2017 Chevy Bolt EV Release Date and Updates: $37k, LT & Premium Trim Levels

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NeilBlanchard said:
roundpeg said:
Is it worth owning an extra portable charge cord? Pretty pricy item at $535.

I would spend that on a Level 2 charger, instead of a second Level 1.

You only want to have to use a Level 1 charger - on any EV, let alone a 238 mile EV - in an emergency.

I disagree (but YMMV :cool: ). I don't have a level-2 charger at my home and have never had a problem. I charge it overnight - 12 hours @ 1.4kW is generally enough to MORE than give me enough miles for the coming day trip. On those occasions when I drive further than 60 miles, I either :

- use a public or work level-2 charger for a few hours to push in more electricity
- use a DCFC for 10-20 minutes

(or both).

Overnight charging is absolutely sufficient for *most* people. *IF* your commute is over 70 miles/day AND you don't have access to a level-2 near work, then a level-2 at home would obviously be recommended.
 
My family currently have a Leaf and an e-Golf, and even with a 24kWh battery, it takes essentially 24 hours to charge them to 100%, if they are nearly drained. So, if you ever go on a drive longer than ~50 miles, you would not be able to get to 100% in 12 hours. So, if you EVER drive it 200+ miles, you would have to have L2 available for that, to "catch up", so to speak.

We have no problems sharing the one L2 charger between the two EV's, and if we also get the Bolt EV (and I fully expect we will!), we will continue to share the one charger.

We lived with the Leaf for ~3-4 weeks with just the stock L1 unit, and that got challenging.
 
It's counterintuitive but a car with a larger battery can get away with a slower recharging rate.

I need a Level 2 charger for my Spark EV usage. I could get away with a Level 1 if it had 200+ miles range.
 
NeilBlanchard said:
I would spend that on a Level 2 charger, instead of a second Level 1.

You only want to have to use a Level 1 charger - on any EV, let alone a 238 mile EV - in an emergency.

I'm not sure I follow. Presumably you are referring to the DC charging option, which appears to be pretty important. I'd get that. The second I don't follow. The optional item is a second charging cable (not a charger). I guess that's for 240 AC, but I don't know, and I also don't know whether it's important to carry one of these around in the car.
 
The second I don't follow. The optional item is a second charging cable (not a charger). I guess that's for 240 AC, but I don't know, and I also don't know whether it's important to carry one of these around in the car.

I assume it's an "occasional use charger", or a 110V EVSE (110V plug, small box, J1772 with a short extension cable, like this
lcs-25p.jpg
 
roundpeg said:
Why would you need or want this? I thought the car could charge on 120v with just an extension cord.
No, there is a specialized plug type (J1772) that has some redundant safety features - ie. ground pin first to engage and last to disengage. It is used for both 120 V and 240 V charging.
When DC Fast charging, the same connector is used but 2 additional pins below the J1772 are also utilized. This is commonly referred to as CCS or Combo charging (or the Frankenplug). One of the reasons that automakers are migrating to CCS is that you don't need a completely seperate plug type. The Nissan LEAF uses CHAdeMO. If you want to purchase a CHAdeMO inlet (like found on a car), they are about $700. That cost is the primary reason there is no CHAdeMO to CCS adapter on the market that would allow CCS enabled vehicles like the Bolt to use most of the currently installed fast charging stations.
The Bolt (and all other BEV's) come with a cord that has a standard plug for your wall on one end and the J1772 on the other. It is essentially a "smart" extension cord that lets the car know how many amps it has available, it's ready to charge, etc.

You can read more about the J1772 standard here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772
 
Thanks for the detailed answer! Let me see if I understand:

1. Even with the Fast DC charging option, a Bolt driver isn't going to find many Fast DC charging options on the road because most of these charging stations are not CCS compatible? Does this make buying the Bolt's Fast DC charging option pretty much a waste of money?

2. The cord that comes with the Bolt will be for a 120v wall outlet only? You would need to buy an aftermarket cable for 240v? Do you need another for the road?
 
I think that there aren't that many people that really *need* a level-2 charger (especially if the vehicle has DCFC, as mine does). I can see it if :

- you often drive more than 60 miles in a day (more than once a week)
(and/or)
- you don't have access to *public* level-2 stations where you live (I'm spoiled, there are hundreds in a 10-mile radius of my home)
(and/or)
- you don't have easy access to a DCFC charger (again, I'm spoiled - there are over 5 in a 10-mile radius of my home, over 20 within 40 miles)
(and/or)
- you live in a place where it is VERY cold during the winter, and drive more than 20 miles to work

OR

- you have multiple electric vehicles and can only charge one at a time AND you drive a lot

