I'm shopping for an EV. What's next?

[oilerlord]

Out of the blue, a client of mine made me an pretty decent offer for my B250e. I love the car and never even considered selling it...until now. With said, "car guy" is part of my DNA. I love researching, shopping for, and driving different cars. Especially electric cars.

I won't be leasing, because the crazy low lease deals aren't available where I live. The next EV I buy will probably be a lease return, but with less than 10,000 miles on it. My budget is USD $25,000.

The Bolt is a strong candidate, however I'd probably need to wait another year for used car prices to fit that budget. I'm also considering a used BMW i3 REx, as very low mileage 2016's can be had for $25K or less - which I think is a steal. Range isn't really a problem with my B250e except for couple of weeks in winter when it gets really cold. I could get buy with another 87 mile EV but 120 miles would be fine. A heat pump would be a bonus. My next EV will also have DC fast charging as there is a new charging station that just came up in my area in the last few months. I have not doubt there will be more popping up soon.

I've also come to the realization that I'm going to give up some rear-seats-up cargo room, regardless of the next EV I end up with. Small = more efficient. That's a good thing, and I get that. I won't however consider a Fiat 500e or a used Spark EV - regardless of how good they are. The Nissan Leaf never excited me either; not that I think it's a bad car, just that it's not for me.

The Hyundai Ioniq EV is the a car I'd buy tomorrow, that is, if I could pick up a used one for $25K. Right now, the i3 REx seems to be the ticket, and only because I'm not looking to spend a lot of money. Wife acceptance factor is also a consideration. The car has to be reasonably upscale with a decent amount of luxury & comfort.

Even though I don't drive a Bolt, I hang out a lot on this site because it's a great forum with very knowledgeable members with a lot of experience. I'm curious for others thoughts on choosing my next EV.

 

[SeanNelson]

...I'm also considering a used BMW i3 REx, as very low mileage 2016's can be had for $25K or less - which I think is a steal...

It's not something I've paid a lot of attention to, but my impression is that the REx is generally viewed as an unsatisfactory solution compared to something like a Volt. I passed on the Volt because of it's form factor, but it's something that you might consider. And the low price for the i3's might be a hint to avoid them.

My next EV will also have DC fast charging as there is a new charging station that just came up in my area in the last few months. I have not doubt there will be more popping up soon.

A lot of new charging stations are just being installed in the Kootenays here in BC - apparently one is going into Field pretty soon. With an EV of decent range that opens up the route to the west coast for you.

 

[oilerlord]

I've pretty much ruled out the Volt for a couple of reasons - like you, I also prefer a hatchback, and secondly; the Volt's lower EV-only range will force me to burn gasoline more than I care to, especially in winter. In terms of a solution, I guess it depends on the criteria that we determine as "unsatisfactory", but 53 EPA (EV) miles doesn't cut it for me. If I do end up with a PHEV, I'd like it to start with about same 90-ish EPA miles I have now so 99% of the time, I'm driving electric. As far as I know, that limits my choice to an i3 REx.

I think the over-the-top, love it or leave it styling of the i3 along with the usual EV depreciation sets the market price on a used i3's. I don't see their low resale prices as a red flag, but more as an opportunity. I think the Spark EV is a good car too, but that didn't stop them from losing half their value in a couple of years either. The looks of the i3 have grown on me, especially in black with how the body panels flow seamlessly into the hood and rear hatch. I'm test driving one tomorrow. I suppose I've already talked myself into the BMW. The other option is to wait a year until used Bolts start becoming available at the price I'm willing to pay.

 

[DucRider]

Used Bolt LT's are all over cars.com with an asking price of $27-28K. Most are likely from the demo fleet that did the auto show and test drive tour near the release of the Bolt. $25K is probably not out of the question with a little patience.

Might be lacking in the "reasonably upscale with a decent amount of luxury & comfort" requirement. Not many (any?) EV's measure up to the B250e in that category.

As to the i3, park it between two cars in a parking lot and then try and get something out of the back seat. Drove my wife nuts when we tried one for a weekend on a Turo rental. She hated the rear door arrangement - enough to be a deal breaker.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm also considering a used BMW i3 REx, as very low mileage 2016's can be had for $25K or less - which I think is a steal.

