk]

It's odd, this question gets asked about every 3 days. This displays how inadequate the GM sales process is in teaching customers about the fundamentals of their car.

Disagree 100%. It is not up to a salesman to hand hold customers through every obscure point. Anything and everything they need to know about the car is in the manual. The responsibility rests entirely with the customer and future Bolt driver.

Somehow, I was able to sort things out, and it didn't require a three hour seminar before I drove the car off the lot.

 

[boltage]

Using the heater consumes quite a bit of electricity (in contrast to a gasoline or diesel car where using the heater is free). If you can minimize use of the heater (heated seats consume much less electricity), you will be able to get more range.

 

[dan2112]

Well I was greeted by this on Saturday morning after charging overnight.

 

[tracyross]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Using the heater consumes quite a bit of electricity (in contrast to a gasoline or diesel car where using the heater is free). If you can minimize use of the heater (heated seats consume much less electricity), you will be able to get more range.

Exactly. Yet running the A/C is actually more efficient in an EV than in an ICE. In an ICE, the A/C is typically run via a belt tied to the motor. This not only reduces MPG, but it also reduces power available to the wheels. Most people are familiar with both of these effects. In an EV, it's heat - not A/C - that drags down your MPG (i.e. range). It's just a different mindset.

 

[phil0909]

Using the heater consumes quite a bit of electricity (in contrast to a gasoline or diesel car where using the heater is free). If you can minimize use of the heater (heated seats consume much less electricity), you will be able to get more range.

Yet running the A/C is actually more efficient in an EV than in an ICE. In an ICE, the A/C is typically run via a belt tied to the motor. This not only reduces MPG, but it also reduces power available to the wheels.

None of these things mean that EV A/C is more efficient than ICE A/C. Just a different power source.

 

[Dreaderus]

I lose range on leaf with ac on

With heat on range is impacted but seems more if temp is colder

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Using the heater consumes quite a bit of electricity (in contrast to a gasoline or diesel car where using the heater is free). If you can minimize use of the heater (heated seats consume much less electricity), you will be able to get more range.

Yet running the A/C is actually more efficient in an EV than in an ICE. In an ICE, the A/C is typically run via a belt tied to the motor. This not only reduces MPG, but it also reduces power available to the wheels.

None of these things mean that EV A/C is more efficient than ICE A/C. Just a different power source.

It's not the A/C that's more or less efficient, but rather its affects on MPGs. An EV uses an electric motor, which is more efficient than a belt adding resistance to a combustion engine.

Of course A/C affects the Leaf's range. But it does so far less than the heater does. Especially if one has a resistance heater and/or lives in a cold climate.

 

[phil0909]

It's not the A/C that's more or less efficient, but rather its affects on MPGs. An EV uses an electric motor, which is more efficient than a belt adding resistance to a combustion engine.

I'm not seeing it. A belt can be just about 100% efficient in transferring engine power, right? In both EV and ICEV, MPG/MPGe would be similarly impacted - A/C power has to come from somewhere!

I can see how A/C power transfer would reduce the amount power available to turn the drive wheels, that part makes sense. Can't say I've ever noticed the effect, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7kgzgcqe5s

 

[boltage]

I can see how A/C power transfer would reduce the amount power available to turn the drive wheels, that part makes sense. Can't say I've ever noticed the effect, though.

Even back in the 1980s, some cars automatically temporarily turned off the AC when the accelerator was floored so that the AC would not impact maximum acceleration. Since flooring the accelerator is typically done only for a few seconds, the turning off of the AC for a few seconds would not likely be noticed by the occupants, since the AC would turn back on afterward.

 

[boltage]

Of course A/C affects the Leaf's range. But it does so far less than the heater does. Especially if one has a resistance heater and/or lives in a cold climate.

If the Leaf is one of the newer ones with the heat pump heater, wouldn't the effect of the AC and heater be similar, since the heat pump is like AC turned the other way around?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

It's not the A/C that's more or less efficient, but rather its affects on MPGs. An EV uses an electric motor, which is more efficient than a belt adding resistance to a combustion engine.

I'm not seeing it. A belt can be just about 100% efficient in transferring engine power, right? In both EV and ICEV, MPG/MPGe would be similarly impacted - A/C power has to come from somewhere!

I can see how A/C power transfer would reduce the amount power available to turn the drive wheels, that part makes sense. Can't say I've ever noticed the effect, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7kgzgcqe5s

I started to type out a response, but I think I talked myself in a circle. I'm just going to let this one rest. You may be right. The relative effect on MPG/MPGe may be the same percentage. I'd have to think about it more. Maybe I'll revisit later.

As for feeling the effects, I take it you don't drive an economy car. Try it out on a base model Honda Civic. Take a test drive on a hot day. Turn on the A/C and accelerate from a stop. Stop the car, turn off A/C and do it again. It will be clear as day.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Of course A/C affects the Leaf's range. But it does so far less than the heater does. Especially if one has a resistance heater and/or lives in a cold climate.

If the Leaf is one of the newer ones with the heat pump heater, wouldn't the effect of the AC and heater be similar, since the heat pump is like AC turned the other way around?

Yes, to a point. Below a certain temperature (about 14F, I believe), a heat pump is no longer effect, and the Leaf reverts back to a resistance heater. This is what Nissan calls their "hybrid" heater - it's a combination of a heat pump and a resistance heater. And that's why I put the disclaimer "in a cold climate".