Charging in a garage - need venting?

[SilverLady]

My electrician has applied for permits to install an outlet and a Level 2 Clipper Creek charger.

The township inspector (NJ) just called and asked me what type of car I am charging. Apparently there is some kind of new code requiring that there be special venting required in a garage unless the car manufacturer states that no venting is required while charging the battery of that specific car. Tesla does specify somewhere that no venting is required. I cannot find this anywhere for the Chevrolet Bolt, or even a reference to it.

Does anyone know where I can get certification from Chevy that venting is not required while charging the Bolt? This would be an expensive deal breaker to have to add to a garage in addition to all the other charger costs. I have the first Bolt in town to request a permit, so I am hoping Chevy jumps on the chance to clear this up.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Lithium batteries do not outgas. The inspector must be thinking of lead acid batteries?

 

[SilverLady]

He said venting and battery charging was something in the code that they were getting strict about. He had questioned a permit for a Tesla charger, and the electrician was able to show how Tesla said no ventilation was needed to charge the Tesla. He considers Tesla the experts and now is looking for the same thing from Chevy.

I guess it is kind of like 7-up saying "no caffeine" on their label. The grape soda doesn't say it, so people assume there is caffeine and want proof before giving it to their kids.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You can probably prove it the hard way, by showing them all relevant sections of the owner's manual - which presumably does NOT say anywhere that venting precautions are needed. As noted, all lithium batteries are sealed, and venting only occurs in catastrophic overheating, right before the big fire...

 

[SilverLady]

Thanks. I have sent the car manual file to the electrician, after I read him parts that do NOT mention the need for venting. The question is whether the inspector will accept proof with a negative (if is not there it is not needed). A simple statement from Chevy would be the best solution. The inspector thinks of Tesla as the gold standard experts, and they craftily include a statement somewhere in their literature.

 

[DucRider]

You are permitting the EVSE, and it has the ability to charge multiple cars. The venting requirement is actually very old (adopted in the 1996 NEC), and battery tech has moved on.

The NEC has been modified over the years, and different jurisdictions refer to various versions (usually 2011 or 2014). The relevent setions are 625.29(C) and (D).

Most jurisdictions want to see a label on (or next to) the outlet for the EVSE. An example is here:

Even though the newer generation of batteries have overcome the need for ventilation, both the
NEC and CEC have provisions for ventilation when the situation warrants. California includes
the ventilation requirements and table in the California Building Code (CBC §1202.2) and as of
1998, in the California Electrical Code as well (CEC §625.29). The ventilation table provided
below is taken from the CEC. When a ventilation system is installed, receptacles and power outlets
should be marked “For Use with All Electric Vehicles.” When ventilation is not provided, the
EVSE, receptacles, and power outlets must be clearly marked “For Use Only with Electric Vehicles
Not Requiring Ventilation.”

https://pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/about/environment/pge/electricvehicles/ev5pt3.pdf

If you provide a city and state, I might be able to find specific requirements and verify what version of the NEC has been adopted. If your locality uses an older version, showing the updated codes to the inspector may solve all the issues he or she has with the ventilation requirements.

EDIT : reread the original post. NJ uses the 2014 NEC. Proposal 12-52 as adopted in the 2014 code has some definition changes in 625.15 (B). Your EVSE should have "Ventilation not required" on the label next to the UL listing and that should satisfy the inspector.

 

[gpsman]

Or there is the easy way.

Have your electrician put in a dryer socket.

Or an electric welding socket.

Or an NMEA 14-50 socket.

You can plug in whatever you like into that socket later.

 

[SilverLady]

The building department in my town has now rejected my permit application for the charger. They won't approve it without a statement from Chevy. So I cannot install the charger I need to power this car.

How do I get a statement from Chevrolet saying I don't need to ventilate the garage to charge the Bolt? I tried calling and kept getting switched around but no answer or anybody who seemed to understand the problem or even how the Bolt works. Is there some person at Chevy or GM that knows Bolts and can provide me with an official statement?

