Owners manual says little about battery care

[like2bike]

It concerns me that the owners manual says little about battery care. It would be great if the Bolt's battery was immune from the effects of storage at high state-of-charge and high temperatures, but we know that's not true. This contrasts with the probably overly dire warning in my 2013 LEAF manual. Before you jump on the LEAF battery as substandard, my battery has only 14% loss at 40K miles (LI, NY use). And I didn't even follow all of Nissan's advise. They recommend against repeated DCFC, which would may touring kind of difficult. The crooked battery capacity bars on the dash still show 12 bars however, lol. It will be interesting to see if dealers will provide any warnings verbally.

Do other EV owner manuals hide these details as much as Chevy's?

 

[gpsman]

IIRC it says if storing the car for 1 month or less, leave it plugged into a wall socket to keep it topped off.

For storage of longer than 1 month it says to store the car with a low state of charge, open the service disconnect, and put a float charger on the 12 volt battery only.

 

[oilerlord]

Do other EV owner manuals hide these details as much as Chevy's?

I think there is a balance between an Owner's Manual being helpful, and providing too much detail which can be overwhelming for some. Joe public wants to plug the car in and go. With that in mind, Chevrolet likely approached writing the manual more as guide than a technical reference.

Also, since many will lease the car, long term battery care is inconsequential. As for dealers providing battery care tips to their customers, don't count on it. It's impossible for a Chevy Bolt salesperson to "hide" something they know absolutely nothing about.

 

[elpwr]

I totally agree with OP. I think it would be very beneficial if the manufacturer would provide some suggestions for enhancing the battery longevity. A few simple, relatively easy to accommodate precautions, are well recognized for extending battery life. They don't have to be presented as "rules", only that they should be observed if possible.

My Spark EV's paper manual has next to nothing on battery care. And some of what is there is contrary to accepted wisdom - you should not leave the battery plugged in and "topped off" for extended periods. Prolonged 100% SOC is detrimental to battery life.

My Model S's PDF manual goes into more detail and has some helpful information. But more could be presented. I've got about 43,000 miles combined on these two EV's. And neither one is showing significant battery degradation. I've been careful with the batteries when I can accommodate the precautions. But not all the time as that is not always possible.

 

[michael]

Do other EV owner manuals hide these details as much as Chevy's?

I think there is a balance between an Owner's Manual being helpful, and providing too much detail which can be overwhelming for some. Joe public wants to plug the car in and go. With that in mind, Chevrolet likely approached writing the manual more as guide than a technical reference.

Also, since many will lease the car, long term battery care is inconsequential. As for dealers providing battery care tips to their customers, don't count on it. It's impossible for a Chevy Bolt salesperson to "hide" something they know absolutely nothing about.

I agree, the owner's manuals usually say "leave it plugged in"

The manual for the RAV-4 EV was more specific. It said (page 50)

1. Use the extended charge option only when necessary since it would impair battery life
2. Use the charge timer to complete charging soon before departure, rather than charging up immediately as this avoids storage at high SOC
3 Avoid parking the vehicle in high temperature siguations when then battery is fully charged.

These are all valid recommendations, and much better than "keep it plugged in"

 

[SparkE]

These are all valid recommendations, and much better than "keep it plugged in"

Well, that depends on the car. Nobody actually has a Bolt yet, but I've heard that it is possible to use the "hilltop" option to only charge to 90% max, and that it has an active thermal management system that heats the battery pack in very cold weather and cools it in really hot weather when plugged in. "Keep it plugged in" may actually be the best advice for the Bolt.

 

[oilerlord]

People can learn more about the consequences regarding the lack of battery care has in terms of what is and what isn't covered by reading the fine print in their battery warranty than they can from any owner's manual. The way the battery warranty document is written, Tesla has pretty much left enough wiggle room to deny nearly all battery warranty claims. I haven't read GM's battery warranty statement but I'd assume that it's written more to protect the company than it is the buyer.

 

[michael]

These are all valid recommendations, and much better than "keep it plugged in"

Well, that depends on the car. Nobody actually has a Bolt yet, but I've heard that it is possible to use the "hilltop" option to only charge to 90% max, and that it has an active thermal management system that heats the battery pack in very cold weather and cools it in really hot weather when plugged in. "Keep it plugged in" may actually be the best advice for the Bolt.

Yes, it has a hilltop option at 90% which is way better than full, but lower than that is better.

Failing to use the hilltop option corresponds to using the RAV-4s "extended" option.
Charging is best done "just in time" and only to the extent needed to do the required distance with comfortable margin.