I believe that for most people an overnight charge at 110V is all they need. I get 12-16 kWh overnight at 110V, which is plenty. EVEN IF for some bizarre reason I don't have a full battery the next morning, I'm not going to drive 50 miles the next day - so after the next night the battery would be fully charged. I can count on one hand the times that I have had 20 miles or less left when I got home at night. I haven't even had 10 times where my battery hasn't been fully charged in the morning when I unplug it. But then :

- I don't commute 30+ miles to work (60 round-trip)
- I use DCFC on the road when I drive more than 50 miles from home, so even on long trips I generally get home with more than 30% of charge left
- There are public charging stations out the wazoo near where I live - I could see using a 220V EVSE at home if there weren't many public level-2 chargers where you live AND you generally drive more than 50 miles a day.

I actually HAVE a level-2 EVSE, I've just never bothered to pull a 220V line out to the garage & install a plug - because I've never needed one, and it would be a pain in the ass. (Yes, my house is so old that it doesn't have a grounded 220V plug in the garage.) If I ever get a second BEV, then I'd think about doing the work. But I probably wouldn't end up doing it, because I can park at a public EVSE for a couple of hours (or use a DCFC for 15 minutes) when the battery is really low and then finish the charge overnight at home.
 
roundpeg said:
Thanks for the detailed answer! Let me see if I understand:

1. Even with the Fast DC charging option, a Bolt driver isn't going to find many Fast DC charging options on the road because most of these charging stations are not CCS compatible? Does this make buying the Bolt's Fast DC charging option pretty much a waste of money?
There's not many chademo fast charging stations, either.

See here: https://na.chargepoint.com/charge_point

2. The cord that comes with the Bolt will be for a 120v wall outlet only? You would need to buy an aftermarket cable for 240v?

Yes, but not just a cable. You need to buy an EVSE and have it installed in your parking area for 240v charging. They're about $400-$600 and It comes with the J1772 cable attached.

Do you need another for the road?
You don't need another cable because all the charge points in America have the cable attached to them. Apparently in Europe the customer is expected to bring their own cable.
 
SparkE said:
- you don't have access to *public* level-2 stations where you live (I'm spoiled, there are hundreds in a 10-mile radius of my home)
(and/or)
- you don't have easy access to a DCFC charger (again, I'm spoiled - there are over 5 in a 10-mile radius of my home, over 20 within 40 miles)
(and/or)
- There are public charging stations out the wazoo near where I live - I could see using a 220V EVSE at home if there weren't many public level-2 chargers where you live AND you generally drive more than 50 miles a day.
Where on earth do you live that charging stations are so numerous?

In Texas, there are literally only 50 chademo+DCFC stations in the entire state. There's only 8 in Austin, and none at all in San Antonio. These aren't podunk towns, either. All of these are in Walmart parking lots, at dealerships (and thus not really public) or at Supercharger stops on the freeways. Even counting public L2 chargers, there's not that many and they're either downtown in pay parking lots, or at Walmart or a Dealer.

There's absolutely no way you could live where I do without a charger of your own or one you could reliably use at work. My DRIVE to the closest L2 is 5 miles each way. The closest DCFC is 10 miles away and isn't between me and work.
 
roundpeg said:
Thanks for the detailed answer! Let me see if I understand:

1. Even with the Fast DC charging option, a Bolt driver isn't going to find many Fast DC charging options on the road because most of these charging stations are not CCS compatible? Does this make buying the Bolt's Fast DC charging option pretty much a waste of money?

2. The cord that comes with the Bolt will be for a 120v wall outlet only? You would need to buy an aftermarket cable for 240v? Do you need another for the road?
1) I will not ever (again) buy or lease an EV without a fast charge option. Virtually every new DCFC unit installed will handle CCS, so the options will continue to grow. You can look at https://www.plugshare.com/ and use the filters ("more options") for EV Plug (J1772), CCS DCFC, etc.

2) It is much more than a cord/cable. L1 (120 V) EVSE's (Electric Vehicle Service Equipment) are fitted with a standard household plug. L2 (240 V) EVSE's can either be hardwired or fitted with a plug (depending on the type of 240 V outlet installed/available).
 
c1987 said:
Fully loaded with fees and tax is looking like $50K.

Not quite, but damn close. A Bolt Premier in Kinetic Blue Metallic (extra $395) with the DC Fast charging ($750), Driver Confidence II ($495), & Infotainment packages ($485) plus destination ($875) is going to be $43,905 before sales tax. Sales tax in CA will push that to somewhere around $47,850 or thereabouts. At least floor mats are included.
 
roundpeg said:
Thanks for the detailed answer! Let me see if I understand:

1. Even with the Fast DC charging option, a Bolt driver isn't going to find many Fast DC charging options on the road because most of these charging stations are not CCS compatible? Does this make buying the Bolt's Fast DC charging option pretty much a waste of money?

