2 questions in regards of Bolt EV

[Thiagofneves]

Hey there guys. I got 2 questions and hope i can get them answered. I dont know if its ok me sending 2 questions in one post, but i thought it would save time of all of us if i create 2 posts in regards of the same car...

1- im going to my cottage tomorrow and its 240 km. My car is giving me around 330 km...
My charger (the one that comes with the car) is giving me exactly 3 days to recharge 300 km of the car... is that normal? So if i go to the cottage i MUST stay there for at least 3 days...

2. When you press that button behind the steering wheels to "break/recharge" the car, is that me saving my brakes? Or its using my brake to recharge the car, if its not using my brakes, what kind of system is that? Am I wearing out any other "more expensive" part? Because i dont notice any more km added using that button but if thats gonna cost me more money in the future to change the wore out part, i would rather use the breaks...

 

[hodad66]

I'll go for #2 ........ an electric motor works both ways. Put power (battery) into it and it
propels the car. Let the wheels spin the motor (braking) and a small charge is sent back
to the battery. Not overly noticeable but it adds up. To my knowledge this action is not
any more "damaging" than pushing the car forward. One way you call it a motor & the
other a generator. I always drive in "L" & use the paddle if I want to stop quicker.

 

[user 1485]

Hey there guys. I got 2 questions and hope i can get them answered. I dont know if its ok me sending 2 questions in one post, but i thought it would save time of all of us if i create 2 posts in regards of the same car...

1- im going to my cottage tomorrow and its 240 km. My car is giving me around 330 km...
My charger (the one that comes with the car) is giving me exactly 3 days to recharge 300 km of the car... is that normal? So if i go to the cottage i MUST stay there for at least 3 days...

2. When you press that button behind the steering wheels to "break/recharge" the car, is that me saving my brakes? Or its using my brake to recharge the car, if its not using my brakes, what kind of system is that? Am I wearing out any other "more expensive" part? Because i dont notice any more km added using that button but if thats gonna cost me more money in the future to change the wore out part, i would rather use the breaks...

It sounds like you are using a 120v charger, which is useless most of the time. I would install a 240v level 2 charger at your home, which charges a good deal faster. I have not done a long trip yet, but I plan one this summer, and for that I am plotting to find DC fast charging stations, so I can charge up 90 miles in half an hour. Even level 2 chargers no not appear to me to be fast enough for long trips. It's going to be really interesting to see how this works out. It turns out that in New England, in Maine, New York and one or two other states, there are DC fast chargers in Hannaford supermarkets. Now that is a forward looking company....

Using the "L" gear activates regen, and I see the power going back into the battery on every down hill. Of course, if you drive faster than I do, then you might not see it very much. The use of the paddle does increase the braking, but if you really want to stop fast then you still have to use the friction brakes. In general though, its possible to drive without ANY use of the friction brakes. This bodes well for less frequent brake jobs to add to already very long service intervals for the BOLT.

 

[boltage]

1. Using 120V 15A circuits (which the included EVSE will charge at 8A or 12A) will give you about 1 to 1.4 kW, so you are looking at days to fill a Bolt's 60 kWh battery from empty. Best to get a 240V 40A circuit put in your cottage so that you can put a 7 kW EVSE in it to fill a Bolt overnight there.

2. Yes, the button uses regenerative braking to convert kinetic energy into stored energy in the battery. This is similar to pressing the brake pedal lightly (below the threshold where it needs to use the friction brakes to slow the car faster than regenerative braking can).

 

[SparkE]

1- im going to my cottage tomorrow and its 240 km. My car is giving me around 330 km...
My charger (the one that comes with the car) is giving me exactly 3 days to recharge 300 km of the car... is that normal? So if i go to the cottage i MUST stay there for at least 3 days...

2. When you press that button behind the steering wheels to "break/recharge" the car, is that me saving my brakes? Or its using my brake to recharge the car, if its not using my brakes, what kind of system is that? Am I wearing out any other "more expensive" part? Because i dont notice any more km added using that button but if thats gonna cost me more money in the future to change the wore out part, i would rather use the breaks...

1) Terminology first. The charger is the thing that turns AC current to DC current. It is built inside the vehicle chassis and can't be removed. The thing that plugs into a wall socket on one end and into a socket on the Bolt on the other is called an EVSE. The default EVSE (that came with the car, probably in the trunk) runs at 120V (altho it's possible to do a conversion to 240V) and a max of 12 amps. So yes, the EVSE that comes with the car is rather slow, so you might have to leave the car plugged in for 24 hours in the situation you are asking about.

