~450 Bolt EV's in Stock

[WetEV]

Like many things, both extremes are probably not the best choices.

Buying the first of anything is higher risk, probably the highest price, and surely either the funnest or most maddening. Or both.

Waiting just a bit will get the worst of the risk out of the way, will be a lower to much lower price, and almost as much fun. Less chance of annoyance.

Waiting till it turns up at a Value Village second hand thrift store is probably a bit much.

 

[leodoggie]

I'm sure in 2 years there may be a bonus tagged 2017 Bolt LT sitting around somewhere while 2019s are on the lots, but you want to wait that long?

I can buy an iPhone 5 for pennies on the dollar compared to the new price now. Does that mean the people that bought it when it first came out made mistakes?

Yes.

Despite marketing claims from Apple and Samsung, smartphones haven't been "revolutionary" since the release of the original iPhone and arguably the iPhone 4. These days, the previous model phone is fantastic, and to your point, is pennies on the dollar. God bless early gotta-have-it adopters for giving me the opportunity to own a great phone, and a fantastic EV for pennies on the dollar.

Well, if you're fine using last year's tech today to save money, that's your choice. Other people want today's tech today and are willing to spend the money to get it. Living like a ferrengi is not how all people live, nor is it the most fun way to live either.

I would view the Bolt more as an iPhone 4 than 5 though. It currently sits alone in the <$40k, 200+ mile BEV segment. Or <$50k...or <$60k.
Someone wants a new 200 mile BEV for less than $40k? There is only 1 game in town.

To me it appears that after the real EV enthusiasts the market seems pretty thin. There was a survey that said 60% of the American public don't know that plug in electric vehicles exist. Very disheartening for us that embrace renewable energy.
I would like to know how many people know who the Ferrengi are?

 

[SeanNelson]

Well, if you're fine using last year's tech today to save money, that's your choice. Other people want today's tech today and are willing to spend the money to get it.

Sure, but fewer people are willing to spend $500 on a new phone that has a couple of new features than are willing to spend the same amount on a phone that breaks barriers in several categories. And today's "new" phones fall into the former category.

And the same buying pattern can be said of electric vehicles, which is why there's so much buzz about the Bolt EV. It really does advance the state of the art much more substantially than the past few years' worth of EV models.

 

[Gatedad]

Being a Ferrengi does have its (financial)advantages, but you don't have to be the Grand Nagus either...

 

[oilerlord]

Sure, but fewer people are willing to spend $500 on a new phone that has a couple of new features than are willing to spend the same amount on a phone that breaks barriers in several categories. And today's "new" phones fall into the former category.

On this, we completely agree.

And the same buying pattern can be said of electric vehicles, which is why there's so much buzz about the Bolt EV. It really does advance the state of the art much more substantially than the past few years' worth of EV models.

But has it really?

We're still throwing 60 kWh of battery into a car to achieve 200 miles. A Model S 60 did that back in 2012. Sure, energy density is improving, and cost is coming down, but battery chemistry hasn't changed much since the original Volt, and electric motors are already approaching 100% efficiency. I'm still waiting for a real, substantive, breakthrough. Until then, we keep seeing more of the same - just in different packaging.

My 2014 EV is now three years old, and many consider it outdated tech. To that point, it sat on a Mercedes dealer lot for five months. Unloved. A forgotten hunk of old technology. Nobody wanted it. In the end, the dealer grudgingly accepted my lowball offer. So far, I've driven this car 6500 miles since June. Would those 6500 miles been "better" in a Bolt? From what I'm reading so far, I doubt it.

 

[SeanNelson]

Sure, but fewer people are willing to spend $500 on a new phone that has a couple of new features than are willing to spend the same amount on a phone that breaks barriers in several categories. And today's "new" phones fall into the former category.

And the same buying pattern can be said of electric vehicles, which is why there's so much buzz about the Bolt EV. It really does advance the state of the art much more substantially than the past few years' worth of EV models.

But has it really?

We're still throwing 60 kWh of battery into a car to achieve 200 miles. A Model S 60 did that back in 2012. Sure, energy density is improving, and cost is coming down, but battery chemistry hasn't changed much since the original Volt, and electric motors are already approaching 100% efficiency. I'm still waiting for a real, substantive, breakthrough. Until then, we keep seeing more of the same - just in different packaging.

