Bolt too expensive for me

[Anonymous]

Look, I was enthusiastic as hell to see an American vehicle with 238 miles on a charge. I looked at at the prelim price of $33.5k and then it became $37.5k. With all the goodies and proper cables to (hook up at home for another grand U.S.), we are looking at $43,500 U.S. Even with the $7k credit from U.S. Government, it is quite expensive and in my opinion, still not competitive with gas vehicles. If electric is to be competitive, it has to stand on its own. Subsidizing is not a true measure of competition. In summary, when I look at a Bolt, I do not see a $43,500 car. I see a $20,000 car and a $23,000 battery pack and fixings/harness. And it even gets worse when you hear that this $23,500 battery pack is made in South Korea. They make out 3/1 profit, and we lose. Sorry. :evil:

 

[cyaopec]

Look, I was enthusiastic as hell to see an American vehicle with 238 miles on a charge. I looked at at the prelim price of $33.5k and then it became $37.5k. With all the goodies and proper cables to (hook up at home for another grand U.S.), we are looking at $43,500 U.S. Even with the $7k credit from U.S. Government, it is quite expensive and in my opinion, still not competitive with gas vehicles. If electric is to be competitive, it has to stand on its own. Subsidizing is not a true measure of competition. In summary, when I look at a Bolt, I do not see a $43,500 car. I see a $20,000 car and a $23,000 battery pack and fixings/harness. And it even gets worse when you hear that this $23,500 battery pack is made in South Korea. They make out 3/1 profit, and we lose. Sorry. :evil:

You get an LT with DCFC charging for about 32k in Southern California. 10k of your own tax dollars that have been withheld from your W-2 earnings are then used to bring the post-tax cost down to 22k. That's a far cry from your 43,500 price.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

You get an LT with DCFC charging for about 32k in Southern California. 10k of your own tax dollars that have been withheld from your W-2 earnings are then used to bring the post-tax cost down to 22k. That's a far cry from your 43,500 price.

Has anyone bought (not leased) a Bolt for $32k before incentives?

 

[WetEV]

a $23,000 battery pack and fixings/harness.

Source please.

GM has said the battery cells cost $145/kWh. With a 60kWh battery that is somewhere $9000.

Add in case, battery management and such and the cost is up to somewhere around $10,000.

 

[cyaopec]

You get an LT with DCFC charging for about 32k in Southern California. 10k of your own tax dollars that have been withheld from your W-2 earnings are then used to bring the post-tax cost down to 22k. That's a far cry from your 43,500 price.

Has anyone bought (not leased) a Bolt for $32k before incentives?

Why exclude incentives? Just wait until July 4th weekend or Memorial Day. Right now there are a bunch of Bolts in Southern California for 34k. Subtract my 2k on my GM MasterCard and that's 32k. I do admit you might need to add 750 for DCFC. So perhaps closer to 33k is the reality. But subtract 10k in tax incentives and that's still only 23k. EDIT--the base Bolts were at 32k before any incentives. My local dealer was having a 72 hour Drive Pink Sale. They're now back up to 34k.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

You get an LT with DCFC charging for about 32k in Southern California. 10k of your own tax dollars that have been withheld from your W-2 earnings are then used to bring the post-tax cost down to 22k. That's a far cry from your 43,500 price.

Has anyone bought (not leased) a Bolt for $32k before incentives?

Why exclude incentives? Just wait until July 4th weekend or Memorial Day. Right now there are a bunch of Bolts in Southern California for 34k. Subtract my 2k on my GM MasterCard and that's 32k. I do admit you might need to add 750 for DCFC. So perhaps closer to 33k is the reality. But subtract 10k in tax incentives and that's still only 23k. EDIT--the base Bolts were at 32k before any incentives. My local dealer was having a 72 hour Drive Pink Sale. They're now back up to 34k.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was referring to federal/state tax incentives. I exclude them because you count them on top of the $32k price to get down to $22k. GM incentives are valid of course.

 

[SparkE]

Splitting off thread that veered into new topic ... (all the above posts).