1b) Using the included EVSE, at 120V, the *car* will default to charging itself at 8 amps. If you haven't done anything (changed the settings in the car) then the vehicle is charging at 8 amps. It is possible to increase the charging current to 12 amps (50% faster). Read the manual ("Charge Current Limit Selection" on page 126). If the wiring at "the cottage" is old and crappy, you might not be able to charge at a higher rate (and might even cause electrical problems or a fire - talk to someone familiar with electricity. And read the manual.)

1c) If the wiring is "good" at home (newer wiring, for example), you can set "Location Based Charging settings" so that the car will default to always charge at the higher rate at a particular location (like at home). Talk to someone familiar with electricity about the quality of your wiring. And read the manual.

1d) There may be public charging stations between 'home' and 'cottage' - places that sell you electricity to put into your vehicle (or maybe even give it to you for free). The maximum charge rate for a public, level-2 charge station is about 7.6 kW (240V, 32 Amps), but it will probably be a little less. That is about 5-8 times faster than you get from your default EVSE from Chevy, so 3 hours at one of those stations could be almost the same as 20-24 hours 'at home'. Go to PlugShare ( https://www.plugshare.com/ ) and look for locations that offer J1772 charging near your route (and start and destination). You can type in a town and see a map of (or around) that town that can be zoomed in or out. You want "Public stations" (green teardrop) selected, and (in the 'more options' part) "EV Plug (J1772)" under "outlets" (and all other "outlets" not selected) and "Payment Required" (to show both stations that require payment as well as those that are free). It will show available charging spots - AND some info about each spot you click on. It *should* show which 'network' (company) provides the service and how much it costs. Check it out - maybe there is a park or a restaurant that you could go to for an hour or 90 minutes and get the equivalent of 12 hours charging at home.

1e) If your vehicle is equipped with a DCFC (DC Fast Charge) socket, you may be able to add 120-150 kms in 30 minutes (if a DCFC charging unit is available). They are often very rare - it depends on where you are located. PlugShare can help you find those sites as well (if any are available).

1f) If you don't have a 240V socket at "the cottage" (or nearby), or available fast(er) charging spots near your route, then you don't have much choice - you can't charge the vehicle very quickly. So maybe you want to take a car that burns gasoline. (Invite someone cute if they do the driving - could be a win/win/win situation ).

2) The already given answer(s) for (2) are good. Driving in 'L' mode and using the regen paddle shouldn't wear anything out any faster - in fact it should reduce brake pad wear.

3) OK, OK. If you use DCFC (DC Fast Charge), the charger (the part that turns AC into DC current) is actually outside the vehicle, not inside. It also pumps electrons at a much faster rate than the EVSE that came in the trunk of your car (maybe 50 times faster). It's also a lot BIGGER than the EVSE (and charger) that came with the car - maybe the size of a medium-sized refrigerator...

 

[devbolt]

Using the "L" gear activates regen, and I see the power going back into the battery on every down hill. Of course, if you drive faster than I do, then you might not see it very much. The use of the paddle does increase the braking, but if you really want to stop fast then you still have to use the friction brakes. In general though, its possible to drive without ANY use of the friction brakes. This bodes well for less frequent brake jobs to add to already very long service intervals for the BOLT.

it's a common misconception that regen is only active in L. Regen is also active in D, just not to the same level as in L. And pressing on the brake pedal also activates regen. The friction brakes aren't activated until you've pressed hard on the pedal. Using the regen-on-demand paddle on the steering wheel increases the amount of regen in D and L.

 

[gpsman]

The 120 VAC cord that comes with the car is very useful.

If you drive 1 hour a day, like most people do, you can put in 130 miles per day. More than you use. WITHOUT spending a dime on expensive equipment.

I drive about 1000 miles per month.
I ONLY use the free 120 VAC cord.
I can get free 120 VAC power at work too.


(I have use DCFC a few times while traveling 400 miles from home.)

 

[GetOffYourGas]

The 120 VAC cord that comes with the car is very useful.

If you drive 1 hour a day, like most people do, you can put in 130 miles per day. More than you use. WITHOUT spending a dime on expensive equipment.

I drive about 1000 miles per month.
I ONLY use the free 120 VAC cord.
I can get free 120 VAC power at work too.


(I have use DCFC a few times while traveling 400 miles from home.)

Your usage is a great example of what I've tried to explain to people. With a large battery like the Bolt, many people will find that L1 is fine for day-to-day use. When on the road (e.g. your 400 mile trip), you really want DCFC. L2 actually becomes less important than on a small battery car like the Leaf.

