So are we all going to end up buying our cars after our leases are up?

[Pigwich]

So here's the big question... The tax credit is gone, so the price on used Bolts will probably skyrocket when this first round of leases turns in. I'm happy with my car, but I'd sure like faster fast charging, which will probably be a thing in 2020 - Is everybody planning on buying Kias or Hyundais? When the time comes? Their tax credit status is probably fine - Or getting bent over by the bank and buying the lease back at asking (or worse) price? I'm going to have to look a the residual value on my car, but it's probably crazy expensive. I know this forum is sort of languishing, but there's still some activity. I'd live to hear what others think...

 

[SparkE]

It's hard to foresee the future.

Prices for used may tank once 70-100 kW (peak) charging vehicles (like the Kona or Niro) hit the market, since they don't have anywhere near the 200K in sales that GM and Tesla (and Nissan) have. The Kona & Niro are "comparatively" priced to compete well with the Bolt. The 2020 Bolt may have faster charging as well, and it may have a larger battery (possibly as an option) as GM is supposed to be going to 8-1-1 NMC technology for the next generation (higher density, and lower cost for the same volume than the 6-2-2 chemistry).

Also, there might be a *Buick* nameplate (definitely will be for China) which would be more luxurious, and there should be at least one other BEV announced before the end of 2019. If the "New Bolt" (or the Buick) has an 85 kWh pack with 90 kW charging rate, the older Bolts might not be as attractive to buyers.


On the other hand, some of the used EVs have been increasing in price. I had been thinking about buying a used SmartCar or Fiat500 electric, just for around town (trips under 50 miles) so that me and the wife wouldn't argue over who got to drive electric that day. They were selling for $4500-$5000 in Jan last year, but are now selling for $7-8K. I'm kicking myself for not buying one; at $5K, I could have driven it as the 'shopping, restaurant, visit friends around town' car for years and it would have been a steal.

 

[SeanNelson]

I bought mine outright and I'm hanging on to it. Best car I've ever owned. I've always bought cars and then kept them for as long as they'll reliably run, and the Bolt will be no different. The only exception I've ever made is for my Prius C, which I sold after about 3 years of ownership to buy the Bolt. As far as I'm concerned it was the right decision.

 

[paulgipe]

I bought mine outright and I'm hanging on to it. Best car I've ever owned. I've always bought cars and then kept them for as long as they'll reliably run, and the Bolt will be no different. The only exception I've ever made is for my Prius C, which I sold after about 3 years of ownership to buy the Bolt. As far as I'm concerned it was the right decision.

Like Sean we usually buy our cars outright and keep them for many years--until we began driving electric. From these forums we learned that the technology is changing so fast that it made sense to lease. Also, as a US resident with a low income, the federal subsidies were useless to us, so leasing became the best strategy.

However, we've now exhausted our rights to the state subsidy (two times at the trough), so the next time we'll have to buy used.

The plan is to return the Bolt at the end of the lease and look for something else. It could be a Bolt coming off lease or a used Model 3. Time will tell what's available.

We got a hell of a deal on our lease ($250 USD/mo total) so it's unlikely buying it will be wise as the residual should be fairly high.

Paul

 

[BoltEV]

What are some examples of your residuals and when do they kick in?

 

[SparkE]

The "residual" is the price that the car is valued at the end of the lease, and it is in the contract. Each contract may be different. In general, low payments to the lease company mean a higher residual (total of the payments including "up front" costs, not just the monthly payment).

 

[BoltEV]

I understand the definition of residual.

I was looking for some real world examples from people who actually leased Bolt EVs.

 

[DucRider]

I understand the definition of residual.

I was looking for some real world examples from people who actually leased Bolt EVs.

The original Bolt EV leases from GM financial had a residual of 61% of MSRP on the LT and 60% on the Premiere (@10K/yr). Higher miles per year allowance dropped those a couple of points.

 

[BoltEV]

Thank you, but I was hoping to hear from a BoltEV leasee who reads his lease and reports the actual residual amount.

