2017 Nissan Leaf Hits Back At Chevrolet Bolt

[oilerlord]

And I'm also worried that Nissan still won't bother with a thermally managed battery pack. That would be pretty much a deal killer for me, based on the track record of their previous packs.

Sean, I don't think you have much to worry about.

Keep in mind that an EV's motor doesn't heat up a garage like an internal combustion engine does. My garage used to get very warm in summer. Not anymore.

 

[SeanNelson]

And I'm also worried that Nissan still won't bother with a thermally managed battery pack. That would be pretty much a deal killer for me, based on the track record of their previous packs.

Sean, I don't think you have much to worry about.

That graph must show the "average" temperature based on 24 hours of readings. The highs in July and August are generally in the high 20's Celsius, with occasional excursions into the 30's. And as I mentioned above on sunny summer days the temperature gets much higher than that in my garage.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Although our temperatures are generally mild, this time of year it gets very hot in my garage.

I have to ask - have you considered parking outside of your garage? I suspect the overnight temperatures would be much lower, and the battery would cool off considerably.

 

[marshallinwa]

That graph must show the "average" temperature based on 24 hours of readings. The highs in July and August are generally in the high 20's Celsius, with occasional excursions into the 30's. And as I mentioned above on sunny summer days the temperature gets much higher than that in my garage.

I just looked at the your weather history and your perception doesn't seem to agree with what was recorded.

https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/CYVR/2015/8/14/MonthlyHistory.html?req_city=&req_state=&req_statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=

 

[SeanNelson]

Although our temperatures are generally mild, this time of year it gets very hot in my garage.

I have to ask - have you considered parking outside of your garage?

Why would I want to buy a car that I'm afraid to park in my garage?

That graph must show the "average" temperature based on 24 hours of readings. The highs in July and August are generally in the high 20's Celsius, with occasional excursions into the 30's. And as I mentioned above on sunny summer days the temperature gets much higher than that in my garage.

I just looked at the your weather history and your perception doesn't seem to agree with what was recorded.

My perception is based on readings that I record daily from a thermometer in my back yard. For August 2015 the average daily high was 25.6 Celsius. For the average to be that high there were obviously many days when it was hotter than that. And that followed two months in which the average daily high was 28.1 (July) and 28.5 (June). That last one was the highest average high I've seen in 10 years of temperature tracking, with literally half the days having a high of 30C or more, and one of them hitting 37C.

I can tell you that the official temperature used by Environment Canada is located at the airport, which because it's directly adjacent to Georgia Strait is always at least a few degrees cooler than what I see at my house in the city. I suspect Wunderground may be using the same stats.

And, to mention the point once more, the garage temperatures considerably exceed that.

 

[oilerlord]

Vancouver is renowned for being cool & rainy most of year - but strangely, you have a heat problem. Interesting.

There are new LED light options that use less electricity and give off far less heat than traditional metal halides. Best of all, they won't affect your harvest. May I suggest:

http://growace.com/grow-light/led-grow-lights.html

 

[SeanNelson]

Vancouver is renowned for being cool & rainy most of year - but strangely, you have a heat problem.

It is cool and rainy most of the year. But we have enough heat in the summer months that I'm skeptical about a car that doesn't have a thermally managed battery pack. It might be unjustified, but if there's a better engineered solution out there that meets my needs then that's the one I'm probably going to choose.

I reserve the right to change my mind without advance warning.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Although our temperatures are generally mild, this time of year it gets very hot in my garage.

I have to ask - have you considered parking outside of your garage?

Why would I want to buy a car that I'm afraid to park in my garage?

If you are actually afraid of parking the car in the garage, I suggest not buying it. However, if you like the car and would like to take the best care of it, why is that not an option?

Ultimately, the car does have a TMS. If you leave it in your hot garage, the car will protect its battery from getting too hot. Since this is clearly an occasional situation (and not a season-long situation like in, say, Phoenix AZ), the extra heat in the garage itself would be manageable.

But again, if you are actually afraid to park a Bolt in your garage, then I suggest you look elsewhere for your next car.

 

[DaveInAvl]

FWIW Bill Nye has addressed this problem in his garage by installing two vents - a low one to let cooler air in and a high one to let hotter air out. Details in his book "Unstoppable", or I'm sure elsewhere...

 

[oilerlord]

we have enough heat in the summer months that I'm skeptical about a car that doesn't have a thermally managed battery pack. It might be unjustified, but if there's a better engineered solution out there that meets my needs then that's the one I'm probably going to choose.

I reserve the right to change my mind without advance warning.

We've all probably read about first gen Leaf battery packs that didn't live long in Arizona heat, so your concerns are justified, but for the few weeks out of the year that your garage might hit 30C - personally I wouldn't rule out a Leaf based solely on a lack of active thermal management. Our garage in Phoenix is typically 30-50C May thru August. We both know you wouldn't be subjecting your battery to conditions anywhere close to that, but even so, Nissan has addressed the issue with better battery chemistry to withstand those conditions. That should give you some comfort.

I used to worry about keeping my car in a narrow SOC for *best* battery longevity too - but now, I just make reasonable efforts to that end. If that costs me 5 miles of range six years from now - so be it. As others have suggested, and if you're still concerned; a reasonable effort might be installing a $70 roof vent.