2. The cord that comes with the Bolt will be for a 120v wall outlet only? You would need to buy an aftermarket cable for 240v? Do you need another for the road?

First, some vocabulary... the way most people use it in the U.S. (technically, not 100% correct, but people often say it this way) :

* level-1 charging : charging from a 110/120V plug (generally, but not always, at home). Provides a 900-1400 watt charge, overnight 9-14 kWh.

* level-2 charging : charging from 208-240V. Most (but not all) public charging stations are these. Generally provides a 3.6-7.2 kW charge. (This depends both on the station and the vehicle - for eample, some cars will only charge at 3.3kW even if more current is available). So charging for 2 hours at a level-2 station which is providing electricity at a rate of 7 kW would give you about 14 kWh. (Not all of that would end up in the battery as there is some some loss, but let's not nit-pick.)

* DCFC : also called fast charging. In the U.S., the car will need a fast-charge port (different from, or added onto, the level-2 port) ; CHAdeMO (Japanese) and CCS/Combo/SAE (most other cars). (Teslas use a third type, but I won't go into that.)

* to be technically correct, the thing you (generally) plug into your car is an EVSE, not a 'charger' (except for DCFC, which are chargers) - but most people say 'charger' to mean an EVSE. The EVSE provides current to the charger that is in the car, and the charger (in the car) determines the max charging rate for your vehicle. DCFCs by-pass the on-board charger and are full chargers themselves and provide current directly to the battery.

Now, concerning your questions:
1) If you have DCFC on your Bolt, you will have the CCS/Combo/SAE receptacle. Although there are currently more CHAdeMO chargers in the U.S. (due to the early popularity of the LEAF), there are still a lot of CCS chargers. Most new DCFCs being installed are 'multi-standard' chargers that have both CHAdeMO *and* CCS plugs, so they can charge almost any vehicle (not addressing Teslas here). There are some CCS-only chargers being installed these days, but they tend to be lower-charge-rate (24 kW or less, compared to the 45-50 kW 'full' DCFCs). There are very, very few CHAdeMO-only chargers being installed in North America these days (most of them at Japanese auto dealerships). To put it a lot more simply - there are a LOT of DCFCs with CCS plugs (well, depending on where you live). If you live in an area which mandated low- or no- emission vehicles, (e.g., battery electrics) then you probably have a reasonable # of DCFCs available. The Western and Eastern coasts are where a lot of the DCFCs are at the moment (N of Virginia, at any rate). You really want to use PlugShare (either plugshare.com, or download their smartphone app). You can see a map with just CCS DCFCs by setting the 'filter' parameters. Repeat : you really, really want to use plugshare to FIND the stations. The different charging companies/networks also have their own apps that will show you which stations are available (currently being used or not, broken or not, etc.) : EVgo, ChargePoint, Blink, and Aeroironment, SemaCharge, Greenlots, etc. Personally, I think that the DCFC option is very, very useful. If you EVER think you'll drive the car more than 200 miles in one trip, you will want a DCFC. That includes a round-trip of 100 miles someplace, and back in the same day (although you could argue that a level-2 charge for 2 hours would get you home, I think the DCFC offers peace of mind).

2. The cord that comes with the Bolt will be for a 120v wall outlet only? You would need to buy an aftermarket cable for 240v? Do you need another for the road?

Well, I don't KNOW what they will deliver with the Bolt, but most car companies deliver a 110/220V EVSE with the car, so I would expect GM to do the same. If you want faster charging, then you would want to buy a 240V level-2 EVSE. There is a company that makes an automatic-sensing 110-240V EVSE, so you get a faster charge if you have 220V available, but can still use it to charge with a 110V socket. (The TurboCord, already mentioned.) Unfortunately, it uses a weird-ass plug that you probably won't find (for 240V charging), so you'll need an adapter - and maybe even several if you want to use it on the road. (Yes, the NEMA 6-20 plug is a 'standard', but I don't think many homes have them - you'll need an adapter cable.) If you want a 240V (level-2) EVSE at home, you can get either a plug version or a hard-wired version. If your house was built over 25 years ago, there's a good chance you'll need electrical modifications to get a 'modern' receptical in the garage (and you may want an adapter cable in any case for on-the-road use). You'll need to go look in the garage and see what sort of receptacle(s) you have available. Look here for North American standards : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_nomenclature
 
Where on earth do you live that charging stations are so numerous?

In Texas, there are literally only 50 chademo+DCFC stations in the entire state. There's only 8 in Austin, and none at all in San Antonio. These aren't podunk towns, either. All of these are in Walmart parking lots, at dealerships (and thus not really public) or at Supercharger stops on the freeways. Even counting public L2 chargers, there's not that many and they're either downtown in pay parking lots, or at Walmart or a Dealer.