 

[DucRider]

Thank you, but I was hoping to hear from a BoltEV leasee who reads his lease and reports the actual residual amount.

A quick search on this forum pulled these:
Mileage: 10K miles / yr
Agreed Value: 43510 (MSRP)
Adjusted Cap Cost: 40403
Residual: 26106

Gross capital cost: $44,503.98
Capitalized cost reduction: $3,681.70 (should have been closer to the federal $7500?)
Adjusted capitalized cost: $40,822.28
Residual Value: $26,343.00

Make: Chevrolet
MSRP: 39690
Sales Price: 39690
Taxed Incentives: 2500
Untaxed Incentives: 0
Down Payment: 2709
Acquisition Fee: 595
Miles: 12000
Residual: 60%

MSRP 42925 vehicle + 525 wearcare
Taxed incentives 2500
Cash down payment 12,072.25 (11,500 down + 572.25 payment for wearcare including 9% tax)
Acquisition 595
Residual 60%
Months 36
Miles 10k

 

[BoltEV]

Thank you, that was very clever!

So $25,026 is about average.

 

[Airbesar]

Great topic.

This my first lease. Got it because I thought there would be spiffier EVs in 3 years. One year from lease end I'm not finding this to be the case.

The only thing close is the Kona. I like the faster charging and HB configuration but I don't like the slower acceleration. The price and the lack of an HB keeps me from Teslas.

I hear that one might be able to extend a lease by up to a year. If that proves true, I'd probably do that.

Otherwise, I'm probably backed into buying the Bolt and not liking the resale 3-4 years out when I expect EVs to be better. Another option is to buy a middle aged ICE HB to use for that period. But I HATE the idea of giving up the EV driving experience for that length of time. Sigh.

 

[PackardV8]

From these forums we learned that the technology is changing so fast that it made sense to lease.

Yes, No, Maybe. As long as the BEV in the garage accomplishes the needed transportation chores, does it matter that there's something newer, better, more expensive out there three years later? Our son and daughter-in-law bought the same logic as Paul quoted above and were early into a BMW i3 lease. However, reality was different. During their three-year-lease, BEV technology hasn't changed as rapidly as predicted. They love their BEV so much, they're running over the allowable miles. Now, with the end of the lease in sight, they wish they'd bought.

Because BMW subsidized the leases, the residual is way high. Then, the i3 goes to auction, brings much less than the residual and is resold by an independent on eBay for less than the original lesee would have had to pay in residual. Very strange bookkeeping.

Also, as a US resident with a low income, the federal subsidies were useless to us, so leasing became the best strategy. . . . We got a hell of a deal on our lease ($250 USD/mo total) so it's unlikely buying it will be wise as the residual should be fairly high.

Without knowing your details; how much down, miles allowed, et al, that does seem like a great lease deal. We'd have definitely considered one of those, but GM and our dealer were nowhere near that. IIRC, it was on the order of $5000 down and $335 a month. We were also able to use the tax credit, so buying worked for us.

jack vines

 

[BoltEV]

From these forums we learned that the technology is changing so fast that it made sense to lease.

Yes, No, Maybe. As long as the BEV in the garage accomplishes the needed transportation chores, does it matter that there's something newer, better, more expensive out there three years later?

YES! Of course: my 17 Bolt EV does not have Adaptive Cruise Control; it does not give me the option for internal Navigation, like Mary Barra promised in the keynote speech at 2016 CES; it does not have Auto Emergency Braking and other new safety features that saves lives!

The evolution of these truly desirable features are coming at a much faster pace then at any time since I received my first drivers license in 1965!

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Because BMW subsidized the leases, the residual is way high. Then, the i3 goes to auction, brings much less than the residual and is resold by an independent on eBay for less than the original lesee would have had to pay in residual. Very strange bookkeeping.

Regarding this, the leasing company can write off the difference as a loss. Even though they didn't really pay the residual, so that in itself is funny bookkeeping.

 

[PackardV8]

From these forums we learned that the technology is changing so fast that it made sense to lease.