 

[oilerlord]

The 120 VAC cord that comes with the car is very useful.

If you drive 1 hour a day, like most people do, you can put in 130 miles per day. More than you use. WITHOUT spending a dime on expensive equipment.

Because "most" people only drive their EV's in California, Oregon, and Washington.

For those that experience *real* winter, your 238 mile car could become 140 miles or less . On those occasions, there may be times when you need a reasonably short turnaround time charging at home. During the winter season, there are scenarios where it's possible to get behind the 8 ball on L1 charging windows.

For those too cheap to buy a proper L2 EVSE for their $40,000 cars, there are countless DIY threads on modifying the stock EVSE to accept 240v.

 

[user 1034]

Because "most" people only drive their EV's in California, Oregon, and Washington.

For those that experience *real* winter, your 238 mile car could become 140 miles or less . On those occasions, there may be times when you need a reasonably short turnaround time charging at home. During the winter season, there are scenarios where it's possible to get behind the 8 ball on L1 charging windows.

For those too cheap to buy a proper L2 EVSE for their $40,000 cars, there are countless DIY threads on modifying the stock EVSE to accept 240v.

You keep "quoting" these ridiculous numbers with out any proof of them.

So far, what has been noted is a MAX 20% drop in efficiency during cold weather in extreme temperatures. You do like to rile people (or troll in the vernacular).

 

[oilerlord]

You keep "quoting" these ridiculous numbers with out any proof of them.

So far, what has been noted is a MAX 20% drop in efficiency during cold weather in extreme temperatures.

The numbers seem "ridiculous" only because of your lack of knowledge or experience driving an EV in winter conditions. Here's another number: 9kW - which is what the Bolt's heater draws on maximum. The Bolt has a 60 kWh battery. Do the math.

 

[user 1034]

The numbers seem "ridiculous" only because of your lack of knowledge or experience driving an EV in winter conditions. Here's another number: 9kW - which is what the Bolt's heater draws on maximum. The Bolt has a 60 kWh battery. Do the math.

Here's some real-world math, not theoretical for a different battery chemical configuration: In March in Colorado, one of the coldest months in this region, I had 15 less miles per 300 mile charge on average for that period.

So if you are going to run with your windows open, heater blasting and not using the seat heaters, then sure, you'll get a 50% hit (according to your numbers).

 

[gpsman]

The numbers seem "ridiculous" only because of your lack of knowledge or experience driving an EV in winter conditions. Here's another number: 9kW - which is what the Bolt's heater draws on maximum. The Bolt has a 60 kWh battery. Do the math.

What oilerlord does not understand is:

The Bolt EV has a 9kw peak draw heater.

Just like when you start your Sears & Robuck air compressor in your garage, it draws 20 amps for a couple of seconds, 15 amps for a few seconds, then levels off at at 12 amps as the motor levels off at maximum rpm.... so does the Bolt EV heater.

It draws 9kw for about a minute; 5-6 kw for about a minute; then levels off at about 3 kw continuous.

It is literally heating a tank (or pot) of water.
If you cook, you know how this works.
If you want to boil a pot of water, you turn the stove to high. Do you need to keep it on high to maintain the boil? No. Once boiling, you turn the stove to low to keep the pot boiling.

The Bolt, like your stove top pot, requires much less power to maintain temperature, than to initially heat up a cold reservoir.

Lets see if oilerlord can do the math.

 

[oilerlord]

Here's some real-world math, not theoretical for a different battery chemical configuration: In March in Colorado, one of the coldest months in this region, I had 15 less miles per 300 mile charge on average for that period.

So if you are going to run with your windows open, heater blasting and not using the seat heaters, then sure, you'll get a 50% hit (according to your numbers).

This isn't theoretical and/or limited to range data from the Nissan Leaf - it's a fact. The Bolt also has a lithium ion battery pack. Lithium Ion batteries don't perform as well at -15F as they do at 72F. This isn't an opinion, it's science. As such, I'm not going to debate this.

A "300 mile" charge isn't anything close to real-world for an EV rated at 238 EPA miles. Neither is an implied 285 miles / 4.75 miles/kWh in winter temperatures. You're either reading the guess-o-meter as the god's gospel truth, or otherwise hypermiling your car. Either way, you may believe you're helping to promote EV's to the masses with big range numbers, but all you're really doing is setting unrealistic expectations - especially for those that do experience extreme winter cold.