By bringing up the question of "...well maybe it should be plugged in..." it's going back to exactly the issue that another poster raised. The manufacturers say that because it's a straightforward, don't ask questions solution, not because it's optimal.

If you were going away on a trip for two weeks, would you leave it plugged in? Charged up to 90% for two weeks? Of course not. You'd leave it at some much lower SOC. Maybe at 40% where the battery would be at very low stress.

 

[like2bike]

I suspect the Hilltop mode is also to allow charging to only 90% for normal use. I understand Nissan removed the option to charge the LEAF to 80% after the EPA wanted to base the range rating on the 80% charge level. Chevy may be calling it the Hilltop mode to avoid that issue. It will be interesting to see if they have the dealers recommend using it that way. I think Chevy is going to try to get the dealers to be less lame than the Nissan dealer who, while explaining the features of the car, handed me a coupon for a free oil change :lol: . Even worse, the dealers keep sending me postcards offering free oil changes! Really gives you the feeling they're committed to EVs :roll: .

 

[Michael1]

Chevy appears to want this to be a mass market car, not an EV enthusiasts' car. If the manual has don't do this, do this, you must baby the battery, the word will get out and no one will buy the car other than a few enthusiasts, at which point they will be back to square one. They don't want people obsessing over the battery, trying to eek out the last percent of life out of it.

Also I'm sure they want to see how the car will perform being used by regular people, not BEV nuts and technophiles, and use that information for future model development.

I know I wouldn't baby the battery. Either the car holds up to regular use or it's sold. I'm not about to change my lifestyle to fit the car other than plugging it in when I get home, and unplugging it when I leave.

 

[oilerlord]

Chevy appears to want this to be a mass market car, not an EV enthusiasts' car. They don't want people obsessing over the battery, trying to eek out the last percent of life out of it. I'm not about to change my lifestyle to fit the car other than plugging it in when I get home, and unplugging it when I leave.

I'm guilty of fussing with my car. I keep track of things like temperature vs range and overall efficiency. I'm "that guy" that wants to know exactly how much energy that the battery warming system uses in 0F - and if installing a diesel hydronic parking heater into the coolant line would return most of my summer range. I just came in from outside from sweeping the snow off one of my my solar panel arrays because I was "losing" about 1kW that could be going into my battery. Basically, I have OCD. Somehow that makes me feel better by admitting it, and with the help of meds and support from my family and weekly EV's Anonymous group meetings, I'm sure I'll get through this.

I digress. Sorry about that.

I think we need to set expectations in terms of what "mass market" means. Joe Public just wants to drive. Everyone I meet asks the same questions about the car:

How far does it go on a charge?
How long does it take to charge?
How long does the battery last, and how much does it cost to replace it?

These are questions that most of us have researched, and know from experience. For the most part, Joe Public doesn't have a clue, or seems to care. That blissful ignorance is the barrier from the Bolt crossing the chasm into the mainstream.

 

[SeanNelson]

...Basically, I have OCD. ...

It's "CDO", with the letters in alphabetical order the way they're supposed to be!

 

[DucRider]

I think we need to set expectations in terms of what "mass market" means. Joe Public just wants to drive. Everyone I meet asks the same questions about the car:

How far does it go on a charge?

"If you have an average commute, it will take you to work and back all week without charging" (If looking at a Tesla - or soon the Bolt - at the moment)

"About xx in weather like this. The EPA rating is 82 miles on a charge. In the summer it is fairly easy to get over 90 miles, but in the winter 50 or 60 is typical." (If looking at the Fit EV)

If they are asking about another EV, the response will be modified as appropriate.

How long does it take to charge?

"It takes just a few seconds every night to plug it in, and a couple more to unplug in the morning. We sure don't miss going to the gas station."

How long does the battery last, and how much does it cost to replace it?

"The battery is warranted for 8 years or 100K miles. Replacement cost would be just a guess, but battery prices are decreasing rapidly. Mainstream EV's have only been on the market for about 6 years, and very few batteries have needed replacing in that time. If ever the time comes, it will likely be about equivalent to an engine replacement."

Yes I know you will accuse me of "rose colored glasses", but nothing in those statements is incorrect, and I have very similar conversations literally hundreds of times a year. Each of those responses encourages further dialogue. Someone that is seriously interested will have more questions and/or want further details. I am happy to discuss them. Cold weather performance, how much does it cost to charge at home (and on the road), the minimal maintenance requirements and the "fun" factor usually come up. If someone is very interested, charging options and protocols (home and public) usually enter into the mix. It sometime progresses to things to look for in an EV and my opinions on the pros and cons of the various EV's on the market.