 

[wwhitney]

You have a persnickety and willfully ignorant building department. What version of the National Electric Code is in force in your town? The relevant portion of the 2011 NEC is 625.29(C):

625.29(C) Ventilation Not Required. Where electric vehicle nonvented storage batteries are used or where the electric vehicle supply equipment is listed or labeled as suitable for charging electric vehicles indoors without ventilation and marked in accordance with 625.15(B), mechanical ventilation shall not be required.

And Article 625 defines "electric vehicle nonvented storage batteries" as

Electric Vehicle Nonvented Storage Battery. A hermetically sealed battery, comprised of one or more rechargeable electrochemical cells, that has no provision for the release of excessive gas pressure, or for the addition of water or electrolyte, or for external measurements of electrolyte specific gravity.

So your options as I see it under the above language are:

(1) Demonstrate to the building department that the battery is Bolt is hermetically sealed with no provision for release of excessive gas pressure. I think you mentioned that ventilation isn't discussed in the Bolt manual, but perhaps the above issues are?
(2) Get a statement to the above from Chevrolet.
(3) Demonstrate that your EVSE is "listed or labeled as suitable for charging electric vehicles indoors without ventilation" and is marked by the manufacturer as "Ventilation Not Required" (the upshot of 625.15(B). What brand EVSE do you plan to use?

Good luck.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[SparkE]

(4) Apply for a permit to install a plug for an electric clothes dryer, using 8 gauge wiring and a 50 amp breaker. Have the electrician install a NEMA 14-50 plug. Then, plug in any 40 amp charger you wish.

 

[sparkyps]

(4) Apply for a permit to install a plug for an electric clothes dryer, using 8 gauge wiring and a 50 amp breaker. Have the electrician install a NEMA 14-50 plug. Then, plug in any 40 amp charger you wish.

Agree fully

Of course they are going to want to know what you are going to plug into that 14-50, even though it is none of their business. So have a story ready, "No current plans". The less information you provide them the better. When you originally applied for the permit you shouldn't even have mentioned the Chevy Bolt. It's none of their business what you plug into your EVSE any more than it is any of their business what you plan on plugging into a 110V socket you have installed in your living room.

Once the permit is approved you can make plans to install the 14-50 plug-in EVSE.

 

[wwhitney]

(4) Apply for a permit to install a plug for an electric clothes dryer, using 8 gauge wiring and a 50 amp breaker. Have the electrician install a NEMA 14-50 plug. Then, plug in any 40 amp charger you wish.

In the OP's case, with a persnickety building department that already turned down an application for installing the EVSE, I doubt that is going to fly.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[gpsman]

Is this a multi unit apartment, condo, townhome, or duplex? In only the above cases can I see them being really picky.

For a single home, detactached from others, this level of scrutiny is outrageous.

Start by explaining the differences in wet cell batteries (lead acid) and the sealed, non vented, dry batteries in the car.

Print out informarion about the code quoted here.
Ask for a supervisor. Be adament. Be persistent.
If all else fails, ask to speak at the public comments section of your next city councel meeting. Point out how behind the times your city / county is when is comes to understanding the current electric automobile technology.

Of course don't mention the words "lithium ion" as those have a bad reputation of exploding in Samsung phones, hoverboards, and some laptops on airplanes. But none of them are liquid cooled. Just don't open a can of worms with those two words.

 

[marshallinwa]

I would contact your dealership to see if they can assit you through their GM contact. I would also contact the manufacture of the EVSE that you planned buy and the Chevy recommended EVSE manufacture for assitance too. Any assitance from GM will probally have go through GMs legal department. So I wouldn't expect a fast response.

I would also contact a couple large cities in your state to see if they require ventalation to install a EVSE to charge an electric car. If they don't then that puts you in a stronger position to get the local ruling overturned.

 

[DucRider]

Here is the quandry. It's not the car the inspector should be concerned about, it's the EVSE that will be installed.

Some batteries require venting while being charged, some do not (hence the provisions, charts, and tables in the NEC).

If the EVSE and the vehicle to be charged follow the SAE J1772 standard, no charging will take place if ventilation is required and is not present.