 

[oilerlord]

What oilerlord does not understand is:

The Bolt EV has a 9kw peak draw heater.

Just like when you start your Sears & Robuck air compressor in your garage, it draws 20 amps for a couple of seconds, 15 amps for a few seconds, then levels off at at 12 amps as the motor levels off at maximum rpm.... so does the Bolt EV heater.

It draws 9kw for about a minute; 5-6 kw for about a minute; then levels off at about 3 kw continuous.

If you took the time to read my post...I stated 9kW maximum. How long it stays at 3, 5, 6, or 9kW depends largely on temperature setting, and the outside temperature.

Apologies to the OP. It wasn't my intention to turn this into a cold weather range debate.

 

[oilerlord]

1- im going to my cottage tomorrow and its 240 km. My car is giving me around 330 km...
My charger (the one that comes with the car) is giving me exactly 3 days to recharge 300 km of the car... is that normal? So if i go to the cottage i MUST stay there for at least 3 days...

There are a few of us that maintain that "most" people can make the included 120v plug work for them, all of the time. Regardless if that's actually true or not, given your scenario, and the info you've provided - it's really bad advice suggesting that you can.

The ONLY reason some suggest not buying a 240v EVSE is to save money. Reality is: Life happens. Plans change, emergencies can and do come up. In your case (and countless other scenarios I can think of) what if you don't have the time (much less 3 days) to recharge the battery? My advice is not putting yourself in a bad situation, just to save a few bucks. My dad had a saying for that: Penny wise, pound foolish.

I use a Clipper Creek HCS-40P 240v EVSE. It's portable, and can plug into any 240v NEMA 14-50 outlet. All you would need is one 14-50 outlet at home, and one at the cottage and you're all set. Further, and because you mentioned your destination is a cottage - there may be an RV campground nearby. At campsites, 14-50 outlets are very common, giving you another option for charging.

 

[BerkeleyBowlt]

The ONLY reason some suggest not buying a 240v EVSE is to save money. Reality is: Life happens. Plans change, emergencies can and do come up. In your case (and countless other scenarios I can think of) what if you don't have the time (much less 3 days) to recharge the battery?

Yeah. I've had my Bolt for 6 months now and put 5,100 miles on it. The first month, I tried using only the 120 volt EVSE. It seemed to work fine: While the car was rarely fully charged, I just made sure to not let it run down too much and watched the range closely. I left it plugged in all the time I was home, of course.

Then I got a 240 volt, 40 amp charger (Clipper Creek) and I realized I'd been doing it wrong. Now I buy electricity only at night (when it costs far less thanks to PG&E's time of use EV rates), and I almost never even think about range. Every morning I know the car will be fully fueled, with about 240 miles range even in hilltop reserve mode. I think about filling up the electric car far less than I used to think about filling up the gasoline car.

I've considered the psychology of range anxiety a lot since I got the Bolt. The reality is that I could probably live with the range of a Nissan Leaf if I kept an eye on the range of it all the time, judiciously switched cars with my spouse for some longer trips, and so on. But I never bought one, because I didn't think I wanted to worry about range all the time.

The range my Bolt starts with every morning is as far as I would want to drive it in a single day. In part this is because I have the luxury of a second car in the family -- a Toyota Sienna minivan that's more spacious for trips anyway. But that's a "once every few months" sort of thing. If I did decide to take the Bolt somewhere > 200 miles, I would be okay with stopping for an hour at a DCFC anyway (I've never yet used DCFC, though -- waste of $750 so far, but I bet I'll be glad one day).

How often do I actually require the extra 100+ miles of range compared to a Leaf, or actually require that it be full every morning? Rarely. How often do these things let me avoid worrying about range? All the time.

I think if you're going to have an electric car, one of the benefits of it should be that unlike a gasoline car, you can set things up so that it's usually full. I tell people it's like having a tiny pipe from the gasoline company to my house that drip-drip-drips fuel into it all night long, and it's always got the equivalent of a full 10 gallon tank of gas every morning. People often say "yeah, that would be plenty good enough almost all the time".

But if I had a Leaf, I'd have only 3 gallons worth of gasoline every morning. That doesn't seem like enough for a "normal car".

And I was still using a 120 volt EVSE, I could eventually get my 10 gallons worth, but it would take three days, during which I couldn't use the potential range of it. That's also not normal.

This is why I love the Bolt. When you combine it with a 240 volt EVSE, it proves you can use an electric car like a normal car, and in fact it's actually better than a gasoline car, with less worry, at least in my situation. I wouldn't want to cripple that experience with a slow charger.