Likely a bad idea. The REx version of the i3 has experienced a lot of problems, with a lot of them getting "bricked" at the side of the road by problems with the REx. I don't really follow them, but Cwerdna over at the Leaf forum does, and he's pretty convincing when he says under no circumstances own one that isn't still under full warranty....

 

[oilerlord]

Used Bolt LT's are all over cars.com with an asking price of $27-28K. Most are likely from the demo fleet that did the auto show and test drive tour near the release of the Bolt. $25K is probably not out of the question with a little patience.

Might be lacking in the "reasonably upscale with a decent amount of luxury & comfort" requirement. Not many (any?) EV's measure up to the B250e in that category.

As to the i3, park it between two cars in a parking lot and then try and get something out of the back seat. Drove my wife nuts when we tried one for a weekend on a Turo rental. She hated the rear door arrangement - enough to be a deal breaker.

Good points, Gary.

I'd be going with the Premier model. Has to have pseudo-leather seats, and all the goodies. Same would go with the i3, the ones with leather seats aren't as common but they are out there. The 2016 I'm looking at is the top-end trim level, and has them. Totally agree with your take on those doors though. I'd love to rent one for a few days and see if sanity remains intact.

To Leftie's point, to my surprise; my wife actually asked me why I'd need to have the gasoline range extender since we already drive her X3 on longer trips when necessary. That would not only be a 270 pound weight saving, but also save money. It does seem that the majority of problems that people have with the car - are with the REX components. Within a year, I might be able to find one of the 114 mile battery-only versions of the i3 at $25,000 - that is, if I decide I'm able to deal with the car's quirks. DCFC will eventually become more available in my area. Other than range, one advantage I see with the REX model is having more weight in the back of a rear-wheel drive car. Because icy roads can be an issue for 5 months out of the year, the extra traction would be a good thing.

Patience is a virtue I suppose. A year from now, I have no doubt I'd there will be a lot of Bolt Premiers at $25K to choose from. Trouble is, I hooked on driving electric. Not sure I'm ready to go back to driving our old BMW 330 that gets 19 MPG on premium gas.

 

[SparkE]

I have sort of resigned myself to picking up an inexpensive gen-1 LEAF when my current EV lease runs out next year, and driving it for 18-24 months until a model that I actually would like to keep starts coming off lease in droves. I can get an under-40K-mile LEAF for $6K or so and drive that for a couple of years - when I sell it I might "lose" $2000 or so ($1000/yr is a pretty cheap ride, actually). It would be the family's "around town" vehicle, up to 50 miles away or so (or along a freeway corridor with lots of DCFCs, like US-101 up to SanFrancisco). And I don't have to deal with snow, so that's a non-issue.

Somewhere around 2021 multiple "extended range" EV models should be available used : Bolt, IONIQ EV (hopefully with 150+ miles), LEAF2, eGolf, whatever else Kia/Hyundai ships this year, etc. If I am going to buy an EV for "the long term", I'd like it to have more than 100 miles range. I'm also rather tempted by the Honda Clarity PHEV, as it would probably cover over 90% of our daily driving as an EV; that vehicle along with an 80-100 mile range BEV would be a nice pairing.

Anyhow, sorry for the rambles - none of that really helps you. Unless you would consider just buying one of the 10s of thousands of LEAFs and driving it for a couple of years to tide you over until you see the car you really want. $1000-$1500/yr to drive a late model car for a couple of years is really rather inexpensive.

Have you considered the Kia Soul EV? I haven't been following them at all (they could be pure shite), but it seems more in line (cargo space) with what you have...

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Other than range, one advantage I see with the REX model is having more weight in the back of a rear-wheel drive car. Because icy roads can be an issue for 5 months out of the year, the extra traction would be a good thing.

This is a valid concern. You can always add weight in the trunk. Those with RWD pickups frequently load sandbags over the rear wheels for exactly this purpose. You could buy some gym weights and lay them in the trunk for example.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Other than range, one advantage I see with the REX model is having more weight in the back of a rear-wheel drive car. Because icy roads can be an issue for 5 months out of the year, the extra traction would be a good thing.