The big difference is that after several years of rather subtle advances you can suddenly now buy a vehicle with twice the range for a similar cost. Sure, it's similar technology but with far better price/performance. Range is everything in the EV world, so yes, that in my opinion is a substantial advance, enough for me to enter the market whereas until now I've been sitting on the sidelines. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[michael]

I absolutely agree. The 200 mile class range is the quantum change. Until a month ago that cost $70k minimum, realistically $90-$100k for a well equipped car.

 

[oilerlord]

I absolutely agree that a 200 mile car at $40K is a "quantum change" in affordability. No contest on that point.

I'd argue that the "state of the art" hasn't changed much since 2012. To me, affordability and the state of the art are two separate measures. More people can afford about the same level of technology we had 5 years ago, but the changes in that technology have been at best, subtle.

Sean, you mentioned that "Range is everything in the EV world", but to be more specific, I'd say the battery is everything in the EV world. If / when LG develops a 60 kWh battery that is half the size and weight - I'd call that technological advancement a game changer, and an evolution in the state of the art. Perhaps we're decades of subtle advances away from that becoming a reality.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Sure, but fewer people are willing to spend $500 on a new phone that has a couple of new features than are willing to spend the same amount on a phone that breaks barriers in several categories. And today's "new" phones fall into the former category.

And the same buying pattern can be said of electric vehicles, which is why there's so much buzz about the Bolt EV. It really does advance the state of the art much more substantially than the past few years' worth of EV models.

But has it really?

We're still throwing 60 kWh of battery into a car to achieve 200 miles. A Model S 60 did that back in 2012. Sure, energy density is improving, and cost is coming down, but battery chemistry hasn't changed much since the original Volt, and electric motors are already approaching 100% efficiency. I'm still waiting for a real, substantive, breakthrough. Until then, we keep seeing more of the same - just in different packaging.

The big difference is that after several years of rather subtle advances you can suddenly now buy a vehicle with twice the range for a similar cost. Sure, it's similar technology but with far better price/performance. Range is everything in the EV world, so yes, that in my opinion is a substantial advance, enough for me to enter the market whereas until now I've been sitting on the sidelines. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

You guys do realize the Bolt isn't the only EV that's out or very soon to come out with a range greater than 200 miles right? Europe has their own coming out as well. The new Zoe also has a range above the 200 mile mark and also has NAV integration that should have also been standard on the Bolt (and all EV's frankly....a built-in NAV with up-to-date charging infrastructure information and distances is a must).

https://youtu.be/LEIzORzvbdQ

 

[michael]

I will be able to get a new car March 1, when my current lease expires. No way I'm going to wait around for something that might or might not be better. Model 3? Tell me when I would be able to get one. Tell me what it will cost decently equipped?

I barely care about fast charging. This thing will go 200 miles usually, 150 miles absolutely for sure. If I'm going somewhere where I would care about enroute fast charging, I'll take the Volt instead.

I could have a Bolt in my driveway tonight if I wanted to. Why on earth would I wait around for something possibly better, possibly not, available I don't know when.

If in three more years there's something better, I'll get it then.

 

[floamis]

You guys do realize the Bolt isn't the only EV that's out or very soon to come out with a range greater than 200 miles right? Europe has their own coming out as well. The new Zoe also has a range above the 200 mile mark and also has NAV integration that should have also been standard on the Bolt (and all EV's frankly....a built-in NAV with up-to-date charging infrastructure information and distances is a must).

I think the Zoe would get less than the 180 mark in the US, on our highways; but nonetheless the car looks enticing. I would strongly consider this over the Bolt if it was here in the US. I love Android Auto and google maps integration in the Bolt, but I do agree that there should be a NAV system with charging infrastructure information, like what is shown in the video with the Zoe. I hope PlugShare or someone releases an Android Auto/CarPlay app. That would be a good stop-gap.

 

[JupiterMoon]

I will be able to get a new car March 1, when my current lease expires. No way I'm going to wait around for something that might or might not be better. Model 3? Tell me when I would be able to get one. Tell me what it will cost decently equipped?

I barely care about fast charging. This thing will go 200 miles usually, 150 miles absolutely for sure. If I'm going somewhere where I would care about enroute fast charging, I'll take the Volt instead.

