Anything on the 2018 model year?

[d2170]

Bolt has a range of 238 miles because of the LG Chem battery pack. I wonder when we'll see other automakers use LG Chem battery packs to offer long-range electric cars. Has LG Chem and/or other automakers made any announcements yet ?

 

[DucRider]

Bolt has a range of 238 miles because of the LG Chem battery pack. I wonder when we'll see other automakers use LG Chem battery packs to offer long-range electric cars. Has LG Chem and/or other automakers made any announcements yet ?

The battery is just one piece that allows the Bolt to get 238 miles. The capacity and style - prismatic/pouch cells - and not the manufacturer is the primary factor.

A quick list that LG supplies batteries for:
Chevy Volt
Cadillac ELR
Chevy Spark EV
Renault Twizzy
Ford Focus Electric
Renault ZOE
Renault Fluence
Volvo XC90
Volvo V60

There are likely others, and some speculation that the 2018 LEAF will use LG since Nissan got out of the battery business.

 

[d2170]

These are the numbers to beat going forward, and it's a moving target:

Model 3 extended range $44k 310 miles: $142 per mile of range
Chevy Bolt $37.5k 238 miles: $157 per mile of range
Model 3 standard range $35k 220 miles: $160 per mile of range

Everyone else is above $240 per mile of range.

I suspect it's going to be very hard for all other automakers to beat Tesla going forward. And don't forget experts estimate GM loses about $8,000 per Bolt sold. Tesla will also have negative gross margins with the Model 3 in 2017, but towards 2H 2018 Model 3's gross margin will turn positive (they are aiming for 25% GM with volume production).

source: http://insideevs.com/310-mile-tesla-model-3-becomes-new/

 

[winterescape]

Over @ GM Authority they speculate the lack of detail on order guide for the 2018 Bolt indicates that changes are coming. I am not so sure if that is wishful thinking or just that the guy who puts together the order guide was out on vacation and did not get it finished

See all the speculation here...

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/09/what-is-coming-for-2018-chevrolet-bolt-electric-car/

 

[DucRider]

And don't forget experts estimate GM loses about $8,000 per Bolt sold. Tesla will also have negative gross margins with the Model 3 in 2017, but towards 2H 2018 Model 3's gross margin will turn positive (they are aiming for 25% GM with volume production).

source: http://insideevs.com/310-mile-tesla-model-3-becomes-new/

So unsubstantiated rumors from unnamed sources are now attributable to "experts"? Isn't the internet a wonderful thing? Repeat something often enough and it becomes a "fact". Please link to the "expert" and how that number is calculated (Does it include R&D costs? Amortized over how long? Is is strictly Labor & Materials? etc).

The article you linked to has no discussion at all on margins. Perhaps you meant it to be before your speculation on profit/loss so people would understand it was only the source for the $/mi numbers?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Isn't the internet a wonderful thing? Repeat something often enough and it becomes a "fact".

It is an interesting phenomenon for sure. I had heard it as $9k, but I never trusted that number anyway. Who knows what it really means, if anything.

 

[winterescape]

And don't forget experts estimate GM loses about $8,000 per Bolt sold. Tesla will also have negative gross margins with the Model 3 in 2017, but towards 2H 2018 Model 3's gross margin will turn positive (they are aiming for 25% GM with volume production).

source: http://insideevs.com/310-mile-tesla-model-3-becomes-new/

So unsubstantiated rumors from unnamed sources are now attributable to "experts"? Isn't the internet a wonderful thing? Repeat something often enough and it becomes a "fact". Please link to the "expert" and how that number is calculated (Does it include R&D costs? Amortized over how long? Is is strictly Labor & Materials? etc).

The article you linked to has no discussion at all on margins. Perhaps you meant it to be before your speculation on profit/loss so people would understand it was only the source for the $/mi numbers?

I think one source of the approx. $8K / car traces back to the UBS margin report published 3/18/2017 http://www.advantagelithium.com/_resources/pdf/UBS-Article.pdf

"We estimate GM loses $7.4k (EBIT) with every Bolt sold today"

The estimates are based on UBS performing a complete vehicle teardown of the Bolt and they infer the Tesla M3 costs from the Bolt components. I do however agree that the linked article fails to reference this report and only summarizes the Bloomberg data

 

[boltage]

These are the numbers to beat going forward, and it's a moving target:

Model 3 extended range $44k 310 miles: $142 per mile of range
Chevy Bolt $37.5k 238 miles: $157 per mile of range
Model 3 standard range $35k 220 miles: $160 per mile of range

Everyone else is above $240 per mile of range.

I suspect it's going to be very hard for all other automakers to beat Tesla going forward. And don't forget experts estimate GM loses about $8,000 per Bolt sold. Tesla will also have negative gross margins with the Model 3 in 2017, but towards 2H 2018 Model 3's gross margin will turn positive (they are aiming for 25% GM with volume production).

source: http://insideevs.com/310-mile-tesla-model-3-becomes-new/

Base price of the Model 3 is $36,200 including the $1,200 delivery charge.

