roundpeg
Well-known member
Share here the trim line and options you bought, from which dealer, and how much you paid above or below MSRP!
How Much I Paid for My Bolt
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devbolt
Well-known member
Obviously I haven't paid yet or gotten a car, but I did order the following from Stewart Chevrolet Cadillac in Colma (San Francisco Bay Area).
Bolt Premier: $40,905
Kinetic Blue Metallic: $395
DC Fast charging : $750
Driver Confidence II: $495
Infotainment packages: $485
Destination: $875
Total: $43,905 before sales tax, title or doc fees.
Dealer is charging MSRP. I contacted 6 different dealerships all around the Bay Area and nobody was budging on price. All were MSRP.
Bolt Premier: $40,905
Kinetic Blue Metallic: $395
DC Fast charging : $750
Driver Confidence II: $495
Infotainment packages: $485
Destination: $875
Total: $43,905 before sales tax, title or doc fees.
Dealer is charging MSRP. I contacted 6 different dealerships all around the Bay Area and nobody was budging on price. All were MSRP.
roundpeg
Well-known member
Claimed one of the first allocation available to my local dealer, which was just a handful of cars.
Premier
Arctic Blue exterior
Galvanized/Sky Cool interior
Fast DC Charging
@MSRP should be $42,530.00, including destination.
Delivers in December, they believe.
Premier
Arctic Blue exterior
Galvanized/Sky Cool interior
Fast DC Charging
@MSRP should be $42,530.00, including destination.
Delivers in December, they believe.
oilerlord
Well-known member
Are you guys buying or leasing?
ssspinball
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2016
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I will almost certainly be leasing as car technology (powertrain + autonomous driving) is changing at the fastest rate in the history of the automobile and it makes economic sense to take advantage of EV rebates multiple times while they still exist.
oilerlord
Well-known member
ssspinball said:
Good call. I wonder how many folks are going to outright buy the car, and further, if this EV's resale value will hold - or drop like a stone like other compliance cars. I'm guessing it will be the latter. In a couple of years, If it's value drops by 50% (or more), it would become the used car deal of the century.
oilerlord said:
I think it's a big mistake to buy at EV at this time. Lease and let the manufacturer and/or bank take the risk of huge depreciation due to product improvements. And as pointed out above, take advantage of the tax benefits...they won't last much longer
roundpeg
Well-known member
michael said:
You can't escape this problem simply by leasing, since the residual value of the car at the end of the lease is part of the deal. You are paying for the depreciation by other means. No free lunches.
So most likely I won't lease, unless the dealer makes me an offer that looks really good. Got a few weeks to think about that.
Sometimes you can. It is not unusual on EV's for manufacturer leases to have an artificially high residual (one of the ways they lower monthly payments). It can be cheaper (but no guarantees) to lease for 3 years, then negotiate a lower price (true market value) to purchase the car at the end of the lease.roundpeg said:
It's not likely that GM will be doing this when demand is high, but worth looking at before deciding. Anything above about a 41% residual on a 36 mo 12K per year lease I would consider artificially high.
roundpeg
Well-known member
DucRider said:
It seems pretty unlikely that they'd subsidize the purchase on a lease when they aren't offering any incentives to cash buyers.
roundpeg
Well-known member
new2evs said:
That's the other thing, you don't get them. I believe the leasing company does. They should apply the credits towards reducing your monthly payment but there's no guarantee you will get full value for them. What happens to the state credits (if your state offers them) is unclear. Maybe someone knows.
If you lease the vehicle, the leasing company is the actual purchaser and receives the Federal Tax Credit (and should pass it on to you as a capitalized cost reduction on the lease).roundpeg said:
You can still get the California rebate if you lease, but the lease must be for at least 30 mos. Note that income caps were lowered effective Nov 1st, and at the same time the additional rebate amount for lower income households was increased from $1,500 to $2,000.
https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/income-eligibility
At this writing, the Bolt is NOT on the list of approved vehicles, but it should be by the time it is delivered (and you have 18 mos to apply for the rebate)
In Colorado, there is a State Tax credit that is changing in 2017. Currently the Bolt would be eligible for $6000. The formula is 1% per kWh of battery (so 60% on the Bolt) times purchase price (less fed tax credit) or times total lease payments. The max allowed is $6000.
As of January 1, it changes to a flat rate $5000 for a purchase or $2500 for a lease. It becomes transferable to the seller and will be deducted at the time of purchase/lease instead of waiting for your taxes. They also changed it so used cars are not eligible (any EV never registered in CO qualifies under the current law).
Several other States have incentives. Check your State here:
https://pluginamerica.org/why-go-plug-in/state-federal-incentives/
roundpeg
Well-known member
I've never leased (or even had a car loan) but it seems to me most people who do are working towards a manageable monthly payment rather than total cost of ownership. If the leasing company doesn't play it straight with the tax credit this seems like an invitation for a ripoff. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems like leasing is a bad way to go. With the depreciation built in it seems like you can't possibly come out ahead unless the car depreciates faster than the leasing company assumes.
SparkE
Well-known member
roundpeg said:
My (fairly) recently acquired EV (no, it's not a TDI :lol: ) is the *only* car I've ever leased - every other car I've saved for (for years) and paid cash (whether used or new). I decided to lease the EV because :
- I really wanted an EV, but wanted to 'get my toes wet' on my first EV to see if it fit me (I didn't want a $30K car that I didn't like 10 months later).