 

[michael]

Chevy appears to want this to be a mass market car, not an EV enthusiasts' car. If the manual has don't do this, do this, you must baby the battery, the word will get out and no one will buy the car other than a few enthusiasts, at which point they will be back to square one. They don't want people obsessing over the battery, trying to eek out the last percent of life out of it.

Also I'm sure they want to see how the car will perform being used by regular people, not BEV nuts and technophiles, and use that information for future model development.

I know I wouldn't baby the battery. Either the car holds up to regular use or it's sold. I'm not about to change my lifestyle to fit the car other than plugging it in when I get home, and unplugging it when I leave.

This is the same attitude I saw on the Focus Electric board three years ago when I was advising people to treat the battery with care. I got angry responses including...

The Focus has a liquid cooled battery, it will last forever
Ford did such a great job engineering the car that the battery will last forever
The reason I bought a Focus rather than a Leaf is so I wouldn't need to worry about these things
I don't care, the battery has a warranty. They will replace it
The manual says to keep it plugged in
I've driven it 10,000 miles already and the battery is strong as ever

etc
etc

Well let me tell you, the battery DID fade after enough time and miles. The battery is the most expensive part of the car, and it should be given good care

 

[elpwr]

Nobody is suggesting that you have to "baby" the battery or change your lifestyle. Observing a few well-known precautions, when it's practical to do so, is all that is really necessary.

If that's too much of an imposition on you then maybe you're not a good candidate for an EV. And probably not a good candidate for an ICE car either as they do require some care also.

 

[oilerlord]

This is the same attitude I saw on the Focus Electric board three years ago when I was advising people to treat the battery with care. I got angry responses including...

The Focus has a liquid cooled battery, it will last forever
Ford did such a great job engineering the car that the battery will last forever
The reason I bought a Focus rather than a Leaf is so I wouldn't need to worry about these things
I don't care, the battery has a warranty. They will replace it
The manual says to keep it plugged in
I've driven it 10,000 miles already and the battery is strong as ever

etc
etc

Well let me tell you, the battery DID fade after enough time and miles. The battery is the most expensive part of the car, and it should be given good care

Yup. This is one of the catch 22's of BEV's. Battery care is glossed over in the manual, and dealers will no doubt sell the free & easy benefits of ownership, but all the while there are a list of conditions on how battery claim can be denied as stated in the car's warranty document. The battery is the most expensive part of the car, has a finite lifespan, and should be given good care.

 

[like2bike]

Chevy appears to want this to be a mass market car, not an EV enthusiasts' car. If the manual has don't do this, do this, you must baby the battery, the word will get out and no one will buy the car other than a few enthusiasts, at which point they will be back to square one. They don't want people obsessing over the battery, trying to eek out the last percent of life out of it.

Also I'm sure they want to see how the car will perform being used by regular people, not BEV nuts and technophiles, and use that information for future model development.

I know I wouldn't baby the battery. Either the car holds up to regular use or it's sold. I'm not about to change my lifestyle to fit the car other than plugging it in when I get home, and unplugging it when I leave.

If we were really seeing EVs going mass market with the Bolt, the subject would be moot since the mass market doesn't read the manual. I certainly understand and have seen your concerns before. And I think some people seem to think even plugging and unplugging daily is too onerous for them. I think the market for this car will be still be people who will at least be reading the manual. From my experience, you'll find the battery to be rugged beyond your wildest expectations. Unless you live in a hot climate, then we can only hope it does a lot better than the first LEAF battery. For daily use, the lifestyle changes are all positive. No more visiting the gas pump; When the traffic light changes instead of hearing varoom you'll have to look in the rear view mirror to see the cars going varoom and wonder what they're still doing at the light; And the car will have the same smooth power at 40K miles as it had when it was new. For trips that exceed the range, then there is of course a lifestyle change. I joke that some people probably worry "What if a suddenly decide I want to drive across the country, then what would I do?". I would guess you don't have any plans to do much long range driving with the Bolt. With my LEAF, touring is still a motoring adventure and although the Bolt is a big improvement it would still be a lifestyle change for a long trip.

 

[Michael1]

Chevy appears to want this to be a mass market car, not an EV enthusiasts' car. They don't want people obsessing over the battery, trying to eek out the last percent of life out of it. I'm not about to change my lifestyle to fit the car other than plugging it in when I get home, and unplugging it when I leave.