Yes, No, Maybe. As long as the BEV in the garage accomplishes the needed transportation chores, does it matter that there's something newer, better, more expensive out there three years later?

YES! Of course: my 17 Bolt EV does not have Adaptive Cruise Control; it does not give me the option for internal Navigation, like Mary Barra promised in the keynote speech at 2016 CES; it does not have Auto Emergency Braking and other new safety features that saves lives!

The evolution of these truly desirable features are coming at a much faster pace then at any time since I received my first drivers license in 1965!

Agree on adaptive cruise. There's no valid excuse for it not being standard.

Disagree on internal navigation. Surveys show a majority of drivers actually prefer to use one familiar system for all navigation - their phone.

Disagree on auto emergency braking as it exists today. Those I've driven take away driver options without providing the ultimate answer - a true autopilot suite. Just last week, one of those systems caused a major pileup by "emergency braking" when an inflatable beach ball blew across the highway. An attentive driver would have made the correct decision there was no threat and held speed. (Of course, an attentive human driver also caused a major pileup by emergency braking in heavy traffic when a stray dog ran across the road.)

As to saving lives - since "personal mobile devices" are the problem, the solution is let all the passengers play with their forkin' fones and let computers drive the car. Those I've ridden in are already safer than the vast majority of humans. They make for a very dull, slow ride, but safe.

jack vines

 

[SeanNelson]

Just last week, one of those systems caused a major pileup by "emergency braking" when an inflatable beach ball blew across the highway. An attentive driver would have made the correct decision there was no threat and held speed.

Wouldn't an attentive driver just have pressed harder on the accelerator to override the emergency brake? From page 225 of my 2017 Bolt manual:

FAB [Forward Automatic Braking] may automatically brake the vehicle suddenly in situations where it is unexpected and undesired. It could respond to a turning vehicle ahead, guardrails, signs, and other non-moving objects. To override FAB, firmly press the accelerator pedal, if it is safe to do so.

 

[WetEV]

Disagree on internal navigation. Surveys show a majority of drivers actually prefer to use one familiar system for all navigation - their phone.

Prefer? Sure. But I'd like to car to have navigation, even if somewhat out of date and less useful than the phone. The reason is range estimation.

The car could, and I'm aware of none that do today, use the route to estimate future energy use and thus range.

 

[BoltEV]

Disagree on internal navigation. Surveys show a majority of drivers actually prefer to use one familiar system for all navigation - their phone.

Are you really suggesting you disagree with my ability to pay extra to have a feature, just because you and a "majority of drivers" don't want to have the option to pay extra for it?

Let me think of all of the options that exist that I do not want to pay for, that should be withheld from your ability to pay extra and have them?

Oh, right, My Bolt EV was "fully loaded" with every option available!

As I noted; once Apple CarPlay becomes wireless, this missing option becomes less valuable. Until such time, it is a pain in the *ss!!!

 

[SeanNelson]

Disagree on internal navigation. Surveys show a majority of drivers actually prefer to use one familiar system for all navigation - their phone.

Are you really suggesting you disagree with my ability to pay extra to have a feature, just because you and a "majority of drivers" don't want to have the option to pay extra for it?

Let me think of all of the options that exist that I do not want to pay for, that should be withheld from your ability to pay extra and have them?

It's not about what you want vs. what PackardV8 wants. It's about what *most* people want, and therefore what the manufacturers are willing to spend development money on in order to lure buyers.

Built-in NAV has gotten a (well deserved IMHO) bad rep because it's incredibly expensive to update and it doesn't compare favourably to the mapping software available on phones. There's just not enough money to be made in developing mapping software for exclusive use in cars for it to compete with the much, much larger market of phone users. So the in-car systems have fallen behind, and that means less people want them, which means an even smaller incentive for manufacturers to pay for their development, etc. etc. It's a death spiral.

So I'm afraid you'll have to learn to live without it. I expect it will cease being an option on pretty much all cars as Android Auto and CarPlay support saturates the market.