- I was (a) worried about battery longevity over the lifetime of the vehicle, and (b) the technology is changing SUPER fast and I didn't want to get 'stuck' with half the range I'd get 2 years later (which turned out to be 8 months later, not two years :mrgreen: )
- it was really, really inexpensive : $89/mo ($97/mo incl. tax). All monthly payments + the down payment MINUS the $2500 CA rebate to lease means that I am paying about $60/mo over 3 years (which was less than I was paying for gas).
So far I am very happy with my decision (leasing), and with my choice (Spark EV). We still have an ICE vehicle but it hardly gets driven (generally for trips over 70 miles where there's no convenient DCFC en route). We've put about 1000 miles on the ICE in the past 7 months (two 300+ mile round-trips) compared to about 5000 miles on the EV.
I don't know if I'd lease or buy a Bolt, or even if I'll end up with one. I really like what I've heard over the past few months, but ... I'll wait to hear what problems might arise (completely new model and all), and test drive it a time or two, and see what the actual prices will be. At that point, I'll have to compare the price for a Bolt to what it would cost to get a used EV in good shape. It turns out that we don't often drive more than 40 miles in a day, so paying $25-35K for twice the mileage isn't that compelling of an argument for us. If I can get a used Spark EV for $9K, I'd probably go that route.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
new2evs said:
I'm curious to see where GM goes with this.
When I leased my Leaf, I cross-shopped with a Volt. At the time, I needed to lease if I wanted to get the tax credit at all. (I had just purchased a PV system, and as a result owed no taxes for the next two years!) Nissan gave me the tax credit in full as a cap cost reduction. GM took the entire credit for themselves, and tacked it onto the residual. The net effect for a simple lease was the same. The difference came if you wanted to buy out the lease. GM basically wanted me to pay them the extra $7500 at the end of the lease. Naturally, I went with the Leaf. It paid double dividends because Nissan offered me an additional $5k off the residual to buy out the lease (the Leaf has depreciated far faster than Nissan had expected, and lease returns are difficult to resell profitably).
We don't know what GM will do with the Bolt, but maybe people can post details of their deals on this thread. Basically, what is the down payment, monthly payment, and residual? it will be obvious whether they are passing on the tax credit or keeping it for themselves.
Exactly.roundpeg said:
Leasing usually only makes sense if you do not plan on purchasing the car. If you are looking at it as a way to finance with intent to purchase, it will almost always cost you more than conventional financing (and certainly more than paying cash).
The exception to this can occur if the residual is too high - either by miscalculation on the finance company or by "hidden" incentives by the manufacturer (they want to advertise a great lease rate, but not discount the price of the car). In this situation, you must be willing to turn the car in at the end of the lease, but hope to negotiate a purchase price lower that the residual in the lease contract. Nissan would up offering up to $7,000 off the residual purchase price (before any negotiation) on the LEAF as the real market value is far below the residual.
If the car is turned in at the end of the lease, it must be reconditioned and then sold - at the wholesale/trade in price. Either to the dealer where the car was turned in or more likely at auction. It costs the finance company (usually Ally Financial Services - formerly GMAC - for GM brands) to do this, so there is some negotiating room.
If you want to own the car, leasing is usually not the cheapest way, but your monthly payment for the first years will be lower. Similar in some ways to a home mortgage with a balloon payment.
Our Fit EV is the first car we've financed since 1986. Not sure if we'll pay cash for the Bolt or lease it (depends at least partly on the lease terms). I'm leaning towards leasing - primarily because the market and technology are changing rapidly and the Bolt and it's longevity are unproven.
I have an i3 that's about to come off of "lease" (it's the owners choice thing from BMW FS). They basically told me I had two choices: return the car as agreed, or pay the balloon payment as agreed. They said they could not negotiate.DucRider said:
Not sure what was going on with your Volt lease quote, but GM (actually the dealer) always get the $7500. It would be the finance company trying to get additional money by tacking it on to the residual. This is a questionable tactic at best since such a small percentage of leases are converted to purchases. But I guess if even a few do, that's money in the finance companies pocket. As you said, the payments are they same whether it reduces the cap cost or increases the residual.GetOffYourGas said:
Why GM and the dealer always get the benefit of the $7500 for the tax credit - whether leased or purchased outright
GM sells the car the dealer for "Invoice" price (we'll ignore holdback, volume incentives, advertising $, etc)
Dealer sells the car to the finance company/bank (usually Ally Bank for GM at that time) at MSRP or whatever price is negotiated.
Finance company leases/rents the vehicle to you and gets the $7500 Federal Tax Credit. Or buyer purchases/finances the car and takes the Tax Credit.
The terms of your lease should include a capitalized cost reduction for the Federal Tax Credit. When I was looking at the Spark EV when it first came out, Ally Bank (dealer financing) was only giving $3,750 as a cap cost reduction. The rest was used for a below market money factor and likely some as "insurance" on their residual calculation (IIRC it was about 43%?). This was in late 2013.
Financing a car purchase by leasing is usually more expensive (see post above), but sometimes - if the bank gets it wrong - you can come out ahead that way. The manufacturer and dealer get their money up front. And yes, sometimes the finance company is owned by the manufacturer. Ally bank is the former GMAC, but GM is now running most of their financing thru General Motors Financial Company (they bought a sub-prime lender and renamed it).
It pays to read the lease and do your homework. A reputable dealer will be happy to give you a lease quote with all the terms laid out.
Is this the dealer telling you this? Or the finance company?Schnort said:
And like I said, there is no guarantee that you will be able to negotiate a lower purchase price. And if IIRC, the "owners choice" financing was structured differently than a traditional lease, but don't remember the details. What is the balloon payment? Retail (asking price) on used i3's (BEV) seems to be about $20-22K in Oregon.
If it's much more than that, return it and buy a used one? Or maybe the same one back from the dealer
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