There's absolutely no way you could live where I do without a charger of your own or one you could reliably use at work. My DRIVE to the closest L2 is 5 miles each way. The closest DCFC is 10 miles away and isn't between me and work.

I live in the San Francisco Bay area. If you want a good cry, go to plugshare.com, zoom the map to the SFBayArea and set the filters to DCFC and CCS-plugs-only, all networks (or just ChargePoint & EVgo & Blink). I don't think there's a single 10-mile stretch south of SF where there aren't at least 2 DCFCs available, and there are generally at least 3 in any 5-mile radius (the East Bay around Hayward is the big exception). And I'm almost positive that there are over 1000 level-2 public chargers (not counting the work employee-only chargers) between San Jose and San Francisco. Then zoom out and look at the entire state and see that a Bolt can drive just about anywhere in the state and even from Tijuana (MX) to Seatle, and even Reno and lake Tahoe.

I wasn't kidding when I said I was 'spoiled' (there are two DCFCs less than a mile from my home, one I drive past on the way to the interstate). Most places NOT on the coasts have DCFCs extremely highly concentrated around one or two cities, and that's it. I think that it would be very painful to drive a Bolt from LA to Texas as it stands today (requiring multiple overnight stops in the 'dead' areas).
 
The car comes standard with a portable 120V EVSE cord set. You are pretty much limited to 1.44 kW from a standard 120V wall socket (12A * 120V = 1.44 kW). You do not want anything else plugged into the same circuit other than maybe a 60W bulb. Even though the wall socket is rated at 15A, anytime you have a high-load for an extended period of time, you are supposed to de-rate the circuit by 20%. So a 15A circuit becomes a 12A circuit, a 20A circuit becomes 16A, etc.

There are some portable L2 EVSE's that are designed to plug into a 240V/20A wall socket, or a 30A 240V dryer socket with the right adapters. These are generally limited to 16A, however, which means only 3.84 kW. My 30A L2 EVSE at home is hard-wired to a 40A circuit breaker, and will deliver up to 7.2 kW, which is the max that the Bolt can draw.
 
Getting back to the original topic:

I ordered a Bolt last night at a local Bay Area dealership. I went with a Bolt Premier in Kinetic Blue Metallic (extra $395) with the DC Fast charging ($750), Driver Confidence II ($495), & Infotainment packages ($485). Total price with destination ($875) is going to be $43,905 before sales tax, etc.

This was not me putting my name on an interest list at a local dealership, but actually entering an order into GM's system, putting down a $1000 deposit and getting an order number. They had complete pricing information on packages, special paint, etc. Estimated delivery is 4 to 6 weeks, depending upon when GM actually starts production of the car, and more specifically, when they start making my car. But first I need to get assigned a Target Production Week. If production of my car starts on a monday or tuesday, car should be on the dealer's lot 3 weeks from start of production. If it starts on a wednesday or later, time frame is pushed out another week. I'm hoping to have the car by the end of December to take advantage of the tax credit this tax year and not have to wait a year.
 
devbolt said:
I ordered a Bolt last night at a local Bay Area dealership. I went with a Bolt Premier in Kinetic Blue Metallic (extra $395) with the DC Fast charging ($750), Driver Confidence II ($495), & Infotainment packages ($485). Total price with destination ($875) is going to be $43,905 before sales tax, etc.

This was not me putting my name on an interest list at a local dealership, but actually entering an order into GM's system, putting down a $1000 deposit and getting an order number.
May I ask which Bay Area dealership, and if you negotiated a purchase price?

I have one offer so far to put in an order for a $500 deposit, with a purchase at MSRP. I'm hoping there might be a better deal.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
devbolt said:
I ordered a Bolt last night at a local Bay Area dealership. I went with a Bolt Premier in Kinetic Blue Metallic (extra $395) with the DC Fast charging ($750), Driver Confidence II ($495), & Infotainment packages ($485). Total price with destination ($875) is going to be $43,905 before sales tax, etc.

This was not me putting my name on an interest list at a local dealership, but actually entering an order into GM's system, putting down a $1000 deposit and getting an order number.
May I ask which Bay Area dealership, and if you negotiated a purchase price?

I have one offer so far to put in an order for a $500 deposit, with a purchase at MSRP. I'm hoping there might be a better deal.

Cheers, Wayne

Stewart Chevrolet Cadillac in Colma. No discount off of MSRP. I contacted 6 different dealerships, none were offering discounts off of MSRP. Even Capitol Chevrolet, which has the bulk of allocations for the area (110), wasn't discounting.
 
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