The charging station sends a 1 kHz square wave on the contact pilot that is connected back to the protected earth on the side of the vehicle by means of a resistor and a diode (voltage range ±12.0±0.4 V). The vehicle can request a charging state by setting a resistor; using 2.7 kΩ a Mode 3 compatible vehicle is announced (vehicle detected) which does not require charging. Switching to 880 Ω the vehicle is ready to be charged and switching to 240 Ω the vehicle requests with ventilation charging in which case charging power is only supplied if the area is ventilated

This is "Status D" and the pilot signal will be 3 V (on a vehicle that does not require ventilation the pilot will be 6V).

The issue is NOT with the vehicle, but with the EVSE you are looking to install. It must have the capability to either:
A) completely refuse to charge any vehicle that needs ventilation
B) have a setting for a ventilated or non-ventilated installation

A vehicle that follows the J1772 standard will notify the EVSE that ventilation is required, and the EVSE must know whether to honor that request or refuse charging.

The permit for the EVSE should not be dependent on the car. A guest could come with an EV, a different EV may be purchased, etc. Wanting to know about the vehicle you plan to plug in is like asking to see the brand and certification of your TV, toaster, microwave, etc that will be plugged into a new branch circuit he/she is there to inspect.

Look for a label on your EVSE that deals with J1772 compliance. It may also state that "Ventilation is not required".

From my Leviton:

More detail on the J1772 standard here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

 

[wwhitney]

Look for a label on your EVSE that deals with J1772 compliance. It may also state that "Ventilation is not required".

Thanks for the photo. That's option (3) in my initial post. If the OP's EVSE is so labeled, that's probably the quickest way forward for the OP.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[user 1340]

If the Tesla meets the non-vented requirement, then tell them you're getting a Tesla in the future and are just installing the outlet now.

 

[SilverLady]

I just figured I'd post a status update.

I requested that Chevy provide me with a simple official statement saying that the vehicle can be charged without requiring venting. My dealer also requested the same thing.

I was told that even if this statement is true, it was a very difficult thing for them to provide but they are working on it. It has been about a couple weeks now, and that is all they can tell me. This brings up a lot of questions in my mind well beyond the permit issue.

Meanwhile they have not offered any options beyond using my slow charger, which essentially reduces my ability to use my Bolt from 238 miles to 35-40 miles in a day.

 

[DucRider]

I just figured I'd post a status update.

I requested that Chevy provide me with a simple official statement saying that the vehicle can be charged without requiring venting. My dealer also requested the same thing.

I was told that even if this statement is true, it was a very difficult thing for them to provide but they are working on it. It has been about a couple weeks now, and that is all they can tell me. This brings up a lot of questions in my mind well beyond the permit issue.

Meanwhile they have not offered any options beyond using my slow charger, which essentially reduces my ability to use my Bolt from 238 miles to 35-40 miles in a day.

I hope you get what you need from Chevy, but the real problem still lies with the building department and their lack of understanding of EV charging equipment. The SAE J1772 standard (used by The Bolt and all other EV's - Tesla with an adapter) provides that the EVSE will refuse to charge an EV that requires venting.

Your charging equipment will be capable of charging virtually ANY EV, and you (or a subsequent owner) could charge an EV different than the Bolt. The EVSE install/permit CANNOT be conditional on a specific vehicle as that is variable and subject to change.

What make and model of EVSE are you looking to install?
Hardwired or plug-in (NEMA 14-50?)

 

[SilverLady]

If the charger that Chevy sells meets those requirements (does anyone have specs on their charger stating this?), then Chevy should definitely know that the vehicle does not require ventilation - so they should have NO trouble giving me a couple sentences verifying this in ten minutes.

So why are they still investigating this after two weeks???

I have given a lot of information, requiring some digging with no help from GM, to our building department, but a statement from Chevy would just settle this. As far as the manual, my ICE car manual gives a lot more information on what kind of gas to put in then Chevy does about charging a new technology car. I didn't even see where the manual lists the specification on the type of battery (i.e., lithium) in the car. It calls it a high voltage battery, which can be anything.

I am looking to install a Clipper Creek HCS-50P with a Nema 14-50 plug.