 

[ScooterCT]

I think the OP was being generous, because when I look at the cramped, poorly equipped, hard-tired, bad-seated econobox we call the Bolt, I see a $15,000 car that would still need incentives to make a normal person buy it (incentives because it comes with severe range, refueling and comfort constraints compared to an ICE vehicle).

Yes, I did just suggest Bolt buyers are not normal. But I mean that in a very nice way. They're adventurous leading adopters who believe in an EV future and are trying to be part of the solution, not the problem. So kudos to all. But the Bolt is still a $15,000 stripper econobox underneath the EV bits. I like it anyway - I think it has a charm all it's own. And if they fix the seats I still might buy a 2018.

 

[cyaopec]

I think the OP was being generous, because when I look at the cramped, poorly equipped, hard-tired, bad-seated econobox we call the Bolt, I see a $15,000 car that would still need incentives to make a normal person buy it (incentives because it comes with severe range, refueling and comfort constraints compared to an ICE vehicle).

Yes, I did just suggest Bolt buyers are not normal. But I mean that in a very nice way. They're adventurous leading adopters who believe in an EV future and are trying to be part of the solution, not the problem. So kudos to all. But the Bolt is still a $15,000 stripper econobox underneath the EV bits. I like it anyway - I think it has a charm all it's own. And if they fix the seats I still might buy a 2018.

Oh, come on. A white Bolt (with the interior lighting package) is the closest thing to a Star Trek shuttle craft there is!

 

[ScooterCT]

Like I said, I think it has a certain charm. I saw it in a gorgeous deep red at one show and loved it on the spot.

Then I got to know it better, and suddenly didn't love it so much that I needed to put a ring on it. The Bolt could use a semester at charm school.

 

[EldRick]

ScooterCT > Disliking the car as much as you do, why do you continue posting on the forum?
Not meaning to sound snotty, just curious...

 

[ScooterCT]

I've said many times, I like the Bolt a lot, and I still do. I'm a Bolt fan. I'm not necessarily a GM fan.

It's very fanboyish to demand that every posting on the forum absolutely adore everything about the Bolt, and totally dismiss it's defects. There's a place for tough love. I have tough love for the Bolt. I think that's far superior to unconditional adoration. Things don't improve without fact-based criticism.

I've had three Miatas. Love them to death. Ask me about my Miata's flaws, and I have list a page long. Love my wife's Soul+. I have a somewhat shorter list of flaws. Ask me about me. I like me, but I have a list of flaws I'm happy to share about me.

The Bolt forum is not the exclusive territory of Bolt fanboys. The Miata forum is not the exclusive territory of Miata fanboys (go check it out).

 

[ScooterCT]

EldRic - After some thought, I think you're question "why are you posting on this forum if you don't like the Bolt?" is a really, really good question and a great topic of discussion that might educate us all on good online citizenship.

But I don't want to hijack this thread. So I created a new thread "Who belongs on this forum", and I encourage you to stop over and share your thoughts.

 

[oilerlord]

I think the OP was being generous, because when I look at the cramped, poorly equipped, hard-tired, bad-seated econobox we call the Bolt, I see a $15,000 car that would still need incentives to make a normal person buy it (incentives because it comes with severe range, refueling and comfort constraints compared to an ICE vehicle).

Yes, I did just suggest Bolt buyers are not normal. But I mean that in a very nice way. They're adventurous leading adopters who believe in an EV future and are trying to be part of the solution, not the problem. So kudos to all. But the Bolt is still a $15,000 stripper econobox underneath the EV bits. I like it anyway - I think it has a charm all it's own. And if they fix the seats I still might buy a 2018.

Geez, Scoot...why don't you really let us know how you feel about the car, and this time; don't mince words

You pretty much nailed it. The Bolt (and most EV's) are a glass-half-full / glass-half-empty propositions depending on the buyer. Presently, 99% of the car buying public view the Bolt with the glass empty while only 1% see the glass full. As much as GM would have us believe that the Bolt is an "affordable" car, other similar non-electric choices that really are affordable present themselves. In terms of monthly sales figures of only ~1000 cars per month - we're seeing this play out right before our eyes.