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.12-inch-turbine-galvanized-internally-braced-dual-bearing-combo.1000120013.html

 

[SeanNelson]

If you are actually afraid of parking the car in the garage, I suggest not buying it. However, if you like the car and would like to take the best care of it, why is that not an option?

For me, part of "liking a car" is not having to worry about parking it in my garage.

 

[WetEV]

For me, part of "liking a car" is not having to worry about parking it in my garage.

Then fix your garage.

 

[SeanNelson]

For me, part of "liking a car" is not having to worry about parking it in my garage.

Then fix your garage.

Sorry, but you don't get to tell me what to do. :roll:

 

[GetOffYourGas]

For me, part of "liking a car" is not having to worry about parking it in my garage.

Then fix your garage.

Sorry, but you don't get to tell me what to do. :roll:

This whole discussion is amusing. If you like the car and are willing to make the necessary adjustments, buy it. If you don't want to change your garage and don't feel comfortable parking the car there (or outdoors), don't buy the car. I was merely making a suggestion, I'm not sure why we are still arguing over this.

 

[Nagorak]

And I'm also worried that Nissan still won't bother with a thermally managed battery pack. That would be pretty much a deal killer for me, based on the track record of their previous packs.

Sean, I don't think you have much to worry about.

That graph must show the "average" temperature based on 24 hours of readings. The highs in July and August are generally in the high 20's Celsius, with occasional excursions into the 30's. And as I mentioned above on sunny summer days the temperature gets much higher than that in my garage.

You're not going to have problems up in Vancouver. I don't think you understand how hot it is in Arizona or inland CA. We're talking about temperatures in the 90s F, and approaching 100 F (sometimes breaching it) each and every day for weeks at a time.

If you're just occasionally getting into the 30s C then you really don't have much to worry about. People with Leafs even in Oregon have been having much better luck with them than people in Arizona, Southern California or say Georgia. Those more Southerly areas are where you need to be concerned.

On another note, I find it amusing how the Vancouver temperature graphic on the last page notes "The best month to swim in the sea is July when the average sea temperature is 14 C (57 F)." More like, the best time to swim in the sea is never! Even down here in San Diego the ocean is cold enough!

 

[SeanNelson]

...I find it amusing how the Vancouver temperature graphic on the last page notes "The best month to swim in the sea is July when the average sea temperature is 14 C (57 F)." More like, the best time to swim in the sea is never! Even down here in San Diego the ocean is cold enough!

HA, that's nothing! Did they mention the traditional Polar Bear Swim on New Year's Day?

 

[oilerlord]

Sean, the previous poster's comment about Oregon reminded me about when I was shopping for my EV.

I'm guessing that you're still researching / shopping for an EV. We don't seem to get the crazy low lease deals like they do in the US, so buying a used one worked for me. If you do as well, I'd recommend filtering out all EV's that have lived their lives in Arizona. From experience, it's an oven. As much as battery technology has improved to fight extreme heat, It just makes sense that batteries can't be happy living there. With our gasoline / diesel cars we drive in Phoenix, we end up buying a new battery every three years. No joke. It's one of the reasons the car I bought came from Oregon.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

...I find it amusing how the Vancouver temperature graphic on the last page notes "The best month to swim in the sea is July when the average sea temperature is 14 C (57 F)." More like, the best time to swim in the sea is never! Even down here in San Diego the ocean is cold enough!

HA, that's nothing! Did they mention the traditional Polar Bear Swim on New Year's Day?

One of the many advantages of the East Coast. Due to ocean currents, the water temperature in NY is almost always higher than that in San Diego. East coast gets its current up from the Caribbean. West Coast gets its current down from Alaska.

 

[SeanNelson]

I'm guessing that you're still researching / shopping for an EV. We don't seem to get the crazy low lease deals like they do in the US, so buying a used one worked for me. If you do as well, I'd recommend filtering out all EV's that have lived their lives in Arizona.

I'm looking for a 300km plus vehicle, which pretty much eliminates used EVs of any flavour (Teslas are too big and too sedan-y for me). Since Bolts are so scarce here and I haven't had the opportunity to do a decent test drive in one, it looks like the Gen2 Leaf is going to at least be announced before I'll have any chance to buy a Bolt - so I'll certainly pay attention to what it has to offer. A thermally-managed battery would be a strong positive in my assessment, because it tells me that the manufacturer takes battery life seriously.

 

[IMAdolt]

I'm guessing that you're still researching / shopping for an EV. We don't seem to get the crazy low lease deals like they do in the US, so buying a used one worked for me. If you do as well, I'd recommend filtering out all EV's that have lived their lives in Arizona.

I'm looking for a 300km plus vehicle, which pretty much eliminates used EVs of any flavour (Teslas are too big and too sedan-y for me). Since Bolts are so scarce here and I haven't had the opportunity to do a decent test drive in one, it looks like the Gen2 Leaf is going to at least be announced before I'll have any chance to buy a Bolt - so I'll certainly pay attention to what it has to offer. A thermally-managed battery would be a strong positive in my assessment, because it tells me that the manufacturer takes battery life seriously.

2018 e golf, 185 mile range? Might be available late this year early next year ..... might.