This is a valid concern. You can always add weight in the trunk. Those with RWD pickups frequently load sandbags over the rear wheels for exactly this purpose. You could buy some gym weights and lay them in the trunk for example.

I was going to suggest the usual 25lb bag or two of cat litter. It can help outside the car as well as inside.

 

[oilerlord]

I've been giving more thought to Duc's comment about the i3's doors. Step 1: Open driver's door, Step 2: Open rear door. I'd put up with it, but I already know that would make my wife go off the deep end, especially in a tight parking space. I did consider the Soul EV too, but that's kind of a sideways move from the B250e so why bother. Sure, I'd get chademo fast charging but that's more of a nice to have than a need to have. I've put over 30,000 KMs on the B250e on 240v, and haven't at all felt inconvenienced.

I was offered $5,000 less than I originally paid 1.5 years ago for the B250e At first thought that sounds like a pretty good deal but I've come to the realization that my car will continue to depreciate, but so will used Bolt EV's. Spending $75 per week in gasoline driving our 330 for a year waiting for Bolt prices to come down doesn't make a lot of sense either. I think the best move for me is to do nothing. Just keep driving the B250e until used Bolt EV's come down to a price I'm comfortable with. When those early Bolt EV's come off lease next year I think resale values will have taken a 50% haircut.

 

[SeanNelson]

I've been giving more thought to Duc's comment about the i3's doors. Step 1: Open driver's door, Step 2: Open rear door. I'd put up with it, but I already know that would make my wife go off the deep end, especially in a tight parking space.

Yeah, there seems to be a contingent that faults the doors for opening "backwards", but to me it's the need to open the driver's door first that's the deal breaker. It's just such an awkward arrangement. I'm pretty neutral as far as the overall look of the car goes, but this is a seriously bad design feature in my opinion.

 

[JerryBob]

I am currently leasing an i3. I got the all electric version because it is lighter, gets better efficiency, and was cheaper. The back doors are a pain in the butt. If you are in a parking lot with a car parked next to you you have to open the front door, stand next to the inside of the front door while opening the back door and you are squeezed between the 2 while putting anything (including kids or adult backseat passengers squeezed next to you opening the front door) in the back seat. My wife hands me packages over the top of the back door and I can't count the number of times passengers have closed the front doors 1st before the back ones. The windows don't roll down either. The 1st comment my wife gave about the new Bolt was "Yeah, normal doors". There are a lot of annoying features on the idrive system but you can attach a laptop and reprogram a lot of them. One is the 1.6 gallon range for the 2.1 gallon tank in the REX. Why they would let your car die on the side of the road with .5 gallons of gas in the tank and no AM radio for the U.S. market is a mystery. A lot are coming off lease so if you can get a good price on one it might be worth it. Check the range estimate on the dash. If you are looking at the 22Kwh battery pack version a full charge in comfort mode should be close to an 80 mile range. If it is lower it could be an indication of a loss of battery capacity.

 

[joe]

I think a lot of this talk about the I3 ignores the most important consideration: it's really ugly, even for an EV. Most hybrids/EVs are protests against taste in the styling department, but the I3 stands out as particularly hideous. To hear that the function (doors, etc) mostly matches the exterior styling is really disappointing

 

[winterescape]

I think a lot of this talk about the I3 ignores the most important consideration: it's really ugly, even for an EV. Most hybrids/EVs are protests against taste in the styling department, but the I3 stands out as particularly hideous. To hear that the function (doors, etc) mostly matches the exterior styling is really disappointing

I understand we are debating subjective here, but then where the heck is the new Prius or Prius Prime on your list? There is no favorable angle to photograph that thing at, take a look at the photo gallery on Toyota.com and try to find one aesthetically pleasing shot, but for gosh sakes please do not attempt this right after eating a nice meal.

 

[SeanNelson]

I understand we are debating subjective here, but then where the heck is the new Prius or Prius Prime on your list? There is no favorable angle to photograph that thing at...

Calling the goose ugly does not imply that the gander is beautiful...

 

[oilerlord]

The back doors are a pain in the butt. If you are in a parking lot with a car parked next to you you have to open the front door, stand next to the inside of the front door while opening the back door and you are squeezed between the 2 while putting anything (including kids or adult backseat passengers squeezed next to you opening the front door) in the back seat. My wife hands me packages over the top of the back door and I can't count the number of times passengers have closed the front doors 1st before the back ones.