I think we sometimes confuse getting good value with something that's low price and/or affordable. Being green isn't cheap, but rather is usually the choice to pay more. "Normal" people don't happily pay twice as much for something that does the job at half the price. Case in point was my $550 electric lawnmower. I could have simply followed the crowd (and perhaps the OP) and bought a gas mower for $250-$300. For me, it was worth it but most normal people probably think that I paid too much. The reality is that they aren't wrong, but they aren't necessarily "right" either.

I suppose value is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[WetEV]

"Normal" people don't happily pay twice as much for something that does the job at half the price. Case in point was my $550 electric lawnmower. I could have simply followed the crowd (and perhaps the OP) and bought a gas mower for $250-$300.

Breakeven point for an electric lawnmower is about 5 years. No gas, no oil, no plugs, no filters... It is not necessarily paying more.

 

[oilerlord]

Breakeven point for an electric lawnmower is about 5 years. No gas, no oil, no plugs, no filters... It is not necessarily paying more.

Check your math again. I could have saved $275 (or more) going with a gas mower. A gallon of gasoline currently costs $3.78 where I live, and would easily get me though a summer of mowing the lawn. Over the 25 years with my previous mower, I never had to change a plug, and only occasionally had to clean the filter.

My "breakeven" point is over 72 years - and that doesn't include replacement batteries, or cost per kWh.

 

[LeftieBiker]

We've had the same electric mower (B&D CMM1000/1200) for something like 15 years. It's cost us one battery pack and one blade - parts only, labor free during a recall. Don't you value your own time not spent pouring gas, buying gas, changing plugs, etc? I do. We broke even at about 5 years. Our cost was also about $400, not $550.

 

[WetEV]

My "breakeven" point is over 72 years - and that doesn't include replacement batteries, or cost per kWh.

I used about a gallon of gas a month, and mowing season goes from March to October, sometimes longer. It takes me about 5 or 6 battery charges to mow the lawn. Change oil and filters yearly, spark plugs every 3 or 4 years.

I suspect you have a much shorter mowing season, and a much smaller yard.

 

[oilerlord]

I used about a gallon of gas a month, and mowing season goes from March to October, sometimes longer. It takes me about 5 or 6 battery charges to mow the lawn. Change oil and filters yearly, spark plugs every 3 or 4 years.

I suspect you have a much shorter mowing season, and a much smaller yard.

This is what drives me nuts about this forum.

Instead of just going the humble route, and admitting that you may have got it wrong, some people here would rather strawman or spin a losing argument - even though it isn't at all relevant to the point I'm making: Sometimes we choose to spend more to be green.

Based on size, it takes me about an hour to mow both mine, and my neighbor's lawn. I'm guessing that's about typical regardless of where you live. Even if my season was twice as long, and it took 2 gallons of gas, that's ~8 bucks per year. Five years of "savings" is $40 + $20 in 2-stroke oil. You can spin it every way from Sunday, but no way, no how is ROI 5 years given my example of what I paid going electric ($550) vs what I could have paid ($275) going gas.

Again, you conveniently ignore the cost of the batteries in your "breakeven point". It costs $298 for a replacement battery for my mower, that I assume will have to be replaced around 5 years down the road. You can buy another $300 mower for the price of one battery.

Hey, what if I simply bought a push mower...or a super-cheapie B&D mower. Perhaps it would cost less to rent a goat? See where I'm going with this? Please stop the damn spin.

It's ok to get it wrong once in a while. It really is. It's painful, but people will respect you for admitting it.

 

[sgt1372]

Batteries are expensive.

Had to pay $67 for a pair of 18v DeWalt batteries for a drill. Going to have to pay $68 for a 24v Black & Decker battery for my hedge trimmer and am going to have to pay at least $73 for a pair of 18v batteries for my Ryobi tools too.

And these are just consumer product batteries, not a huge 60kwh EV battery. I should go back to just using corded tools and "plug-in." LOL!!!