I'm guilty of fussing with my car. I keep track of things like temperature vs range and overall efficiency. I'm "that guy" that wants to know exactly how much energy that the battery warming system uses in 0F - and if installing a diesel hydronic parking heater into the coolant line would return most of my summer range. I just came in from outside from sweeping the snow off one of my my solar panel arrays because I was "losing" about 1kW that could be going into my battery. Basically, I have OCD. Somehow that makes me feel better by admitting it, and with the help of meds and support from my family and weekly EV's Anonymous group meetings, I'm sure I'll get through this.

I digress. Sorry about that.

I think we need to set expectations in terms of what "mass market" means. Joe Public just wants to drive. Everyone I meet asks the same questions about the car:

How far does it go on a charge?
How long does it take to charge?
How long does the battery last, and how much does it cost to replace it?

These are questions that most of us have researched, and know from experience. For the most part, Joe Public doesn't have a clue, or seems to care. That blissful ignorance is the barrier from the Bolt crossing the chasm into the mainstream.

Nothing wrong with that. I'm the same way, although I do like to test vehicle limits. I'll just do it measuring it along the way.

 

[oilerlord]

If they are asking about another EV, the response will be modified as appropriate.

How long does it take to charge?

"It takes just a few seconds every night to plug it in, and a couple more to unplug in the morning. We sure don't miss going to the gas station."

How long does the battery last, and how much does it cost to replace it?

"The battery is warranted for 8 years or 100K miles. Replacement cost would be just a guess, but battery prices are decreasing rapidly. Mainstream EV's have only been on the market for about 6 years, and very few batteries have needed replacing in that time. If ever the time comes, it will likely be about equivalent to an engine replacement."

Yes I know you will accuse me of "rose colored glasses", but nothing in those statements is incorrect, and I have very similar conversations literally hundreds of times a year.

Actually, I (and I'd assume most others on this board) answer those questions the same way you have. Ever try to expand on why it takes some cars longer to charge at 8 amps than at 30, or what makes up a kWh? The point I was making is that we may as well be driving spaceships.

I hang out on another car forum, and there are a lot of smart guys on that board that know a lot about cars. As knowledgeable as they are, when it comes to MPGe, and acronyms like EVSE, DCFC, and J1772, they have learning to do. Car guys think "supercharger" is something you put on an engine to make the car go faster.

I'm not at all saying that the mass market isn't capable of learning about an EV's battery, and how to care for it, but the bigger question is - do they want to. People don't understand EV's, and I think that lack of education is a significant barrier to them being widely adopted into the mainstream.

 

[DucRider]

Actually, I (and I'd assume most others on this board) answer those questions the same way you have. Ever try to expand on why it takes some cars longer to charge at 8 amps than at 30, or what makes up a kWh? The point I was making is that we may as well be driving spaceships.

I hang out on another car forum, and there are a lot of smart guys on that board that know a lot about cars. As knowledgeable as they are, when it comes to MPGe, and acronyms like EVSE, DCFC, and J1772, they have learning to do. Car guys think "supercharger" is something you put on an engine to make the car go faster.

I'm not at all saying that the mass market isn't capable of learning about an EV's battery, and how to care for it, but the bigger question is - do they want to. People don't understand EV's, and I think that lack of education is a significant barrier to them being widely adopted into the mainstream.

The general public doesn't care and also doesn't need to know much what you list anymore than they need to know what octane ratings mean, how they are derived, and what the different standards are. They know their car wants "regular" or "premium". Do most care whether it is a torsion beam or multi-link suspension? Dual overhead cam? Direct fuel injection? There will always be "car nuts" that know the minutia and can recite it, but 90%+ don't give a rip.

That's why Chevy isn't touting "80 kW DCFC" or "7.2 kW AC L2". Yes, consumers need to know the difference, but it's not that different than gasoline grades (or not pumping gas instead of diesel into your tank). 4 miles per hour of charging plugging in to a home outlet or 25 miles using the optional charging equipment. 90 miles in half an hour with DCFC. GM is getting some heat for not providing exact specs, but I believe that is a decision calculated to make the Bolt more mass market friendly. The video clips on https://www.chevyevlife.com/ reflect this.

MPGe is easy. "The EPA has calculated how much energy is in a gallon of gas and this car will go xxx miles on that same amount of energy". "J1772"? Who cares?
Like it or not, EVSE and "charger" are now interchangeable terms.

I think you are underestimating the capacity for people to adapt to new technologies. They haven't had that much trouble with electronics and the terminology and jargon associated with it. EV's are just another new technology that will be integrated into our daily lives and will bring new acronyms and terms into daily use. Grandma may not know what 1080p is, but almost everyone under 25 does.