Anything on the 2018 model year?

[Pigwich]

This family is looking to fully ditch gas and get a second Bolt, or in a distant second place, a supposedly long range 2018 Leaf soon. We don't have the stomach to wait for a Model 3.

Does anybody know anything about the 2018 Bolt? I don't imagine there would be huge changes.

Do we wait for the 2018? If even to get a deal on a 2017?

Advice?

 

[jbrad4]

The plant that makes the Bolt probably won't crank up again after shutdown for re-tooling until the end of Aug or first part of September. I would bet that GM will send the first of the new Bolts to the 10 CARB states (Calif. Air Resources Board) to get their ZEV credits so they can sell ICE vehicles. We probably won't see any 18 Bolts here in Texas until well into 2018. That's why I bought my 2017 Bolt Premier yesterday, instead of trying to wait for an 18 MY Bolt.

 

[iletric]

Leaf 2. Definitely. Since both will be available at about the same time, you're looking at a more sophisticated car with level 2 auto driving and 8 years of experience of development and delivery of real 100% EVs.

Nissan, in other words, is way ahead of GM in the EV game. Not to mention Bolt's annoying seats and over-tightened suspension, neither of which will, guaranteed, see any improvement.

Either way, you'll get to drive and compare 2 vehicles and pick the one that fits your fancy and your needs.

 

[RickCH]

The plant that makes the Bolt probably won't crank up again after shutdown for re-tooling until the end of Aug or first part of September.

It's back up and running, some of the people with orders from up here in Canada recently got the build info on their cars with projected delivery dates at the end of the month.

 

[Anonymous]

Leaf 2. Definitely. Since both will be available at about the same time, you're looking at a more sophisticated car with level 2 auto driving and 8 years of experience of development and delivery of real 100% EVs.

Nissan, in other words, is way ahead of GM in the EV game. Not to mention Bolt's annoying seats and over-tightened suspension, neither of which will, guaranteed, see any improvement.

Either way, you'll get to drive and compare 2 vehicles and pick the one that fits your fancy and your needs.

Anything could happen, but it appears that much like the Prius Prime, the G2 Leaf is a minor improvement, not an attempt at a world beater.

Supposedly, the G2 Leaf is getting about 147hp which will give it less performance than the 120kW Volt EREVs, but more than the Prius Prime.
But the Bolt EV will mostly likely remain at the next level up in performance unless they derate it.

Predictions of 40 kWh G2 Leaf batteries are impressive only when compared to EVs from the past. Just enough range to still be difficult for long trips.

What is probably going to happen is you will spend less, drive slower, drive less distance, just like in 2017.

Just as hysterical... err... historical reference, the 2017 Leaf has not caught up with the 2011 Volt, and it looks like 2018 for Nissan will change nothing. Slower than any EV GM has made this decade.

 

[iletric]

236 pound-feet of torque

 

[LeftieBiker]

What is probably going to happen is you will spend less, drive slower, drive less distance, just like in 2017.

I'll be driving faster and much farther - more than far enough for my needs - and with Pro Pilot to boot. For me, having a comfortable, roomy, fully competent car is more important than winning stoplight drag races (although I suspect that those will be pretty close anyway).

 

[elpwr]

What is probably going to happen is you will spend less, drive slower, drive less distance, just like in 2017.

I'll be driving faster and much farther - more than far enough for my needs - and with Pro Pilot to boot. For me, having a comfortable, roomy, fully competent car is more important than winning stoplight drag races (although I suspect that those will be pretty close anyway).

And for me having the faster, longer range, sharper handling Bolt is more important than having a Leaf which is inferior in all these areas. Everyone has different priorities.

 

[user 1034]

And for me having the faster, longer range, sharper handling Bolt is more important than having a Leaf which is inferior in all these areas. Everyone has different priorities.

I'll second that motion.

 

[iletric]

More power to both of you. Your butts and backs fit the Bolt seat and you like the cabin (road) turbulence.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

And for me having the faster, longer range, sharper handling Bolt is more important than having a Leaf which is inferior in all these areas. Everyone has different priorities.

I'll second that motion.

Technically none of those things are known. The only stats that we have that would answer those are from a leak from an unknown source. I couldn't tell you how reliable that source is or is not. They are a pretty safe bet, but as-of-yet unknown.

Absolutely, everyone has different priorities. And finally, we have options to choose from!

 

[d2170]

With Chevy Bolt's range of 238 miles, how could the Leaf possibly compete if they don't at least have range of 200 miles. Same with the VW e-Golf.

 

[EldRick]

They can compete with lower pricing, bigger seats for fatties, and an American-style sloppy suspension.
And they will...

 

[SparkE]

With Chevy Bolt's range of 238 miles, how could the Leaf possibly compete if they don't at least have range of 200 miles. Same with the VW e-Golf.

Myself, personally, I don't need to carry around 60 kWh batteries. But that is for *my* usage. A guy parked his Bolt in front of my house yesterday (party down the street) and I struck up a conversation with him. A little awkward at first, because he had parked and left, and was coming back to his car when I walked out of my house to put a note on his windshield which started with "you parked in front of my house...". He was a little "oh my sorry about..." and I said "no, NO, read the rest of the note!" which was "...not a problem (really) but if you have two minutes I'd like to talk to you about EVs". (he laughed). We talked for 10-15 minutes about how much he LOVED his Bolt (and I love EVs in general). HE lives in an apartment, and the 240+ mile range was important to him, because he only charges at other places (no dedicated charge spots in his complex) so he can go an entire week without *having* to charge.