To your point:

Yeah, I think I'll pass. Part of my routine is putting my laptop bag on the footwell behind the driver's seat. Groceries don't roll around there either. I regularly throw my tennis bag on the rear seats. Sure, I could start putting that stuff in the rear cargo area, but I don't want to. I think BMW was looking for a complex solution to a problem that didn't exist. Real doors please.

There are a lot of annoying features on the idrive system but you can attach a laptop and reprogram a lot of them. One is the 1.6 gallon range for the 2.1 gallon tank in the REX. Why they would let your car die on the side of the road with .5 gallons of gas in the tank and no AM radio for the U.S. market is a mystery. A lot are coming off lease so if you can get a good price on one it might be worth it. Check the range estimate on the dash. If you are looking at the 22Kwh battery pack version a full charge in comfort mode should be close to an 80 mile range. If it is lower it could be an indication of a loss of battery capacity.

I do like that BMW allowed 3rd party access to code the car, and change options like restoring hold mode and access to all the fuel in the tank along with having access to diagnostic error codes.

When BMW launched the i3 REx in the U.S., one of the main difference from the European version was the (usable) fuel tank capacity. Since BMW needs the i3 REx to qualify as a BEVx and one of the qualifications of the BEVx is that the car has a smaller gasoline range than it does electric range. So, to meet EPA requirements, the fuel tank capacity was reduced by .5 gallons.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Maybe instead of "suicide doors" they should be called "trample doors" or "cattle chutes" because they herd all passengers into the side of the next car over...

 

[Evoforce]

To the OP:

Well, I know that you ruled out the Nissan Leaf, but for a short term EV to get you through, it could really foot the bill for you. It is a well made car with a hatch and lots of cargo room. It is a good car to be able to transition you to your ideal EV of the future.

Older, used ones, are very inexpensive and you can find many with new replacement batteries and like new condition. While Leaf does have a battery longevity problem this will be a relatively short term car for you. With prices being so low, you may also not lose anything to depreciation during the time that you need it.

My son purchased a used one and drove it for a while until a Chevy Bolt became available. He then traded it in toward the purchase of the Bolt and received more for it than he had paid. I personally own 2 Leafs and they are very good cars with the exception of poor battery longevity and the heavy depreciation largely due to no thermal battery management.

That said, you are looking at only a few years at best before getting your next ideal EV. I really believe, in this case, a Nissan Leaf is a great transition to EV choice for you based upon what you had stated.

 

[SeanNelson]

While Leaf does have a battery longevity problem this will be a relatively short term car for you.

Here in Canada we don't have the issue of heat degradation of the battery to the same degree. But you have to be very careful buying a used Leaf because there are a ton of them being dumped here from the US. At least that's certainly the case in Vancouver.

 

[oilerlord]

To the OP:

Well, I know that you ruled out the Nissan Leaf, but for a short term EV to get you through, it could really foot the bill for you. It is a well made car with a hatch and lots of cargo room. It is a good car to be able to transition you to your ideal EV of the future.

Older, used ones, are very inexpensive and you can find many with new replacement batteries and like new condition. While Leaf does have a battery longevity problem this will be a relatively short term car for you. With prices being so low, you may also not lose anything to depreciation during the time that you need it.

I didn't consider that an EV could actually appreciate for me, but to your point it's possible. There aren't a lot of EV's where I live, and the "right" $8,000 EV could become worth $9,000 after a year of driving it. That's especially true as gas prices in my area continue to rise, people will be looking into alternatives. Today it costs about USD$3.60 per gallon of gas where I live. Diesel is over 4 bucks.

There aren't a lot of Leafs on the roads here in Alberta. I don't think it would be that difficult to flip an $8,000 car. Lots of people have $9K to blow on a whim. There aren't as many at the $25K price point.

I suppose the question is if it's worth going through the process of flipping cars; or just waiting until the Bolt's depreciation comes in further. My car might lose another $5K in a year but I could see Bolt Premier prices dropping another $8-10K. We'll see.