Presumably, Tesla is hoping that most buyers will pick at least some of the expensive options, rather than buy the $36,200 base Model 3 with no options (which is a good deal for the buyer, but probably not so much for Tesla). Here are the options:

$9,000 long range battery
$5,000 Premium Upgrade Package (heated seats, leather, glass roof, etc.)
$5,000 Enhanced Autopilot
$3,000 future full self driving capability (requires Enhanced Autopilot)
$1,500 19" (instead of 18") wheels
$1,000 any color other than black

 

[iletric]

It's going to be very interesting going forward what the Bolt sales will be like now that Nissan blinked and won't be selling 60 kWh copies until next year, only the 40 kWh model.

Will people go for Leaf with 150 range vs. Bolt with 238, i.e. price vs. range, and brand vs. brand.

 

[DucRider]

It's going to be very interesting going forward what the Bolt sales will be like now that Nissan blinked and won't be selling 60 kWh copies until next year, only the 40 kWh model.

Will people go for Leaf with 150 range vs. Bolt with 238, i.e. price vs. range, and brand vs. brand.

So much depends on individuals priorities, climate, preferences.

What's the hot button?
Range
Price
Power Seats with lumbar support
Heat Pump
Thermal Management
Built in Nav
Adaptive Cruise Control
Service available within a reasonable distance/time
Supercharger vs CHAdeMO vs CCS
"Sport" vs "comfort" suspension
Sedan vs Hatchback
Brand loyalty/desirability


Shaping up to be something for (nearly) everyone (some people will always find something to complain about :roll: )

 

[user 387]

Back to the original question of this thread....

Has anyone heard of Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) being available on 2018 Bolts?

I won't buy another car without it.

 

[Pigwich]

So we ARE going to take a look at the next generation LEAF 2 next weekend..

National Drive Electric Week Event - Los Angeles
Day: Saturday, September 16, 2017
Time: 10AM - 3PM
Location: Los Angeles State Historic Park
1245 N Spring St
Los Angeles, CA 90012

Supposedly they have a LEAF 2. The 40 kwh battery seems lame nowadays though.

I'd kind of rather we get a Bolt instead of a LEAF (two Bolts in the driveway seems funny, but whatever) owing to the longer range and it being a lot less likely that accidentally forgetting to plug in the car is going to leave anybody stranded, but the little lady is itching to get rid of her gas car, and the LEAF has the Pro Pilot, which I sure like the idea of when she's driving home at god-knows-when-o-clock from the hospital after working 12 hours.

We'll see. Maybe some awesome deals will pop up on 2017 Bolts.

 

[devbolt]

Back to the original question of this thread....

Has anyone heard of Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) being available on 2018 Bolts?

I won't buy another car without it.

Chevy has not released any info regarding when the 2018 Bolts will be available, nor what content it will have. I would not count on ACC being available until they do a refresh of the Bolt in 2 or 3 years. ACC requires a radar unit of some sort and the current body doesn't have a place for it.

 

[user 387]

Chevy has not released any info regarding when the 2018 Bolts will be available, nor what content it will have. I would not count on ACC being available until they do a refresh of the Bolt in 2 or 3 years. ACC requires a radar unit of some sort and the current body doesn't have a place for it.

So is the autonomous braking in the current cars purely via the video camera in front of the rear-view mirror? It must be. Odd.

 

[SeanNelson]

I think one source of the approx. $8K / car traces back to the UBS margin report published 3/18/2017 http://www.advantagelithium.com/_resources/pdf/UBS-Article.pdf

"We estimate GM loses $7.4k (EBIT) with every Bolt sold today"

The estimates are based on UBS performing a complete vehicle teardown of the Bolt...

BUT - the article shows that something like $8K or so of the costs they've estimated for building each Bolt are "Overhead" costs. Those are fixed costs that include the R&D investment to design the Bolt and it's production process. They are NOT incurred over and over again for every new vehicle built. So the more vehicles GM builds, the more money they'll make - especially as economies of scale and technology improvements continue to drive down the direct costs.

 

[devbolt]

Chevy has not released any info regarding when the 2018 Bolts will be available, nor what content it will have. I would not count on ACC being available until they do a refresh of the Bolt in 2 or 3 years. ACC requires a radar unit of some sort and the current body doesn't have a place for it.

So is the autonomous braking in the current cars purely via the video camera in front of the rear-view mirror? It must be. Odd.

It would appear that the automatic emergency braking is dependent upon the two front mounted cameras. A radar unit offers more precise detection of objects in front for purposes of dynamic accelearation/braking as opposed to just braking hard in an emergency situation.