At any rate, having 200+ miles is *A* talking point, but isn't a deal-maker for everybody. I personally believe that many *families* (my situation) can easily get by with one 80-mile-range EV and a gas-o-mobile. At least 10% (and probably closer to 60%) of U.S. families with multiple cars would not be inconvenienced in the slightest by having one 80-mile EV and one gas car. Sure, more range is better, but I don't plan on using my EV to drive 800 miles. "Pick the right tool for the job". It is *possible* (and will be even easier 2 years from now, IMHO) but until there is a BETTER fast-charging network than Tesla's network (faster AND more hoses) I wouldn't consider it - I'd take a gasmobile because of ease and ubiquity and speed of refueling. Five minutes refueling during a 12-14 hour trip. And 55 mph is about the perfect use of a gasoline engine (no stop-and-go, set cruise control, just pay attention to all the morons on the road in order to avoid an accident).

I am considering the purchase of a LEAF-2 (150-ish miles range), *and/or* a Hyundai Ionic EV (125 miles range) *and/or* a Bolt *and/or* any 120+-miles-range EV. I won't *have* to decide for another 18 months or so. I may end up buying a 3-year-old just-off-lease EV for $6000, and deferring my purchase of new for another few years. (My gas-mobile is a high efficiency PZEV that is *only* 12 years old, and is only driven about 3000 miles/yr these days, almost exclusively on the freeway for long distances). For *me* an EV doesn't have to have a range of 200+ miles. I have multiple vehicles, AND I live in the SF Bay area, which is *engorged* with fast chargers and level-2 chargers. (NASA-Ames just installed *eight* DCFCs right off of US-101 in Mountain View!) So 80 miles works fine, 100 would be better, and 120-140 would be a nice cushion - for ME. IMHO, "not having a 200-mile range" does not mean that an EV will not sell well.

 

[oftheseven]

I know we're moving a little OT...but I wish I had 18 months to see how things pan out.
I leased my Bolt in April (after our eGolf was totaled) and just turned in my Cmax Energi lease.

The Ioniq looks intriguing as does LEAF2 but I might need to decide by Labor Day weekend. Hopefully, great deals pop up for a Bolt and I'll just get another one and call it a day (for the next 3 years).

As for a 2018+ Bolt. I would like some added features:
Homelink
Better window visors
Sunglass holder
Better layout of 'shifter'/cup holders
Vents for rear seats
Better location of rear turn signals (for aesthetics and possibly visibility)

 

[winterescape]

And for me having the faster, longer range, sharper handling Bolt is more important than having a Leaf which is inferior in all these areas. Everyone has different priorities.

I'll second that motion.

And I will "third" that comment. Call it childish, call it a midlife crisis, call it whatever you like but when I push the accelerator pedal in the Bolt I still get a big smile and sense of enjoyment. That alone is worth it over the Leaf 1 or projected Leaf 2. I also live in upstate NY and we have winter here, all the range estimates and what I have achieved so far for range are fantastic, but when the range falls off due to battery conditioning or passenger comfort, that extra range buffer of the Bolt will provide significant peace of mind.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I also live in upstate NY and we have winter here, all the range estimates and what I have achieved so far for range are fantastic, but when the range falls off due to battery conditioning or passenger comfort, that extra range buffer of the Bolt will provide significant peace of mind.

I live in Syracuse, NY, and have lived through several winters with an EV. My Leaf's range gets cut in half in the winter, worse during a cold snap or blizzard and that's without battery conditioning. I'm curious to see how well the Bolt holds its range in the winter. Is 119 miles the new normal? Better? Worse?

And a little more on-topic, I wonder if the 2018 Bolt will offer a heat pump for cabin heat. While that doesn't help your worst case (heat pumps lose their efficiency gain somewhere in the teens), it certainly helps your typical day.

 

[Pigwich]

And a little more on-topic, I wonder if the 2018 Bolt will offer a heat pump for cabin heat. While that doesn't help your worst case (heat pumps lose their efficiency gain somewhere in the teens), it certainly helps your typical day.

I was under the impression that cabin heating DID use the heat pump when it could - I even heard that the power electronics ran their coolant loop through the cold side of the pump in cold (or probably any weather for that matter)

I kinda hate it when cars are a black box..but I don't have the time to trace pipes. Going back off topic, should we make a Bolt WIKI?

 

[LeftieBiker]

There is no heat pump in the Bolt, just a (non-heatpump) heat scavenging system for the electronics, and a resistance heater.

 

[elpwr]

There is no heat pump in the Bolt, just a (non-heatpump) heat scavenging system for the electronics, and a resistance heater.

Yep. Exactly the same system that's used in my twice as expensive Tesla. As the traction batteries get fairly large the percentage of the battery required for cabin heat (not the actual energy usage) goes down and becomes somewhat less of an issue.