I could have a Bolt in my driveway tonight if I wanted to. Why on earth would I wait around for something possibly better, possibly not, available I don't know when.

If in three more years there's something better, I'll get it then.

Who's suggesting you wait for something else?

 

[michael]

You did in your post above

You guys do realize the Bolt isn't the only EV that's out or very soon to come out with a range greater than 200 miles right? Europe has their own coming out as well. The new Zoe also has a range above the 200 mile mark and also has NAV integration that should have also been standard on the Bolt (and all EV's frankly....a built-in NAV with up-to-date charging infrastructure information and distances is a must

And then you inserted a 15 minute review of the Zoe

Was that not a suggestion?

 

[EldRick]

Would you buy a Renault in the US? Seriously?

 

[JupiterMoon]

You did in your post above

You guys do realize the Bolt isn't the only EV that's out or very soon to come out with a range greater than 200 miles right? Europe has their own coming out as well. The new Zoe also has a range above the 200 mile mark and also has NAV integration that should have also been standard on the Bolt (and all EV's frankly....a built-in NAV with up-to-date charging infrastructure information and distances is a must

And then you inserted a 15 minute review of the Zoe

Was that not a suggestion?

No it was a comment to say that there are also other EVs that are breaking the 200 mile range barrier and have other features (NAV, etc) than the Bolt. Just because it's not available in the States doesn't mean it's not worth mention or isn't a worthy comparison. I never said you have to wait for Renault to bring it here.

 

[JupiterMoon]

Would you buy a Renault in the US? Seriously?

Yes sure I would why not? If they have the network to sell and service sure.

 

[SeanNelson]

Sean, you mentioned that "Range is everything in the EV world", but to be more specific, I'd say the battery is everything in the EV world. If / when LG develops a 60 kWh battery that is half the size and weight - I'd call that technological advancement a game changer, and an evolution in the state of the art. Perhaps we're decades of subtle advances away from that becoming a reality.

Well yes, the battery is certainly everything all right. But most consumers don't care about HOW the range is delivered, they just care about how much range it gives, how much it costs, and whether or not the battery impacts the usability of the car (i.e., does it compromise on storage space). So I don't think that a battery that's smaller and lighter would, by itself, have much of an impact unless it was also cheaper or unless the size reduction allowed some sort of improvement in the overall packaging of the vehicle (which it probably would).

I dunno, maybe it's just semantics. A 400-mile car for a Bolt EV price would be another big leap, but it would require either a battery breakthrough or a long series of incremental changes (in which case we'd have to wait longer).

 

[SeanNelson]

You guys do realize the Bolt isn't the only EV that's out or very soon to come out with a range greater than 200 miles right?

Unless Nissan has something up their sleeve there won't be anything else available for a similar price for the better part of a year. And when they do come out then yes, they too will be interesting to a much wider market than the 100-mile class of EVs were.

The new Zoe also has a range above the 200 mile mark...

That's based on the very optimistic NDEC testing cycle. I'm withholding judgement on the Zoe until we start to get some reports of range in the real world.

 

[michael]

You guys do realize the Bolt isn't the only EV that's out or very soon to come out with a range greater than 200 miles right?

Unless Nissan has something up their sleeve there won't be anything else available for a similar price for the better part of a year. And when they do come out then yes, they too will be interesting to a much wider market than the 100-mile class of EVs were.

The new Zoe also has a range above the 200 mile mark...

That's based on the very optimistic NDEC testing cycle. I'm withholding judgement on the Zoe until we start to get some reports of range in the real world.

The Zoe has an NEDC range of 250 miles and the Ampera-E (European Bolt) has an NEDC range of 500 km/ 310 miles.

Don't think I'll wait for it.

 

[JupiterMoon]

You guys do realize the Bolt isn't the only EV that's out or very soon to come out with a range greater than 200 miles right?

Unless Nissan has something up their sleeve there won't be anything else available for a similar price for the better part of a year. And when they do come out then yes, they too will be interesting to a much wider market than the 100-mile class of EVs were.

The new Zoe also has a range above the 200 mile mark...

That's based on the very optimistic NDEC testing cycle. I'm withholding judgement on the Zoe until we start to get some reports of range in the real world.

Frankly all testing cycles are optimistic. We'll have to see what people get with the Bolt, Zoe, etc.